Canon EOS R5 / R6 overheating discussion all in one place

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, Enjay said:

Funny how this issue gets so much attention, but literally nobody complains about Canon charging 10% higher netto prices in the EUR/GBP zone compared to Yen/US$. They started that with the 5D 4.

THAT is what kept me from buying the R5.

Third party lens manufacturers like Sigma or Tamron actually have lower netto prices for many lenses here, it cannot be a general thing.

 

I for one am not complaining about that because I don't live there, but could there be other reasons for the discrepancy?  Maybe the taxes are higher, maybe it simply costs more to ship there, maybe the currency fluctuates more so they added some padding to the pricing; people get charged differently all over the world, at the end of the day you either decide it is worth what the vendor is asking or you decide to go with another product. Honestly I would gladly pay 10% more in USD than what Canon is currently charging for the R5 and R6 if they did not overheat.

Here in the US vendors even charge differently based on zip code. I have seen instances where Dell asked a price for a laptop from my home PC because they detected my location, then I pull up the same laptop on my cell phone which made it look like I was somewhere else a few hundred miles away and there was more than a 10% difference in price. There's even studies showing that if you use an iPhone on certain vendor websites they will show you a higher price than if you use an Android because they think if you can afford an iPhone you will pay more.

 

My bank really pissed me off once because I saw a great credit card offer on my cell phone but when I called to sign up they said it was not applicable to my state and I must have seen the ad by mistake. It's very annoying but it is just the reality we live in; targeted pricing is real, vendors will charge whatever they think the local population is willing to pay.

[anonim]

1 hour ago, Enjay said:

Funny how this issue gets so much attention, but literally nobody complains about Canon charging 10% higher netto prices in the EUR/GBP zone compared to Yen/US$. They started that with the 5D 4.

THAT is what kept me from buying the R5.

Third party lens manufacturers like Sigma or Tamron actually have lower netto prices for many lenses here, it cannot be a general thing.

 

If it could be some sort of consolation, strangely legal grаy market in UK (I mean, there's no any prohibition or punish for openly advertising offers) always has even better prices than in USA (even with ok warranty - I checked). Actually, I enjoyed buying there - I'm for guerrilla side of the world and type of soul, so one way more to stay in condition 🙂

[Emanuel]

When their craft feed their families, some features can be night or day in order to succeed ;- ]

[newfoundmass]

2 hours ago, gingercat said:

Lol just a bit bewildered by all the whining and hysteria because a certain product doesn't meet expectations. Probably forums on toasters that have the same issue.

I'm bewildered by someone playing devil's advocate for a camera that can overheat in photo mode. 

No, not every camera is made for me, but I'd still like to see that the camera, ya know, works as advertised. 

[Nezza]

12 hours ago, Emanuel said:

I just don't like to see anonymous aliases to amuse themselves to bash Canon.

Nah, you and the other canboys just don't like any *entirely valid* criticism of Canon. Canon has made their biggest product launch gaff in recent times and canboys can't bare their beloved Canon being held to account for what Canon has failed to deliver.

Meanwhile consumers are spending thousands of their hard earned on products that aren't fit for purpose. But don't bash beloved Canon - that's the real issue here!

Quote

One thing is fair criticism, the other one is without previous experience with a tool starting to guess about it. 

Guess about it? Every single review (even Peter McCanon's) mentions the overheating to some degree. It's entirely fair to criticise Canon for what is a very evident and serious problem. The idea you can't comment unless you physically own an R5 is laughable. It's just canboys that wan't to stop anything negative being said about their beloved.

Quote

And I see people without the necessary filmmaking experience in certain styles/segments of our craft to negatively/improperly infer this R5/R6 or this or that workaround won't work out. WOW Without ever testing it!

You have no idea what experience posters here have in filmmaking. None. Also, the basic laws of thermal dynamics are not altered by having IMDB credits.

[Nezza]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

I'm bewildered by someone playing devil's advocate for a camera that can overheat in photo mode. 

Incredible isn't it. First the camera is shown to fail for video and now for stills but any criticism is 'whining'.

This has to be one of the worst products for reliability Canon has ever released and it'll be the end users who suffer after spending thousands - but don't criticise Canon!

Canboys at their very worst. 

[Avenger 2.0]

I think they pushed technology too far this time. It's a lot of experimental technology (8k, ibis, ...) into a professional body. Normally they release that technology first into consumer products (like 70d dpaf) to see if it works long time, and then move it to their more professional products (5d4, 1d x, etc). Now they felt confident they could do directly into the professional series and they created an unreliable replacement for their 5D4. I think professionals will stay another cycle with their DSLR now and if they are smart they will release a 5D5 to not completely loose those customers.

[UncleBobsPhotography]

13 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I don't understand the adapter either....so you will basically be pulling dust directly from outside of the camera and blowing it directly on the sensor, that sounds like a horrible idea. The S1H seems to be the only camera that truly gets the cooling situation and even it didn't try to do 8K, 4K120, or full sensor readout 4K60.

Maybe that's the reason why it's only a patent and not a product. I wouldn't want to blow air on the sensor unless there is a HEPA filter in there, which can't be very practical.

13 hours ago, Nezza said:

Then I'd suggest you'd be best placed not to comment on issues relating to engineering. 

There's reports now that even stills shooting causes it to overheat - nothing to do with video.

 

13 hours ago, Nezza said:

And I see someone who fundamentally doesn't understand hardware design. That trumps your IMDB credits in this department.
 

Practical engineering is often just logic, and logical arguments should trump academic degrees. A 6 hour cooldown period isn't reasonable, so either there was a flaw in the testing method or in the firmware. 

The report of overheating during stills shooting is worrisome, but if that was the result of shooting 20 fps with the electronic shutter, then that could be as stressing as 8k raw. A better solution would have been if the camera capped the shooting rate to 3-5 fps and automatically turned on overheat protection in time so as to never have to stop shooting completely.

I believe the camera will fulfill my needs, excellent photos, shorter 4kHQ/8kRAW clips and extended 4kCrop shoots. If workarounds are able to extend the shooting limits of 4kHQ/60p/120p then that's a welcoming addition and something I would want to try out.

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

I think they pushed technology too far this time. It's a lot of experimental technology (8k, ibis, ...) into a professional body. Normally they release that technology first into consumer products (like 70d dpaf) to see if it works long time, and then move it to their more professional products (5d4, 1d x, etc). Now they felt confident they could do directly into the professional series and they created an unreliable replacement for their 5D4. I think professionals will stay another cycle with their DSLR now and if they are smart they will release a 5D5 to not completely loose those customers.

I for one feel like my 5DIV will last me for years to come if Canon keeps going at this rate. The EOS R with the fn bar and one card slot was a joke, the R5 and R6 are not fit for purpose in my book, and my 5DIV still takes fantastic pictures.  Thanks to Canon I am now at least 2yrs away from getting another camera.

[ade towell]

There are other makers of camera...

[Avenger 2.0]

39 minutes ago, ade towell said:

There are other makers of camera...

Not really the time in the current covid crisis to jump camera maker and buy besides the body, all new lenses and flashes.

[herein2020]

45 minutes ago, ade towell said:

There are other makers of camera...

What other camera maker makes a product so good that it's worth starting over with my lenses, new bodies, etc? I'm not one of these people you read about that changes camera systems more often than people change clothes. I don't need the latest flashiest gear to create footage that my clients will pay for. My 5DIV is already perfect for photography, my C200 is already perfect for long form video work, the only thing I wanted was the R6 to replace my GH5 due to AF, color science, and to better match the C200 as a B cam.....since it clearly can't do what I need it to do I'm willing to continue dealing with the GH5's shortcomings; it is not worth it to me to spend money only to have to deal with a new system's shortcomings.

As bad as I might talk about the GH5, when you work within it's limitations it really is a fantastic camera, rock solid reliable, it isn't too hard to match the C200 if you shoot in Cinelike-D and mirror the C200's WB and exposure, and it will run for hours per battery. Spending thousands on an A7SIII or S1H just to get better highlight rolloff, slightly better color science, and better AF (A7SIII) isn't worth it, not to mention yet another lens system.

  

4 minutes ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Not really the time in the current covid crisis to jump camera maker and buy besides the body, all new lenses and flashes.

You beat me to it....

[ade towell]

7 minutes ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Not really the time in the current covid crisis to jump camera maker and buy besides the body, all new lenses and flashes.

I know I was being slightly facetious although once the penny eventually dropped (took nearly 8 years) and I realised Canon were not going to give me what I want (at least in a hybrid camera), it became quite liberating and much less frustrating to invest in a company who seem to be happier to give what many of us want without the good old cripple hammer. Am still kicking myself that it took me so long to work this out

[Nezza]

It's hugely frustrating because the R6 would have been a massive seller for Canon had they got it right.

This (would) have been the camera that many many people that want full frame for stills and video would need at that price point.

The AF, screen, handling etc etc all excellent. Yet the show stopping issue scuppers it all. 

Massive missed opportunity by Canon.

[herein2020]

3 minutes ago, ade towell said:

I know I was being slightly facetious although once the penny eventually dropped (took nearly 8 years) and I realised Canon were not going to give me what I want (at least in a hybrid camera), it became quite liberating and much less frustrating to invest in a company who seem to be happier to give what many of us want without the good old cripple hammer. Am still kicking myself that it took me so long to work this out

Who did you go with? Sony? I still feel like no camera maker is putting out a hybrid that I want. Panasonic is putting out fantastic video cameras in a mirrorless body but terrible AF and almost no one takes their photography features seriously, Sony just feels terrible to me (plasticky buttons, cheap feeling ergonomics, terrible menu system, proprietary accessories, inadequate weather sealing, expensive lenses, etc.), and Nikon isn't even on my radar with their Z6 and Z7.

[ade towell]

Fuji. I don't need full frame and I do more video than photography so other peoples needs will be different. Still prefer its colours to any of the new contenders and the AF in video is good enough for my occasional use

Was Panasonic before then, these 2 companies I feel try hardest not to disappoint and give the user as much as they can without as much holding back. Nikon may get there too with the Z6s, am looking forward to see what improvements they bring

[herein2020]

12 minutes ago, Nezza said:

It's hugely frustrating because the R6 would have been a massive seller for Canon had they got it right.

This (would) have been the camera that many many people that want full frame for stills and video would need at that price point.

The AF, screen, handling etc etc all excellent. Yet the show stopping issue scuppers it all. 

Massive missed opportunity by Canon.

I still had a few issues with its specs even before the overheating fiasco; 30min limit on video recording this is ridiculous in 2020, no dual slot recording this has been my pet peeve for a long time with most Canon cameras, and no XLR module; I love my GH5's XLR module, it makes matching it up with the C200 so easy and all of my audio gear is XLR.

But I think I would have been willing to give those things up if it had lived up to the marketing hype in every other way.

[Nezza]

9 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

I still had a few issues with its specs even before the overheating fiasco; 30min limit on video recording this is ridiculous in 2020, no dual slot recording this has been my pet peeve for a long time with most Canon cameras, and no XLR module; I love my GH5's XLR module, it makes matching it up with the C200 so easy and all of my audio gear is XLR.

But I think I would have been willing to give those things up if it had lived up to the marketing hype in every other way.

You never get 100% of what you want, there's always compromises, but I think for most people it was aimed at - it was enough.

Except of course it wasn't in one huge show stopping regard.

[Enjay]

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I'm bewildered by someone playing devil's advocate for a camera that can overheat in photo mode.

Says who? What from I read, you can take photos AND use the 1080 & cropped / non-HQ 4K modes (that are still way better than compressed to death YT videos) all day. Anything else especially concerning photos would be a first, and a huge failure.

4K+ streaming is still a joke anyway, all we are seeing is the higher bitrate services reserve. I have an interface traffic graph running at all times on my PC acting as a router, the bitrates are laughable. You could upconvert by at least one resolution step and probably no one would notice..

I guess the mistake Canon made was giving the samples out primarily to a vocal minority of videographers. There are real issues like a fixed viewfinder eyepiece that cannot be replaced by the magnifying version I was using for more than 11 years. Or the fact that the ergonomics are limited for left-eyed shooters (face obstructs access to some controls on these smaller camera bodies). Or baked RAW files below ISO800 with baseline noise reduction applied. Or the huge issue that DPAF cannot sense horizontal detail at all.

I generally do not watch video "reviews" because reading is 3x faster and I cannot stand listening to someone reading his text at "single speed", but I bet not a single one of these YTers has addressed anything of this.

 

[Yurolov]

the non-hq mode is softer than even the eos r which is already soft to begin with. it is really not the best. but if you are just uploading vids to youtube then no one will notice unless it is camera nerds pixel-peeping. People will notice the ibis, color and autofocus more than sharpness. So maybe it is passable for low quality content online. 

the problem is you have to pay $4500!!! for that privilege. Helll noooooo!!!!

But if you are rich or whatever and dont care about pure image quality then the other perks of the camera would make it a joy to use over the other offerings. The ibis on this camera is insane even for m43 standards. 

So i see rich people buying this camera (who don't know or care about the quality difference in video i.e. non-pros), while videographers purchase the a7siii and s1h.      

Meanwhile, the r6 is just an abortion. I don't know who would pay that much to buy something that can't even shoot in 4k these days.