RED KOMODO 6K | First Footage - WOW

[kye]

27 minutes ago, markr041 said:

I agree that talented people can produce excellent videos with any camera. But that is irrelevant to evaluating a camera's ability. 

And, sure one video is a data point. But not all "data points" are of equal value, as you then go on to suggest. A video shot in a setting with limited dynamic range, where the author has decided to discolor skin tones, where most of the frames are out of focus (very little detail to ingest), is not going to be a very valuable data point for evaluating a camera.

What are the key issues for image quality? 1. dynamic range - so we need a setting with a big dynamic range. 2. color science - so we need to see the natural colors it is capable of reproducing, not some person's imaginative discoloration of skin tones. 3. Resolution - so we need detailed scenes, not faces and bokeh. 4. rolling shutter - so we need horizontally moving subjects.  5. low-light performance - so we need - lowlight! The posted video (cute children shot with a very peculiar lens) that people actually said convinced them to get a Komodo failed in providing information on any of these. It may win a prize somewhere, and the dp may win an award, but it is a near useless as a data point for evaluating a camera. 

There are threads for showing off one's artistic vision in video,  a thread about a camera is not the place for that. Wow, really? Again, the Komodo may be a great addition to the cinematic tool kit at a reasonable price,, but I do not see anything here that demonstrates it is better than other offerings (actually, global shutter seems to me the biggest deal, so let's see that in action).

I think it depends on what you're trying to achieve.

A video showing test shots of brick walls, charts, high DR scenes, and scenes where a colour gradient is pushed in post to expose any banding would be very useful to a technical film-maker, but would be useless to the expressive film-maker who wants to see the aesthetic potential of the camera.

Likewise, an emotional and dreamy creative piece where the composition is an interpretive dance between cast and crew can tell a creative everything they need to know about the texture and refinement of expression that the camera possesses in pure potential, and would tell the technical operator very little.

The older I get the more I realise that people dramatically underestimate how different we all are to each other.  Put more simply, what doesn't work for you might be useful for someone else.

[Juan Melara]

Got my hands on Red Komodo to test for a few days. I'm impressed.

A few more images can be seen here: https://imgur.com/a/HAWFShe

 

[Trankilstef]

19 minutes ago, Juan Melara said:

Got my hands on Red Komodo to test for a few days. I'm impressed.

A few more images can be seen here: https://imgur.com/a/HAWFShe

 

Very nice images Juan, well exposed and graded, very clean look even a night. What do you think of the dynamic range? Seems pretty good in your shots.

[deezid]

9 hours ago, Juan Melara said:

Got my hands on Red Komodo to test for a few days. I'm impressed.

A few more images can be seen here: https://imgur.com/a/HAWFShe

 

Really nice and deep colors. Impressive looking greens.

[ntblowz]

 

11 hours ago, Juan Melara said:

Got my hands on Red Komodo to test for a few days. I'm impressed.

 

 

 

Look really nice!

How does it do compare to the P4K and Arri? 

[zerocool22]

19 hours ago, Juan Melara said:

Got my hands on Red Komodo to test for a few days. I'm impressed.

A few more images can be seen here: https://imgur.com/a/HAWFShe

 

Ah I just saw this on youtube, I came over here to post it, but you already did it. It really looks great! Might get one in a couple of years. 

[Juan Melara]

10 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Look really nice!

How does it do compare to the P4K and Arri? 

I can't compare it directly to the P4K as I don't regularly shoot with one. But it compares quite well with the P6K and the Alexa. As I said elsewhere the P6K has 1.3 stops more range in the highlights at IOS800 when highlight recovery is enabled. But the Komodo has nicer finer grained noise with no CMOS smear.

I'm getting pretty much the same image from both. The P6K requires a Rawlite OLPF filter though.

Usability wise the P6K is maybe a bit nicer. So much quicker to shoot with assignable buttons, 2 sec startup time.

[ntblowz]

8 hours ago, Juan Melara said:

I can't compare it directly to the P4K as I don't regularly shoot with one. But it compares quite well with the P6K and the Alexa. As I said elsewhere the P6K has 1.3 stops more range in the highlights at IOS800 when highlight recovery is enabled. But the Komodo has nicer finer grained noise with no CMOS smear.

Interesting, I saw another video compare c200 RAW and Komodo, the c200 also retain highlight better than Red, but shadow area Komodo hold better.

[Gregormannschaft]

15 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Interesting, I saw another video compare c200 RAW and Komodo, the c200 also retain highlight better than Red, but shadow area Komodo hold better.

I'd be interested in checking this out, got a link? I shoot RAW on the C200 for most projects and the only thing that really lets the camera down is noise in the shadows.

[ntblowz]

1 minute ago, Gregormannschaft said:

I'd be interested in checking this out, got a link? I shoot RAW on the C200 for most projects and the only thing that really lets the camera down is noise in the shadows.

 

[JordanWright]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:41 AM, JordanWright said:

I found a Xyla chart test of the Komodo on the FB user group. Thought i'd download the R3D and put it in a timeline to compare against Cinema 5D's test of the Pocket 6K. I'm no expert, and obviously these tests came from different sources, but it gives a fairly accurate result of what to expect.  Id like to get hold of the BRAW still to compare them slightly more closely.  

Left is Pocket 6K. Right is Komodo.

Cinema 5D rated the Pocket 6K at 11.8. (Blackmagic Claim 13) 
I would put Komodo at 12.2 (Approx) (RED claim 16.5+)
Cinema 5D rated the S1H as 12.7 (Panasonic claim 14)
Gerald Undone rated the A7s iii as 13.0 (Sony claim 15)

https://www.cined.com/red-komodo-6k-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-latitude-test/
 

Official CineD numbers have come out regarding the dynamic range of the Komodo. Its interesting how much difference there is from R3D to ProRes. They measured R3D to have a full stop less dynamic range than Braw on the Pocket 6k, the ProRes on the Komodo however edges the Pocket by 0.3 stops. (My janky test wasn’t too far off.

They also measured the Pocket 6K to have 1 stop more exposure latitude than the Komodo (8vs7) although they allocate dynamic range very differently with the 6k spending evenly and the Komodo strongly favouring the shadows. 

- Dynamic Range (SNR = 2)

Pocket 6k 

Braw 11.8

ProRes 11.9

Komodo 

R3D 10.8

ProRes 12.2

 

- Latitude

Pocket 6k

8 Stops (4 under, 4 over)

Komodo 

7 Stops (6 under, 1 over)

It appears that if dynamic range and latitude is your primary concern than the Pocket 6k would be the camera to choose. Obviously the Komodo has the global shutter benefits and they both have different form factors and very different price points.

Again, it would be great if all the camera manufacturers had a standardised system to measure dynamic range, reading the spec sheets is very misleading.

[JordanWright]

Updated Komodo results due to error:

R3D 12.5

ProRes 12.3

 

[TomTheDP]

The big difference is the REDRAW will just look richer with 16bit colordepth vs 12, especially when not exposing perfectly or pushing the files hard. Both are great codecs though. The P6K rolling shutter isn't great that is the big difference for me.

[JordanWright]

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

The big difference is the REDRAW will just look richer with 16bit colordepth vs 12, especially when not exposing perfectly or pushing the files hard. Both are great codecs though. The P6K rolling shutter isn't great that is the big difference for me.

I’m not sure you’d notice a huge difference between 12 and 16 bit (at least I don’t although my only experience is with the Raven) but 100% with you on the RS, it’s noticeable at certain times on the 6K, shooting in 5.7k improves it quite a bit but I usually stick to 6K anyway.

[TomTheDP]

1 hour ago, JordanWright said:

I’m not sure you’d notice a huge difference between 12 and 16 bit (at least I don’t although my only experience is with the Raven) but 100% with you on the RS, it’s noticeable at certain times on the 6K, shooting in 5.7k improves it quite a bit but I usually stick to 6K anyway.

Yeah I mean if you are pushing those shadows I think it becomes more apparent, depending on your eye and the amount you push color around. But yeah 12 bit BRAW is incredible to being with. Would be sweet if BM used the Sony A7S3 sensor in a camera. You'd get that great dual gain ISO as well as low rolling shutter. No 6k though.

The Zcam e2g is coming soon but at 6k you might as well get the komodo and get the redraw. 

[JordanWright]

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

Yeah I mean if you are pushing those shadows I think it becomes more apparent, depending on your eye and the amount you push color around. But yeah 12 bit BRAW is incredible to being with. Would be sweet if BM used the Sony A7S3 sensor in a camera. You'd get that great dual gain ISO as well as low rolling shutter. No 6k though.

The Zcam e2g is coming soon but at 6k you might as well get the komodo and get the redraw. 

Yeah possibly, to be honest I don't push the image around massively, in certain circumstances I can see how there might be a difference! I haven't used the A7s3 but I strongly doubt BM will make a FF sensor they've talked before about how difficult it is. Although I love the Pocket form factor, i'm probably in the minority, I put the battery grip on and treat it like a handheld camera.  Id really like to see a Micro style camera I can see when it would be really useful!

I'm interested to see if BM incorporate the 12k Sensor but limit it to different resolutions such as 8K in a smaller body that can't process 12k, it might make sense to start using there 'in house' sensors. Id like to test that out aswell to see how it handles!

Totally agree at the same price the Komodo is a no brainer, a more reputable brand than ZCam. Not to downplay how good the Zcam's are I just personally feel more comfortable with a more established brand. Really cool to see more global shutter competitors though!

[TomTheDP]

2 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Yeah possibly, to be honest I don't push the image around massively, in certain circumstances I can see how there might be a difference! I haven't used the A7s3 but I strongly doubt BM will make a FF sensor they've talked before about how difficult it is. Although I love the Pocket form factor, i'm probably in the minority, I put the battery grip on and treat it like a handheld camera.  Id really like to see a Micro style camera I can see when it would be really useful!

I'm interested to see if BM incorporate the 12k Sensor but limit it to different resolutions such as 8K in a smaller body that can't process 12k, it might make sense to start using there 'in house' sensors. Id like to test that out aswell to see how it handles!

Totally agree at the same price the Komodo is a no brainer, a more reputable brand than ZCam. Not to downplay how good the Zcam's are I just personally feel more comfortable with a more established brand. Really cool to see more global shutter competitors though!

I think the Pocket's bodies would make more sense with a bigger internal battery and a tilt screen. 

I like the ursa bodies for the internal ND's and they are bigger enough where you can shoot handheld stably even on longer lenses (50mm). The Pocket 6k sensor in an URSA body would make a lot of sense to me. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the 12k sensor tech on lower end stuff if anything. Maybe an URSA ultra mini 8k 😅

[zerocool22]

A bm komodo would be great. Allthough would be great if they could design it to keep everything small and compact but good quality. Good battery life, good lcd screen. ( the ump lcd screen sucks, the fpn as well, and vlocks are kinda huge and weigh a lot). Something you can just place in your backback without disconnecting cables and batteries. I realised I left my ump and pocket cameras in the hotel room because it was a drag, so took a friggin canon 6d out on the streets because it was way less hassle. 

[TomTheDP]

9 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

A bm komodo would be great. Allthough would be great if they could design it to keep everything small and compact but good quality. Good battery life, good lcd screen. ( the ump lcd screen sucks, the fpn as well, and vlocks are kinda huge and weigh a lot). Something you can just place in your backback without disconnecting cables and batteries. I realised I left my ump and pocket cameras in the hotel room because it was a drag, so took a friggin canon 6d out on the streets because it was way less hassle. 

Yeah the URSA is not made for that kind of shooting. The Pockets are but they are certainly not the best for it. Rather have my Panasonic S1 for run and gun. Its certainly doable on the Pocket cameras. You just have to do a lot of battery swapping. We're all spoiled now.

[zerocool22]

14 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Yeah the URSA is not made for that kind of shooting. The Pockets are but they are certainly not the best for it. Rather have my Panasonic S1 for run and gun. Its certainly doable on the Pocket cameras. You just have to do a lot of battery swapping. We're all spoiled now.

Yeah recently sold all my camera's except the S5. (as I did not shoot anything over a year now, in fear of the value of the camera's dropping, while actually it hasnt so far lol)