RED KOMODO 6K | First Footage - WOW

[JordanWright]

1 hour ago, anonim said:

I found that nothing in camera specs is not so much elusive and subjective as trying to measure DR in some sort of experimental condition - after camera crosses certain high threshold for resolving demand inside-outside space (or shadow to bright sunlight) range that is aesthetically relevant (I mean not looking from deep cave to harsh midday desert sun). Simply, when crucial distinctive variable is "noise", there're too  many subjective variables that are include in someone's impression. So, the most and only relevant to me are tests strictly side by side where we can more evidently judge also (or above all) a "quality" of DR.

For example, I already posted this IMO interesting test in a dedicated thread, so I apologize for  quoting it here, just to illustrate my opinion

 

I completely agree! Nowadays any modern camera have much more than you need.

[Snowfun]

12 hours ago, JordanWright said:

inema 5D rated the Pocket 6K at 11.8. (Blackmagic Claim 13) 
I would put Komodo at 12.2 (Approx) (RED claim 16.5+)
Cinema 5D rated the S1H as 12.7 (Panasonic claim 14)
Gerald Undone rated the A7s iii as 13.0 (Sony claim 15)

Ignoring the absolute numbers for a moment the interesting thing is just how much RED overstate DR compared to the others quoted.

[JordanWright]

5 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

Ignoring the absolute numbers for a moment the interesting thing is just how much RED overstate DR compared to the others quoted.

Yeah I was subtly trying to make that point. The other 3 I mentioned overstated between 1.2-2 stops, Red does by over 4+ stops.

[Video Hummus]

I don’t know, cameras come nowhere close to the human eye. But like I posted before in a different thread the human eye uses a lot of evolutionary trickery. Reality vs perception is a real thing.

You’re brain will literal mess with its perception of time to fix a deficiency in how your eyes work. You can see it for yourself when you look at a clock with a ticking second hand (one that ticks instead of a constant motion). Look at the second hand and then look away and look back. Every once in a while you may see the second hand tick back or seem to stay longer on one second...yes this is real. It is called Chronostasis and the Stopped-Clock illusion.

There is also a blind spot on your retina and you can test this as well with a simple black dot on a paper test. You brain just stitches together the missing data by interoperating what it things should be there. Quite literally like the clone tool in photoshop.

We also have built in HDR where our brain is again overcoming human eye deficiency to fake exposure, again all happening in real time.

Where camera DR really lacks is in the highlights and we will need a sensor with an absolute DR of around 21 stops to match the human eye. That or some subtle HDR trickery.

Another way to improve DR for current sensors is to develop an eND that can selectively darken certain areas of the eND glass. You can then develop the software to selectively apply ND to the highlight areas of the image. So for example, a sunset. You would just switch on your eND, tell it to only apply to highlighted regions and boom, you have massive “perceived” DR.

You can even do something simpler approach and just have and eND that can simulate a graduated ND and allow the user to select the grade and intensity from top to bottom, bottom to top, and from left and right respectively. This would be more likely first step.

I’m sure someone is already working on it.

[Emanuel]

Now Blackmagic has no excuse... ;- )

[MoonCannon]

I think the footage actually grades really nice. Although, this is, literally, my very first attempt at grading r3d footage.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/446362143

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/446362143" width="640" height="270" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Snowfun]

6 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Now Blackmagic has no excuse... ;- )

Although I’m not sure they need an excuse for deciding not to implement a feature a lot of people are happy without and thereby keeping the cost down. 

[Emanuel]

Keeping the cost down is OK as well manual focus for certain shooting style not for all...

But how this can rise it up when ANY smartphone manufacturer offers that from ages now?

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:45 AM, Emanuel said:

The way you elaborated your thinking much well structured BTW and you finish worried with Netflix... : D

Man, how on earth would they or anyone refuse anything properly exposed from and with this camera?!

; )

 

In Portuguese from Brazil: "Não tem como!" né? @Márcio Kabke Pinheiro ;- )

"Não tem como" buy a Red camera in Brazil, with the import taxes and general vendors greed.

A Komodo will probably cost more than a full equipped SUV here.

[Kino]

On 8/8/2020 at 7:35 PM, JordanWright said:

Thanks for your thoughts! I wouldn't take the curves on those charts as accurate, I just brought the 1st stop on the Komodo to match the Pocket to demonstrate the difference accurately. I also wouldn't go as far as a full stop improvement but you could totally argue more than the 0.4 I suggest, I chose to side with caution because the Komodo seems noisier. But again, these charts aren't 100% accurate, Im sure that when someone more knowledgeable than me gets to testing we will get better results.

I'm not sure about Pocket 6K, but it's true that Komodo is noisier than Gemini and Helium and doesn't have the same DR:

Then again, for $6K, you are getting a "discount Dragon," so no complaints!

[Super8]

15 hours ago, Snowfun said:

Although I’m not sure they need an excuse for deciding not to implement a feature a lot of people are happy without and thereby keeping the cost down. 

AF has never been pushed as a cine option.   No deciding to add working AF and not being able to add working AF are not the same-thing.  

The flip side is RED did not add really good AF and waste million on R&D if people won't use it.   AF is great if it works and is reliable. 

[kye]

18 hours ago, MoonCannon said:

I think the footage actually grades really nice. Although, this is, literally, my very first attempt at grading r3d footage.

I haven't tried the Komodo footage but I have messed with RED footage before, so it would be interesting to see how it compares.

Lots of other RED sample files here from various other cameras: https://www.red.com/sample-r3d-files

[MeanRevert]

I'm sure you guys already have seen this but there's quite a bit of non-impressive-looking footage out there.  

[Ed David]

On 8/10/2020 at 4:07 PM, Kino said:

I'm not sure about Pocket 6K, but it's true that Komodo is noisier than Gemini and Helium and doesn't have the same DR:

Then again, for $6K, you are getting a "discount Dragon," so no complaints!

I'm curious how it compares overall to the red epic mx that you can get used for around the same price.

Seeing some comparison tests on reduser, between Komodo and the alexa - I like the curve of the footage - feels nice and rich.  But definitely - and I don't know if its the grade - still has that trademark red handling of blue.  Which kind of feels more electric or magneta than natural blues, and not the same quality of green that the alexa does so well with to make skintones and environments feel so natural.  

But hey, it's a 6k camera.  But hey, also, I never, in a larger discussion figure out why Red never modified their sensors or color science to get away from this.  I love the smoothness and look of red footage - that just convinced me to sell my red epic mx and my 2 red one mx when I had them and never get back on the red train.

 

[Kino]

On 8/12/2020 at 8:46 AM, Ed David said:

I'm curious how it compares overall to the red epic mx that you can get used for around the same price.

Seeing some comparison tests on reduser, between Komodo and the alexa - I like the curve of the footage - feels nice and rich.  But definitely - and I don't know if its the grade - still has that trademark red handling of blue.  Which kind of feels more electric or magneta than natural blues, and not the same quality of green that the alexa does so well with to make skintones and environments feel so natural.  

But hey, it's a 6k camera.  But hey, also, I never, in a larger discussion figure out why Red never modified their sensors or color science to get away from this.  I love the smoothness and look of red footage - that just convinced me to sell my red epic mx and my 2 red one mx when I had them and never get back on the red train.

 

If you look back on the clips that were posted, such as the plane at the airport, you can see that while Komodo has trouble with noise and low light, the color fidelity is not sacrificed as it can be with a lot of cameras in the $6K range. When the lights go down, the bit depth does not suffer: it does not go "thin" or start looking like 8-bit footage when you withdraw light. I can't speak to the colors in the grading process as I haven't downloaded any of the R3D files, but you can probably get it to match any of the modern RED sensors close enough. This is, after all, intended as a gimbal camera and not as a main one. So it is somewhat taking the place of the very capable RED Raven 4.5K, albeit in a very different marketplace. Nowadays, for just two thousand more, you can get a Kinefinity MAVO LF ($8K brain), which is an incredible camera for the price and I think a much better option as a proper cinema cam:

 

[MeanRevert]

3 hours ago, Kino said:

If you look back on the clips that were posted, such as the plane at the airport, you can see that while Komodo has trouble with noise and low light, the color fidelity is not sacrificed as it can be with a lot of cameras in the $6K range. When the lights go down, the bit depth does not suffer: it does not go "thin" or start looking like 8-bit footage when you withdraw light. I can't speak to the colors in the grading process as I haven't downloaded any of the R3D files, but you can probably get it to match any of the modern RED sensors close enough. This is, after all, intended as a gimbal camera and not as a main one. So it is somewhat taking the place of the very capable RED Raven 4.5K, albeit in a very different marketplace. Nowadays, for just two thousand more, you can get a Kinefinity MAVO LF ($8K brain), which is an incredible camera for the price and I think a much better option as a proper cinema cam:

 

Bang on color. Fantastic.

[ntblowz]

Even Vincent Laforet got Komodo himself.. the guy who started this whole dslr craze! But in the comment ppl say wtf is this guy how dare him tag jarred in it.  Red Fanboy is just embarrassing themselves.🤣

 

[aaa123jc]

The spec looks very good, almost too good to be true. However with this money, which I certainly don't have at the moment, I can also buy a Z-Cam E2-F6 or a Kinefinity MOVO, both of which I am very interested at. 

May check the Komodo out later. Maybe rent it once to try it out. 

 

[Ed David]

Yea mavo lf certainly looks like it has a much better skintones and iq out of the box. More than all the reds... even the monstro.  I put in a preorder for the mavo edge, which seems to iron out some things in the mavo lf. Hopefully sensor is still good in low light and dynamic range is still good.

and yea thats funny about vincent laforet being treated so poorly. He really help put red on the map.

whats next? Is Shane Hurlbut even safe? 🤗

 

[kye]

Haters gonna hate....

13 hours ago, aaa123jc said:

May check the Komodo out later. Maybe rent it once to try it out. 

That's top 5% of the most sensible things ever said on a camera forum.  

Nice to see a departure from the "based on one video I'm going to buy it / I'll never buy it" all-or-nothing sentiments 🙂