ATEM Mini Pro ISO Version

[BTM_Pix]

Quite bold of BM to be releasing a new version of the ATEM Mini Pro when they have barely delivered any of the current one but here we are.

As the name suggests, this new one lets you do ISO recordings of each individual camera, audio track as well as the master tracks to a single USB drive.

It then saves your live cuts and all of those recordings (and other media such as overlays and titles etc) to a project that you import straight into DaVinci Resolve onto a timeline for further tweaking.

If you are using BM Pocket cameras then they can be recording BRAW internally at the same time and Resolve has a new function to swap these as the source tracks in that edit with a single click.

With the addition of the ISO tracks this is now some serious capability not just for straight live to air/net productions but also for anyone doing any multi-camera production that you would want to have post edit control of like a live performance recording, sports game, YouTube tutorial etc or even a low budget soap opera !

The developments that BM have been up to with the ATEM Mini series is probably not, on the surface, of that much interest to a lot of people on here but it is very innovative and is a real showcase of their end to end pipeline.

Using an ATEM Mini, the Pocket 4K/6K cameras are turned into fully fledged studio cameras with remote control of on board colour correction and automatic tally functions but without losing their ability to simultaneously still be recording BRAW cine formats internally.

So you can simultaneously do a live production in HD, use its built in encoder to stream live to the internet, hand off a USB stick with a video of the ready cut version to a client, record each individual track for easy post refinement of the mix and still retain the option to use 4K or 6K RAW master versions of those tracks to create a higher resolution finessed version with a single click.

A four camera system that can do all of that for a total of under £6K or £9K depending on whether you go with 4K or 6K is arguably as revolutionary as any of their camera releases.

I can also see it having a lot more applications in the "new normal" and offering some potential new opportunities to anyone who is already invested in Pocket4K/6K cameras.

The bonus is it is a new product launch that can be discussed without reference to thermometers and stop watches 😉 

 

[Anaconda_]

I watched this and was super impressed. It's not a product I'd buy, its not for the type of work I do, but it's clearly very powerful and opens multi-cam shoots up to basically anybody. Having all of the source media in a pre-made project is incredible. The fact you can open and use that product on any computer using free software is even more amazing. 

[Emanuel]

Absolutely. Blackmagic is the most valuable brand ever in the history of the medium IMO.

And we are not exactly lovers... : D

[EphraimP]

I just saw this amazing new development of the ATEM...

 

and was a bit bummed out by it. Why? Because I purchased the Pro a few months back and would really love the ISO feature. I've produced several livestream concerts with it and, while have a recording of the program feed is nice and you can record to each camera's cards as well, it would be so much more practical for a post production workflow to have the capabilities that the Pro ISO has. It's easy to forget to hit record on an camera if you're doing a multi-cam setup as one person. 

I wonder what, if any, hardware changes have been made to the Pro to add the ISO capabilities. It really sounds to me like firmware updates, but what do I know. I understand that, seeing as this isn't a simple bug fix or small upgrade like adding audio delay, Blackmagic would want to charge more to recoup its development costs and make a profit. I'd certainly be willing to cough to add these features if it was possible. 

 

[MurtlandPhoto]

I have to admit I'm a littleeeeeee bit salty over this new ISO version. I definitely feels like a feature they could have thought to add to the Pro at the time of launch. Getting too segmented with this weird release schedule is a way to start pissing people off. This should have been put out in tandem with the Pro.

[BTM_Pix]

14 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I watched this and was super impressed. It's not a product I'd buy, its not for the type of work I do, but it's clearly very powerful and opens multi-cam shoots up to basically anybody. Having all of the source media in a pre-made project is incredible. The fact you can open and use that product on any computer using free software is even more amazing. 

Yeah, I'm interested to see where they could go with it in terms of being able to replay the multitrack ISO recordings on the control surface itself like it is a music portastudio so you can re-do the cuts before putting the project file into the computer to do a final tweak and online it as its a lot more tactile and responsive that way.

I think this thing has the potential to be a lot more than just a live tool.

 

[BTM_Pix]

18 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

I just saw this amazing new development of the ATEM...and was a bit bummed out by it. Why? Because I purchased the Pro a few months back and would really love the ISO feature. I've produced several livestream concerts with it and, while have a recording of the program feed is nice and you can record to each camera's cards as well, it would be so much more practical for a post production workflow to have the capabilities that the Pro ISO has. It's easy to forget to hit record on an camera if you're doing a multi-cam setup as one person. 

 

17 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

I have to admit I'm a littleeeeeee bit salty over this new ISO version. I definitely feels like a feature they could have thought to add to the Pro at the time of launch. Getting too segmented with this weird release schedule is a way to start pissing people off. This should have been put out in tandem with the Pro.

I feel your pain over this as it is has come with almost indecent haste after the Mini Pro.

It certainly does feel like there has been a "hang on, maybe we could add...." moment post launch of the Mini Pro that they could have had prior to it.

I think both products are valid as not everyone needs the ISO facility and the multi-view and master recording of the Mini Pro was an upgrade worth having over the original Mini.

But it just doesn't sit right that the two pro variants couldn't have been announced at the same.

This morning I was doing my usual (fruitless) check stock scouring for the Mini Pro so I've really dodged a bullet in one respect but if they don't get this new one in stock until they've cleared deliveries of the Mini Pro then my new product for ATEMs is just getting pushed further back again as I have to have this one now to test it on.

And it will cost me more money.

So, swings and roundabouts for me too, I suppose.

[EphraimP]

19 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

I feel your pain over this as it is has come with almost indecent haste after the Mini Pro.

It certainly does feel like there has been a "hang on, maybe we could add...." moment post launch of the Mini Pro that they could have had prior to it.

I think both products are valid as not everyone needs the ISO facility and the multi-view and master recording of the Mini Pro was an upgrade worth having over the original Mini.

But it just doesn't sit right that the two pro variants couldn't have been announced at the same.

This morning I was doing my usual (fruitless) check stock scouring for the Mini Pro so I've really dodged a bullet in one respect but if they don't get this new one in stock until they've cleared deliveries of the Mini Pro then my new product for ATEMs is just getting pushed further back again as I have to have this one now to test it on.

And it will cost me more money.

So, swings and roundabouts for me too, I suppose.

Yeah, it's been ridiculous how hard it has been to get a Mini Pro, or even a Mini. I got really luck in that respect. When I landed the jobs to fund the purchase and had to get one right away, I pre-ordered from B & H, which had a lead time that was acceptable. Then I found a Amazon seller with a few in stock, so I ordered from them and probably secured the last one they had in stock. I had to pay extra shipping, but it got to me before B & H even had them in stock. I thought about keeping the B & H order and selling it on Ebay, because I'd seen them going for as much As $900, but decided against it. Hopefully I got some good karma points for letting someone else get it at the regular price before B & H went out of stock again.

I get that the ISO features aren't necessary for everyone. Like I said, I'd pay the upgrade if it was possible. If you only used in to remaster one job, it would totally be worth it.

[MurtlandPhoto]

18 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

It certainly does feel like there has been a "hang on, maybe we could add...." moment post launch of the Mini Pro that they could have had prior to it.

I think both products are valid as not everyone needs the ISO facility and the multi-view and master recording of the Mini Pro was an upgrade worth having over the original Mini.

But it just doesn't sit right that the two pro variants couldn't have been announced at the same.

I feel I'm stuck. I ordered Pro and waited about 6 weeks for delivery. I actually built a little segment of my business around the functionality it gave me. Now, the ISO version presents me with a super useful and sought after feature I've wanted since I got the Pro, but long after I could return the Pro. Also, I can't really even dump the Pro in favor of ordering the ISO since I need it for my work now. 

Choice is great. I just wish I had this choice when I ordered the Pro! 

[Santoso]

This is awesome! Exactly the affordable product/solution I’ve been waiting for. I’ll admit that I love my Sonys, but Blackmagic is the leader of innovation right now. 

[A_Urquhart]

This looks great but BMD really need to start implementing NDI and SRT. Especially in times like we are in now, more and more productions need remote contributors. NDI and SRT would really open up a world of possibilities.

 

[BTM_Pix]

28 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

This looks great but BMD really need to start implementing NDI and SRT. Especially in times like we are in now, more and more productions need remote contributors. NDI and SRT would really open up a world of possibilities.

 

Its nowhere near as comprehensive or flexible as NDI but the Streaming Bridge product that they also announced today is a pretty neat way to repurpose the network output of ATEM Minis and link them across local networks and the internet.

Much cheaper than NDI and might be enough for a lot of people's needs in the applications that ATEM Mini is being used.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/atem-streaming-bridge-announced-by-blackmagic-design/

[EphraimP]

5 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its nowhere near as comprehensive or flexible as NDI but the Streaming Bridge product that they also announced today is a pretty neat way to repurpose the network output of ATEM Minis and link them across local networks and the internet.

Much cheaper than NDI and might be enough for a lot of people's needs in the applications that ATEM Mini is being used.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/atem-streaming-bridge-announced-by-blackmagic-design/

Having no broadcast experience, I'm not getting what the advantage of this is to a livestream. 

[BTM_Pix]

12 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

Having no broadcast experience, I'm not getting what the advantage of this is to a livestream. 

Its the linking of different sites aspect of it thats the most interesting.

So a central control room can be pulling in multi camera feeds into their ATEM from different places in the same building or from different sites all over the world.

In a YouTube live broadcast situation for example, EOSHD might be the central host and is pulling in guest feeds from different contributors, each of which can be switching their own content locally.

It makes for a more dynamic programme obviously than having the remote guests just being a single angle feed.

All of that can be done anyway with existing outboard gear but the Streaming Bridge takes the network feed from each ATEM natively so doesn't require additional encoding equipment and setup process.

If you rewind the YouTube stream to the start there is a more in depth presentation of it prior to the ATEM part.

[EphraimP]

2 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its the linking of different sites aspect of it thats the most interesting.

So a central control room can be pulling in multi camera feeds into their ATEM from different places in the same building or from different sites all over the world.

In a YouTube live broadcast situation for example, EOSHD might be the central host and is pulling in guest feeds from different contributors, each of which can be switching their own content locally.

It makes for a more dynamic programme obviously than having the remote guests just being a single angle feed.

All of that can be done anyway with existing outboard gear but the Streaming Bridge takes the network feed from each ATEM natively so doesn't require additional encoding equipment and setup process.

If you rewind the YouTube stream to the start there is a more in depth presentation of it prior to the ATEM part.

I haven't watched the YouTube. Sounds like what you are saying is that you can use this link to route a remote ATEM into your main ATEM, taking up a HDMI in on the "studio ATEM", without a second party webservice to host the remote ATEM stream. I can see how that would be helpful to some productions.

What I'm looking into right now is a solution for livestreaming from locations that don't have an ethernet network with decent bandwidth for uploading. I've found that your typical (in the US anyway) 5Mpbs upload speed is dicey at best for a multicam stream. It looks like cellular bonding encoder/modem  are the way to go, but they are pretty expensive. Since the ATEM is already an encoder, I'd love to find a modem only solution that would work.

[Anaconda_]

I wonder if they could add a firmware update to the none ISO version to give users the project file. 
 

Allow the operator the option to record the master file or record the live inputs as separate clips with 2 second handles or something?

then you can still fine tune the cuts in post and it doesn’t sound like all that much more data to pass through the system to your SSD.

I have no idea what they’ve done inside the box to allow for ISO, but if my suggestion is possible. It could be a reasonable update to keep those with Pro models from feeling shafted.

 

[BTM_Pix]

11 hours ago, EphraimP said:

What I'm looking into right now is a solution for livestreaming from locations that don't have an ethernet network with decent bandwidth for uploading. I've found that your typical (in the US anyway) 5Mpbs upload speed is dicey at best for a multicam stream. It looks like cellular bonding encoder/modem  are the way to go, but they are pretty expensive. Since the ATEM is already an encoder, I'd love to find a modem only solution that would work.

Its a funny period for this really as, depending on your location, any investment will likely be a short term one as 5G begins to roll out as the problem will then in all likelihood go away.

But if you need something in the here and now then both the Terradek Vidiu Go and the LiveU Solo products provide good bonding capabilities.

I have the older Vidiu Pro, which I used to use for streaming press conferences, and it is a bit weird in that it bonds together iPhones (I used to use cheap secondhand 5c ones) as well as regular cellular modems to give you coverage but it worked well. 

Because it is an older product, the Vidiu Pro can often be picked up used for €500-600 or even lower.

The important thing with the Terradek and LiveU products is that they offer dedicated cloud services to aggregate the data from each cellular modem and then route it to the service that you are streaming to.

Neither of these options are free so expect to pay around $450 a year in subscription fees to use them, although Terradek do have a low cost pay as you go option if you only need it for the odd event. 

What you get in return is easy setup and reliability versus having to configure your own cloud server, for which you would also likely have to pay a fee, albeit smaller.

There a lot of much cheaper options than the Vidiu Go and LiveU Solo such as this one but I've no idea how they would compare and how the backend setup is done. 

At least with the Terradek and LiveU products you can hop onto YouTube and have a look at what people are doing with them.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000147478548.html

[BTM_Pix]

8 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

I wonder if they could add a firmware update to the none ISO version to give users the project file. 
 

The Mini Pro generates timecode to the Pocket Cameras the same way as the ISO version so I can't see why it wouldn't be possible.

I don't think it would impinge on sales of the Mini Pro ISO version if they did it either as the people who want ISO recording want ISO recording so buying the Mini Pro wouldn't be an option for them anyway.

[Anaconda_]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The Mini Pro generates timecode to the Pocket Cameras the same way as the ISO version so I can't see why it wouldn't be possible.

Nice. But what about an option to record the 'live' inputs as individual clips with handles. Like this:

Input 1 is selected for 10 seconds - Input 2 for 5 seconds - Input 3 for 2 seconds - Input 1 for 10 seconds

Then on the SSD you have a project file with 4 individual clips, named:  Input1_00001 - Input1_00002 etc.

But what's better is each clip has a few seconds either side of it. In the project, you have the 'edit' you made live, but since the clips are a little longer, you can move the cuts back and forward a little bit to tidy things up.

---

I guess to do that, the device would have to be recording all inputs all the time, but the 3 unused inputs can be on a x second overwrite loop, when you select Input 2 the overwrite turns into continuous and the file is created. Maybe for the processing, thats harder than just recording all the inputs all the time?

[majoraxis]

Blackmagic has great timing regarding the Streaming Bridge.  

From the Blackmagic website: "Imagine broadcasters and bloggers collaborating on shows and creating global networks of ATEM Mini Pro remote broadcast studios. Setup is easy as the ATEM software utility can create setup files that you can email to remote ATEM Mini Pro studios. ATEM Streaming Bridge is the perfect way use ATEM Mini Pro as a remote broadcast studio!"

Seem like what people need in these times sheltering in place.

I would like to see an ATEM Mini Pro Solo: a signal video/audio  stream encoder that is compatible with the Streaming Bridge for $249. It would be nice if it had an SDI input as well as HDMI the ability to load a 3D LUT on the SDI input would be a plus.

Anyways, this is a fanatic product line that keeps getting better.