Will Canon recall the EOS R5? Small first shipments

[Andrew Reid]

49 minutes ago, Brett Munoz said:

Cooling a weather sealed body with a powerful processor, it’s almost an oxymoron.   Although processors have gotten more powerful, energy requirements and heat have gone up with it.  Until processors become more efficient and use less energy, this form factor will continue to not make any sense for power hungry codecs. 

You are talking out of your arse I'm afraid.

Processors become more efficient and use less energy by an order of magnitude every year.

[Cliff Totten]

Andrew....Canon employees knew about this last year when they started seeing early R5 units. I was told by my Canon contact about this in January. They have all known about this for a while now. The R5 was never designed from day 1 to "not" overheat. Overheating was ALWAYS on the engineering list of features....they just never thought people would be THIS angry about it. It is not an "engineering" error,...its a "marketing" error.

[Andrew Reid]

Looks like Petapixel have done a u-turn on their earlier article.

Funny how much stock people put in a meaningless PR statement 

https://petapixel.com/2020/07/31/canon-responds-there-is-no-delay-in-eos-r5-shipments/

@Cliff Totten - Thanks for the info. Of course in my opinion there are many reasons why Canon would allow the overheating to occur by design. Technologically, they may not be able to achieve the headline specs of 8K and oversampled 8K-4K or 4k/120p with their current processors and sensor technology without overheating problems. It's a lot of data. In terms of product segmentation, it may be that Canon assumed enthusiasts and photographers (maybe 90% of the target customer) would put up with a crippled video mode that cannot be considered for professional use. Ethical, not very. But you can see why they still want pros to purchase higher margin Cinema EOS cameras.

I think the whole thing is disgusting on every level... the technological failure, the reliability, the marketing hype, the misleading specs, the segmentation by overheating and the unwillingness to provide a reliable tool even for $4000 that does what it says on the box.

It is time to seriously question the company and for customers to stop buying these silly PR lines and defective products.

[salim]

23 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think the whole thing is disgusting on every level

I'm going to make a friendly recommendation, Andrew. You're beginning to sound bitter and essentially come across as a hater for anyone who may not be familiar with you. 

I think the energy you're spending on writing this blog post, if spent on some S1H image post- processing tutorial will bring a stronger community to EOSHD and it'll bring you more high quality visitors. 

I also think you'll get more recognition by marketing heads of these camera companies as an honest but fair reviewer of their product and maybe then you get the recognition you believe you deserve. 

BTW, I left Canon's bandwagon when the D800 was first released. I got fed up with Canon back then with their horrible DR. My point is, I'm not some canon fanboy. I'm just a person who is here to learn and contribute when I can. I also have a bit of experience in media matters and was strategic advisor. I have a bit of a gage for public reaction. I'm only giving you this feedback with good intentions. 

[hoodlum]

4 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Apparently R5 has a small bit more DR than the A7R4 in photo mode.... a big improvements over previous R sensor

Bill Claff just mentioned that the R5 is applying NR up to ISO 640 that is improving DR by 2/3 stop.  So a bit of trickery by Canon in order to match Sony's DR.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64212513

 

[Brett Munoz]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

You are talking out of your arse I'm afraid.

Processors become more efficient and use less energy by an order of magnitude every year.

Moore’s law has been historically true.  However, what I’m seeing in the computer world for “processing” power (as a network tech), only solution has been more cores and multi-threads.  Speeds remain about the same.  PCs these days are running hot af and power requirements have gone up as well (applies to latest and greatest).    After a gen or two I do see power draw and heat go down.  Don’t know full details of digic X but if it’s anything like what I’m seeing on the computer side then this all makes sense.  Still buying this camera, I’m a fan of Canon color and a hybrid shooter.  

[visionrouge]

1 hour ago, Cliff Totten said:

.its a "marketing" error.

100% agree.
But it's still an error.
The camera is not the one they advertised for.

The fact that taking photo with the live preview  for an hour gives you an immediate overheat when you switch to video is not acceptable.
You can't call this a "hybrid" camera.
 

[douglaurent]

Got the first of two R5 and I'm really happy.  Will not complain that a camera stops after shooting 30.000 35 megapixel images in a row!!!  Autofocus and several other things like the lens selection is so much better than Fuji and Panasonic products.  Also did order two A7S3.  Equipped with R5 and A7S3, one can do everything an S1H and GFX100 can achieve, plus lots more from tight eye AF to 120fps to super low light.  Sometimes waiting for the products that have better features pays off.  So sorry, until Fuji and Panasonic improve their camera lineups with new models, they are behind from now on.

[gt3rs]

5 minutes ago, visionrouge said:

100% agree.
But it's still an error.
The camera is not the one they advertised for.

The fact that taking photo with the live preview  for an hour gives you an immediate overheat when you switch to video is not acceptable.
You can't call this a "hybrid" camera.
 

nfs test took 1500 pictures and right after they got 17min of 8k 10bit.... under the sun.

canon says 20min 8k at room temp I see hard time to prove that is not performing as advertised.....

is not performing as we have hoped

[thebrothersthre3]

13 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

nfs test took 1500 pictures and right after they got 17min of 8k 10bit.... under the sun.

canon says 20min 8k at room temp I see hard time to prove that is not performing as advertised.....

is not performing as we have hoped

as advertised in one situation but not another?

[Leica50mm]

I can’t wait to get an R5 ,  I love the 28-70 2.0  one of the best lenses I have ever used. 

[druva_photography]

On 7/30/2020 at 11:33 PM, SteveV4D said:

Not really.   I never asked for 8K... or even 120fps 4K.. maybe some did, I didn't.  In fact, what I was hoping for was a Canon version of the S1H camera with their own colour science and AF.  

Still waiting.... 

I dream about camera for still photography only

[John Matthews]

Doesn't Canon already have all the tools and know-how to make a small body mirrorless camera? This seems obvious to me, but they're going to severely undermine their cinema cameras if they give ESOHD what it wants. They'd sell a lot of them in a bad economy context not making much money on them.

Sorry Canon, you had your moment to make serious profit had you simply advanced your own products rather than repackaging the same old products that made you dominent. Now, it's too late in this context and you're going to lose serious money.

[Nugat]

The R5 overheating is a humbug. Canon used the 8k spec as a marketing ploy to create hype. It worked.

In fact R5 is an excellent photo camera with some amazing hybrid video capabilities.

4k/30 has no thermal limitations on R5. 8k will be used in pro environments for FX,   reframing , compositing. Same as 4k was used for 2k DCI.  In drama productions, the takes do not last 20 minutes. Not even 10. And typically there is always a spare camera on set. Or two, or more. 

Any users in need of long takes in 4k with  above standard film frame rates will be better off with Sony a7s iii , which takes only 12 mpix photos. Horses for courses.

PS. I'll have my R5  delivered mid-August.

 

[Video Hummus]

6 hours ago, John Matthews said:

This seems obvious to me, but they're going to severely undermine their cinema cameras if they give ESOHD what it wants. They'd sell a lot of them in a bad economy context not making much money on them.

I don’t get this idea. The person that knows they need a C200/300/500 are not going to buy an R5 in place of it!

They are separate markets.

Typically someone that is in the market for a R5 isn’t going to be like, shit, I’ll spring and spend an extra $10,000 for the C500.

If anything they will buy what they need, C200/300/500 and get a couple of R5/6 in addition not in replacement.

[Andrew Reid]

7 hours ago, druva_photography said:

I dream about camera for still photography only

Nikon DF

Sorted. Now go away.

2 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I don’t get this idea. The person that knows they need a C200/300/500 are not going to buy an R5 in place of it!

They are separate markets.

If anything they will buy what they need, C200/300/500 and get a couple of R5/6 in addition not in replacement.

I completely agree!!

Seems still some push-back in Japan though.

[Yurolov]

40 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I completely agree!!

Seems still some push-back in Japan though.

You should tell that to Gerald who apparently got x3 a7siii instead of a c300 mkiii. 

I understand that as a youtuber he is outlier though.  

[John Matthews]

56 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nikon DF

Sorted. Now go away.

I completely agree!!

Seems still some push-back in Japan though.

Not according to some vendors (Pro AV) who were saying their FX9 customers were calling in saying they were upset by some of the features of the A7s iii. This is understandable because the FX9 costs way more and doesn't do everything the A7s iii does. IMO, they just lost some future customers for the next PRO version of the Fx9. I also agree though that these are different products for different people. Still, I think I'd be upset too.

[Video Hummus]

48 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

You should tell that to Gerald who apparently got x3 a7siii instead of a c300 mkiii. 

I understand that as a youtuber he is outlier though.  

That is true. I’m not sure Gerald is the typical consumer.

 

28 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Not according to some vendors (Pro AV) who were saying their FX9 customers were calling in saying they were upset by some of the features of the A7s iii. This is understandable because the FX9 costs way more and doesn't do everything the A7s iii does. IMO, they just lost some future customers for the next PRO version of the Fx9. I also agree though that these are different products for different people. Still, I think I'd be upset too.

It’s a cinema camera. The image is still much better than what the SIII can do.

Im sure they are going to improve the fX9. It kinda seemed half-baked when they released it. They still haven’t delivered the RAW output for it.

I think Sony were thinking of the bigger picture here and going for the jugular to capture the mirrorless pro market, travel films, weddings, YouTube, special events, possible news shooters with the A7SIII.

Mindshare is everything. The AP deal was an extremely smart move. 

[John Matthews]

23 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

It’s a cinema camera. The image is still much better than what the SIII can do.

Are you sure of this? I have my doubts. Again, Fx9 lacks some of the features of the A7s iii. Bloom's interview with ProAV states otherwise and he had experience with both. He specifically says the A7s iii in slog3 10 bit was every bit as good as the Fx9 with LUTs applied. Maybe I'm wrong.

Going back to the topic of Canon, I think the same applies. They're protecting their cinema line in some way, shape, or form. Why wouldn't they? I think people might be underestimating what their cinema line means to them. Only judging them on their R5 product, it does a lot, but they limited it in serious ways so their cinema line is still protected. The question is: did they do it on purpose or not? I say they did because they were so forthcoming about its limitations in terms of overheating. Had they produced a non-weathersealed camera or just with better cooling, it would have possibly surpassed the abilities of their cinema line (in terms of output and practicality due to its smaller size). Just some thoughts.