Canon EOS R5 / R6 overheating discussion all in one place

[TSV]

Just realized that, if by mistake you leave your camera bag in your trunk (car) for just an hour in summer... you would not even be able to shoot in HQ or 8K... Well done Canon! In Japan now it is over 29c everyday and we are still in the rainy season... Can’t imagine shooting with that in a few weeks

[Snowfun]

Someone has discovered a use for the R5:

 

[Avenger 2.0]

15 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Can't overheating be somewhat fixed in firmware? I believe Sony had this problem with several of their cameras. It might not be "safe", but it might be cheaper to repair the ones that break than recall the whole lot and go back to the drawing board.

You can always stretch the safety limits. But your R5/R6 might die or break more quickly (like the 70D motherboards that fried from heat). 

[Avenger 2.0]

1 hour ago, PabloB said:

Tony and Chelsea Nothrup did a wildlife shoot of just stills and the battery died in an hour! The R5 is DOA

Looks like professionals need a 5D V after all. The Canon mirrorless aren't yet ready for professional use!

[Avenger 2.0]

https://www.canonrumors.com/patent-active-cooling-adapter-for-the-rf-mount/

Sneaky Canon 🤣  Create an issue that doesn't need to exist and then sell the solution separately.

[John Matthews]

6 minutes ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

You can always stretch the safety limits. But your R5/R6 might die or break more quickly (like the 70D motherboards that fried from heat). 

I was just saying that it might be cheaper to stretch the limits and fix the ones that break rather than recall everything.

[Nezza]

Canon's tag line for the R5 is 'Professional mirrorless redefined'.

There's no way a pro could use it for video, imagine using it for wedding work:

"I now pronounce you man and w..."

"Sorry, can you stop and come back in two hours, I need to find a fridge."

 

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, Django said:

However it apparently does heat it up enough that the 8K/HQ modes can’t operate after some point.

Please don't keep saying that. It seems almost articulated to suggest that the non 8k or non HQ modes have no issues with heat management. Which is patently false. The camera heats up, when switched on, regardless of whether you shoot 8k, 4k or HQ, or just shoot  photos or don't even shoot anything on it. That's also what Gerald Undone corroborates.

Claiming it to be untrue or saying it can be fixed by firmware, or hoping for a miracle that Canon installs a micro aircon inside the camera is just ludicrous.

The majority of the people here are or have been Panasonic and M43 users. But when Panasonic created that VLogging G100, it was called out, for the absolute rubbish that it is. Except for the audio, which they've gotten from Nokia, it doesn't have much else going for it. To say that camera is going to become perfect for VLogging with a Firmware update is beyond ignorant.

You reaction means you're way more devastated than the entire Canon design team, and many people whose heads are going to be rolling soon.

There are no perfect cameras. And the A7siii is also releasing tomorrow. So you have both the choice of an apparently good video shooter releasing tomorrow, and the worldly wisdom of knowing that that too, like every camera before it, won't be perfect. 

[sanveer]

4 hours ago, Django said:

As a long time Canon shooter I was really hoping R5 was going to be the one.

I know get it. 

[wolf33d]

4 hours ago, Django said:

I have to admit I’m pretty gutted by that. As a long time Canon shooter I was really hoping R5 was going to be the one.

But in no way can I trust a camera that will not even shoot a second of over sampled 4K video after an hour of shooting stills. That’s just utterly ridiculous.

Hopefully Canon can fix that in firmware because I think that’s going to be a deal breaker for a lot of people! 

I have to admit I was fine with recording only 15 min STRAIGHT of 4K120p, but not being able to record 1sec after 1 hour shooting still, or not being able to record more than 15 x 1min clips in a single day becomes from « ok I’ll deal with it » to « what the actual fuck?? » 

 

[Andrew Reid]

15 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

Its also a journalism scandal.. among all those talking heads and early hands on public figures, only one guy tested it as a hybrid camera, which means combination of still and video shooting, in real world situation, and reporting any abnormal behavior of the device and answering people's questions with clear answers, politely. 

I hope it shines a light on how compromised journalism is in the camera industry.

[Andrew Reid]

7 hours ago, Mikelama said:

Maybe no one else is making a camera with these specs because they don’t want to damage their own reputation by shipping a camera that so readily bricks when shooting or merely even switching to video.  One user, Gerald Undone, mentions that he merely shot about 30-40 pics for an hour in 30 deg heat, and then he switched to video and immediately got an overheating warning.  That’s pathetic.  And I can appreciate why Andrew Reid is claiming they’re opening themselves up to Lawsuits and similar based on false advertising.  There going to take a beating with consumer confidence too.  Lol, they’re already losing confidence from this.   And it’s just the Beginning.

Absolutely right.

Remember the Samsung NX1. The sensor was allegedly capable of 4K 240fps in the lab, even in 2014. They could have chosen to implement 4K/60p or even 4k/120p with a faster processor, but the technology simply wasn't there, and Samsung didn't want to use RED style active cooling fan, vents, radiators, to increase the size and weight and cost of a $1500 hybrid camera. It had decent passive heat management and efficient processors for the time, and important thing - reliability.

Canon must be seen to banish the perception that their technology lags behind.

8K RAW badge on the box at all costs.

I do appreciate an 8K full pixel readout on a 45 megapixel full frame sensor but it must be done in a way that doesn't compromise reliability.

Canon felt it would be ok to compromise that and push pros onto Cinema EOS cameras at an even higher cost and higher margin, in my opinion.

It smacks of a cynical conspiracy.

The reliable limits of their technology make 2015 standard A7R II spec pixel binned 4K/30p possible.

They have gone way past the limits of their own technology and created a hand grenade.

If they get sued, they deserve it 100%.

7 hours ago, Mikelama said:

Apple got sued and settled a class action for iPhone batteries merely not lasting well after a couple years.   And Apple also replaced batteries at a Large discount.  This issue seems so much worse than that and it affects brand new cameras.  

Yes, consumer groups will have a field day with the advertising claims of the EOS R5 and R6.

And quite rightly too.

Not everybody reads EOSHD or follows Gerald Undone. A lot of pre-orders went in, before even basic overheating timings were made available. Some people don't even research cameras very deeply on the internet, they are attached to a brand, walk into a shop, see the latest flagship from their favourite brand, and make the decision on the spot. Then they realise it isn't as advertised.

I can't imagine Apple, Samsung, Google getting away with that in phone market?

So why does Canon think this is different...

[Django]

21 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Please don't keep saying that. It seems almost articulated to suggest that the non 8k or non HQ modes have no issues with heat management. Which is patently false. The camera heats up, when switched on, regardless of whether you shoot 8k, 4k or HQ, or just shoot  photos or don't even shoot anything on it. That's also what Gerald Undone corroborates.

Claiming it to be untrue or saying it can be fixed by firmware, or hoping for a miracle that Canon installs a micro aircon inside the camera is just ludicrous.

The majority of the people here are or have been Panasonic and M43 users. But when Panasonic created that VLogging G100, it was called out, for the absolute rubbish that it is. Except for the audio, which they've gotten from Nokia, it doesn't have much else going for it. To say that camera is going to become perfect for VLogging with a Firmware update is beyond ignorant.

You reaction means you're way more devastated than the entire Canon design team, and many people whose heads are going to be rolling soon.

There are no perfect cameras. And the A7siii is also releasing tomorrow. So you have both the choice of an apparently good video shooter releasing tomorrow, and the worldly wisdom of knowing that that too, like every camera before it, won't be perfect. 

So basically you're saying it's ok for Panasonic users to bash Canon in this thread, however you're not ok with actual Canon users being disappointed by these recent developments and hope for a fix? That to me is ludicrous.

You're also completely twisting my words, letting your own bias cloud your judgement. Total fanboy reaction.

I'm the first to admit that the latest findings by Gerald Undone is a total deal breaker for me, and I'm sure many others.

I was sort of ok with the initial Canon R5 overheat chart, however absolutely NOT with the camera locking 8K/HQ modes after 1 hour of stills or just regular standby.

All I'm saying is that IF this carries through to production units OR Canon somehow doesn't fix that behaviour, there is going to be a massive uproar. I will be the first not to support this camera. Mark my words.

I'm also well aware of the A7S3 release tomorrow, and as I'm also a Sony/FS7 owner and will be closely monitoring what that camera offers and it's potential caveats (which I hope don't include any overheating).

 

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, Django said:

Taking stills and shooting in pixel-binned 4K shouldn’t brick the camera.

However it apparently does heat it up enough that the 8K/HQ modes can’t operate after some point.

This behavior seems odd and perhaps a pre-production issue. Which is why I suggested there is perhaps a slim chance Canon fixes that particular issue in firmware.

Not trying to defend Canon, if they aren’t able to fix that then it’s going to be a deal breaker for many, including myself.

Imagine you get a great opportunity to film a music video, could be a career turning point. You bring the EOS R5 and half the video ends up with completely different image quality than the other half, because you're forced to change modes!

[Django]

^ Yeah with the current situation I would never use an R5 on such a project. Again total deal breaker.

[Andrew Reid]

On 7/25/2020 at 7:24 PM, wolf33d said:

The exemples in your article are absolutely pointless. You say the overheating scandale is like if a car would overheat and stops on the highway so you compare features that exist in any competition product for dozens of year (a car going on the highway, all cars can do that) with a ground breaking features of the R5 that exist nowhere on the market. No camera this size and price in the world today shoots 4K120P full frame 10 bit 422. It’s unheard off.
A7RIV, the Sony flagship, does not overheat because its only video mode is the R5 normal 4K mode, which doesn’t overheat at all, yet on top the Canon has 10 bits and still beats BY FAR the A7RIV with just the non overheating normal 4K mode (10 bits, better ibis, better colors, better ergonomics). 
So to take your exemple, it’s like having the best car on the market on most points, and have an extra bonus boost mode that gives you 0-100kmh in one second but only usable for 20min. 
Guess what? It exists and it’s called Ludicrous mode on tesla, a $20K option and that overheats the car after a few accelerations.... Nobody sued Tesla and people paid for that option on the Model S.

 

37 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

I have to admit I was fine with recording only 15 min STRAIGHT of 4K120p, but not being able to record 1sec after 1 hour shooting still, or not being able to record more than 15 x 1min clips in a single day becomes from « ok I’ll deal with it » to « what the actual fuck?? » 

 

Looks like somebody is flip flopping.

Oversampled 4K 24p is a feature that exists in the competition, often for up to one quarter of the price of the EOS R5, and half the price of an EOS R6.

Take the EOS R6 overheating as an example. It shoots 4K from a 5K sensor readout.

Competitor:

Panasonic S1 4K from 6K sensor readout, $2000, full frame, 10bit codec and V-LOG

No fan or vents. Weather sealed.

So how come that is able to do it but the EOS R6 isn't.

Maybe the Canon autofocus is to blame?! 😂 Is that going to be your next excuse.

Sony A7 III oversampled from 6K.

Sony A9 oversampled from 6K.

Older crop sensor cameras have done oversampling for years. Smaller sensor but bigger data rate than EOS R6.

X-T3 4K from 6K sensor readout

GH5 4K from 5.5K sensor readout

NX1 4K from 7K sensor... And that was in 2014!!

And it doesn't matter if the EOS R5 has a 'groundbreaking feature not available anywhere else' if it doesn't work when you try to use it! HELLO?!

I can claim my car does 200mph but if it blows up when it goes past 120 then it isn't much use is it??

So yes 4K/120p is all very well but if the camera is sitting there blinking with an error and refusing to record it during a shoot of upmost mission criticalness, it's worse than not even having it because it ruins the shoot. You cannot depend on it. You may bring it on a shoot for that. You may NEED the slow mo shot and plan for it. Write it into a script even. Then when it comes to the crunch the camera lets you down. It's a complete scandal. And yes it is exactly the same as needing to get somewhere in a car, but it doesn't arrive at the destination.

"A7RIV, the Sony flagship, does not overheat because its only video mode is the R5 normal 4K mode"

The A7S III should be the one you compare it to as that's the hybrid camera like the EOS R5, which shoots 10bit 4K 120p, that feature you claim nobody else has 😂

"It’s like having the best car on the market on most points, and have an extra bonus boost mode that gives you 0-100kmh in one second but only usable for 20min."

😂

It isn't 20 minutes!!

It is in many cases 0 minutes. It is a variable and almost random impossible to anticipate cut off in the middle of a shot.

No professional or artist or enthusiast can possibly tolerate it.

The best car on the market is not one that goes 200mph sometimes and 0mph most of the time, refusing to start on the driveway.

That car is in fact a bag of garbage that most people would return to the dealer after a week.

And it will be the same with the R5 and R6 too.

[ND64]

4 hours ago, sanveer said:

As long as the camera is on, it is overheating

Yea seems the CPU has some leakage issue at idle. 

[Video Hummus]

GH5 5.5K To 4K oversample in a smaller body, with IBIS mechanism, no external fans, unlimited recording workhorse.

S1 the same.

Z6 the same.

Canon fucked up.

Canon EOS R, mirrorless redef...overheated! shutting down.

Its also possible this is all an imposed limitation. Just like their stupid missing 24p the technology wasn’t there bullshit. People go bananas and a firmware comes out and we get our 24p. 

[Rinad Amir]

Canon needs R5 mii stack🤭 in S1H style body problem solved

[Nezza]

Going forwards all of Peter Mckinnon's videos will be outdoors in a strong breeze. He's going to spend the next three years freezing his tits off.