Canon RF Mount Red Komodo Style Camera On the Way?

[herein2020]

Over at CR they are reporting an RF mount cinema camera is going to be announced this month. I also found an article from Sept reporting a Canon patent application for what looks like a similar form factor to the Red Komodo:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/move-over-red-canon-may-be-making-its-own-rf-mount-cinema-camera

Of course the codecs are not as good as the Red's but if these specs are true then Canon literally added every feature that I felt was missing from the Komodo (XLR, internal ND, better AF). As much as I wanted a true hybrid, this could be my GH5 replacement after all.

• Same Super35 sensor as the Canon Cinema EOS C200
• Internal ND filters (mechanical) up to 6 stops
• 2x Mini XLR inputs
• Full-size HDMI
• 4K 4:2:2 10bit in ALL-I and IPB up to 120p
• 1x CFexpress Type B Slot
• 2x SD UHS-II slots
• External RAW recording options up to 4K 120P
• 2x LP-E6NH batteries
• Camera size smaller than the EOS-1D X Mark III
• Price: $4499 USD

[ntblowz]

I rather they have the 20MP sensor as in R6, so you can have much sharper 4k that can hold up to 200% without adding lots of sharpness.

 

No SDI is a big bummer for me, though for people who dont need SDI this seem like the perfect camera for video.

[herein2020]

17 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

I rather they have the 20MP sensor as in R6, so you can have much sharper 4k that can hold up to 200% without adding lots of sharpness.

 

No SDI is a big bummer for me, though for people who dont need SDI this seem like the perfect camera for video.

I like the smaller sensor, the Komodo, C200, C300, UMP,  as well as many other cinema cameras have the same size sensor. In this form factor it's probably easier to do 4K120 without overheating (hopefully).  If I'm not taking photos I don't care about the sensor size as long as it looks good. I would take 4K120 any day over a larger sensor restricted to 4K60. It also lets them keep the body small which means this thing may fit on top of my Ronin S, if this thing really is smaller than a 1DXIII then that's going directly head to head with the Komodo and the Zcam.

Fortunately I do not need SDI, everything I have is HDMI so that's not a big deal for me. I'm not a fan of the mini XLR, everything I have is full XLR but they probably had to do that to reduce the size. The external RAW  up to 4K120 sounds pretty incredible.

What I can't tell from the patent drawings is if the screen is a tilt flip or fixed on the back. If it is a tilt flip then that's another benefit over the Komodo.

[ade towell]

There's already a thread about this may be they can be merged. 

Exciting development though, this would be a worthy successor to the C100 if true...

 

[Andrew Reid]

Rumoured specs from Canon Rumors:

https://www.canonrumors.com/rf-mount-rumored-cinema-camera-specifications-cr2

• Same Super35 sensor as the Canon Cinema EOS C200
• Internal ND filters (mechanical) up to 6 stops
• 2x Mini XLR inputs
• Full-size HDMI
• 4K 4:2:2 10bit in ALL-I and IPB up to 120p
• 1x CFexpress Type B Slot
• 2x SD UHS-II slots
• External RAW recording options up to 4K 120P
• 2x LP-E6NH batteries
• Camera size smaller than the EOS-1D X Mark III
• Price: $4499 USD

And may take on it:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/is-this-the-new-komodo-style-4500-canon-mini-cinema-eos-camera/

 

[Amazeballs]

What's the point of having RF mount with Canon having only FF lenses on it? They need to make a FF version of this camera and it would be pretty sweet. Especially if they add PDAF and IBIS from R5/6.

Though with adapter I could use my trusty Sigma 18-35 with it. 

[BTM_Pix]

Sigma are still on the fence over developing anything for the Z and RF mounts but if this camera is going to happen then it might persuade them to dip their toe in and re-do their three compact mirrorless APS-C primes in RF mount as they've just done for L mount.

You have to think that Canon, like Nikon have with the Z50, will do APS-C cameras with the new mount so there will eventually be more suitable glass for it.

At that price, I can see this camera being a big hit even if its only likely to be going to be used with adapted lenses in the short term.

[Yurolov]

44 minutes ago, Amazeballs said:

What's the point of having RF mount with Canon having only FF lenses on it? They need to make a FF version of this camera and it would be pretty sweet. Especially if they add PDAF and IBIS from R5/6.

Though with adapter I could use my trusty Sigma 18-35 with it. 

Because they will make a focal reducer for it to be used with EF glass, which is what everyone has. It is the best of both worlds, where you get FF look and the small size and frame rate capabilities of a super-35 sensor. The benefits here are that the form factor should allow continuous recording in all frame rates and all conditions unlike the a7siii. Plus the advantages of internal nd, battery life and audio ports. 

I doubt it will have ibis if they are advertising it in their cinema line. I know it is controversial but there is clearly a lot of resistance to ibis in the cinema lines of most brands. 

For people like me who don't shoot photos, I am just glad they are steering away from the hybrid form factor of the a7siii. 

 

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Rumoured specs from Canon Rumors:

https://www.canonrumors.com/rf-mount-rumored-cinema-camera-specifications-cr2

• Same Super35 sensor as the Canon Cinema EOS C200
• Internal ND filters (mechanical) up to 6 stops
• 2x Mini XLR inputs
• Full-size HDMI
• 4K 4:2:2 10bit in ALL-I and IPB up to 120p
• 1x CFexpress Type B Slot
• 2x SD UHS-II slots
• External RAW recording options up to 4K 120P
• 2x LP-E6NH batteries
• Camera size smaller than the EOS-1D X Mark III
• Price: $4499 USD

And may take on it:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/is-this-the-new-komodo-style-4500-canon-mini-cinema-eos-camera/

 

 

If they go with a fixed XC style mount then the cripple hammer strikes again. That would almost make more sense to me (knowing Canon) than to release a body like this that risks cutting into their C200 sales.  No way would I buy this with a fixed mount, but if it really is an RF mount then this could be the perfect b cam for my C200 as well as a gimbal cam. It would mean however that the R5 and R6 will probably continue as they stand now.......two bodies unfit for anything but photography with Canon protecting their new Canon Komodo. I bet this body will do everything I wanted in the R6....dual card recording and no video time limit, ibis would be nice but not necessary, for a cam this size it would mostly be on a gimbal or tripod, and if I go handheld I'll use a vmount and top handle to add weight and stability.

[Stanly]

c200 sensor makes no sense for RF glass and there is no chance it can be stabilized in it's current form. I also doubt the camera will do stills. In other words – it's no substitute for what R5 was promised to be and can hardly satisfy those who want to go RF for video capture.

Internal NDs are intriguing, they are probably placed instead of mechanical shutter. May be that has something to do with "two adapters have a new design and will not be compatible with current RF cameras"? Really wish it had full frame sensor at least, we'll see!

[currensheldon]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Rumoured specs from Canon Rumors:

https://www.canonrumors.com/rf-mount-rumored-cinema-camera-specifications-cr2

• Same Super35 sensor as the Canon Cinema EOS C200
• Internal ND filters (mechanical) up to 6 stops
• 2x Mini XLR inputs
• Full-size HDMI
• 4K 4:2:2 10bit in ALL-I and IPB up to 120p
• 1x CFexpress Type B Slot
• 2x SD UHS-II slots
• External RAW recording options up to 4K 120P
• 2x LP-E6NH batteries
• Camera size smaller than the EOS-1D X Mark III
• Price: $4499 USD

And may take on it:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/is-this-the-new-komodo-style-4500-canon-mini-cinema-eos-camera/

 

This is basically EXACTLY what I've been asking for for 3-4 years. If this happens, I'd be back in Canon's camp. The C300 III is amazing. The R5 and R6 deliver on specs, but fail in real-world use. The Komodo is interesting, but have not been impressed with footage I've seen and the giant crop in 4k raw is super annoying, as well as the lack of 120fps in 4k. 

But this - this could be the perfect small documentary and journalism cam, as well as a great commercial and small-crew camera. The C200 has a gorgeous image, but the lack of 10-bit is a dealbreaker. I'd much rather have 10-bit recording internal in multiple flavors (as this reportedly has) and have raw external for when it is needed. Still wish they would at least allow raw up to 30p or 60p in 4k. The C200 is over three years old now and they have two new cameras with EF mount. I say cannibalize it with this RF Mount and people like me will be a Canon user again for some time. 

Then having the R5 has a photography camera or as an occasional B-Cam to this and the C300 III makes a lot more sense. 

4 minutes ago, Stanly said:

c200 sensor makes no sense for RF glass and there is no chance it can be stabilized in it's current form. I also doubt the camera will do stills. In other words – it's no substitute for what R5 was promised to be and can hardly satisfy those who want to go RF for video capture.

Internal NDs are intriguing, they are probably placed instead of mechanical shutter. May be that has something to do with "two adapters have a new design and will not be compatible with current RF cameras"? Really wish it had full frame sensor at least, we'll see!

Curious - how does this not satisfy people who want an RF-mount camera for video? These rumors, outside of not having full-frame, are near-perfect for a camera in this price range ($4-$6k).

[herein2020]

7 minutes ago, Stanly said:

c200 sensor makes no sense for RF glass and there is no chance it can be stabilized in it's current form. I also doubt the camera will do stills. In other words – it's no substitute for what R5 was promised to be and can hardly satisfy those who want to go RF for video capture.

Internal NDs are intriguing, they are probably placed instead of mechanical shutter. May be that has something to do with "two adapters have a new design and will not be compatible with current RF cameras"? Really wish it had full frame sensor at least, we'll see!

I think it does if Canon is trying to consolidate their lens mount.  The C200 uses an EF mount which can take APS-C or FF lenses, but there is no APS-C RF equivalent. I think APS-C is going away, which only leaves the M mount which is too small. Canon is supposedly going to release cheaper RF glass soon, so in that context why would Canon use a mount on their newest camera that they are trying to get rid of?

It also makes sense to use the C200 sensor (which is also the C300 MKII sensor btw), my C200 outputs great footage and it would be cheaper than Canon using their new C300MkIII sensor or developing a new sensor. At that size they can pull off 4K120FPS in a small body, control rolling shutter better, and provide better battery life. Everyone is caught up on sensor size yet cinema cameras have been using S35 sensors for years.

I definitely agree it is no R5 replacement, this is video all the way, the R5 and R6 are still complete disasters in my book, but this news might restore my faith in Canon after their recent disasters.

[Stanly]

8 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

how does this not satisfy people who want an RF-mount camera for video?

Why would I want an RF camera for besides using RF glass for it, which is full frame? That is the unique selling point of RF mount camera, how does crop sensor make any sense? Adapt EF lenses? Why not go for c200 then? Or may be a7S III, which is more capable and full frame?

7 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

no R5 replacement, this is video all the way

I chose my wording having that in mind: "no substitute for what R5 was promised to be" 😅 R5 was supposed to be video all the way as well, and a proper RF camera too (Full Frame, just as the lenses).

[Yurolov]

4 minutes ago, Stanly said:

Why would I want an RF camera for besides using RF glass for it, which is full frame? That is the unique selling point of RF mount camera, how does crop sensor make any sense? Adapt EF lenses? Why not go for c200 then? Or may be a7S III, which is more capable and full frame?

Ok so a lot wrong with this. Like I said above the RF mount enables a focal reducer so people can use their EF glass to get a FF look. 

This is a completely different camera to c200 in form factor, codec and frame rate (i.e. in nearly every conceivable way). 

This will compete against the a7sii because of form factor, battery life, internal nd, audio ports, ergonomics, frame rates will likely be useable in all conditions and without heat limits. Both will have FF look. a7siii will have ibis and photo capabilities (which are not pro). 

For c500 and c300 users this is perfect B camera because you will still be able to use the SAME lenses - EF glass. People with a c300 and c500 do not want to have to carry ef and rf glass. So your statement is quite misguided and not very well thought out.  

This is the B camera most people have been asking for who shoot video. We don't want a photo style camera with its clear limitations. If they can keep it small, with the rumored specs, and there is no heat issues, it will be a big winner. 

[jack jin]

So the red komodo for 1500 dollars more is going to have: 

1, True internal Redcode raw at 8:1 in mq mode and 4-3:1 at hq mode

2, Internal 4k and 2k prores recording

3, Global Shutter

3, Much better dynamic range

4, 6k

5, Red ipp2 colorscience

5, Better lowlight then the c200

 

However, the canon is going to have:

1, Internal nd filters

2, full sensor 4k 120 compared to cropped 4k60 on the komodo

3, canon c series reliability

4, Better DPAF

5, 1500 dollars cheaper

 

Personally I don't see the point of the canon, since the a7s3 will blow the canon's image quality and usuability out of the water, while being 1000 dllars less, in a much smlaller mirrorless form factor. At least the red has global shutter and internal raw and 6k. The canon just sound like another 1dc all over again.

 

[cameraeye]

Now... I am interested. I honestly think when companies try to balance two products in one i.e. still and video it's easier to trip up and make a bad design decision. If this is real it's spot on for my use case. I'll just use my 5Diii for stills and share glass between them.

[currensheldon]

1 hour ago, jack jin said:

Personally I don't see the point of the canon, since the a7s3 will blow the canon's image quality and usuability out of the water, while being 1000 dllars less, in a much smlaller mirrorless form factor. At least the red has global shutter and internal raw and 6k. The canon just sound like another 1dc all over again.

 

Sony's IQ continues to struggle, in my opinion. The FX9 looks better than anything else they've done (outside of the Venice), but from samples, the A7sIII seems to look similar to the A7sII, FS5, etc. Skintones are meh, image feels thin, and in general just doesn't have a very pleasing look. 

Also, this will have internal NDs, won't overheat, has two XLRs, etc - so not sure how it won't be much more usable than the A7sIII. 

[jack jin]

3 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

Sony's IQ continues to struggle, in my opinion. The FX9 looks better than anything else they've done (outside of the Venice), but from samples, the A7sIII seems to look similar to the A7sII, FS5, etc. Skintones are meh, image feels thin, and in general just doesn't have a very pleasing look. 

Also, this will have internal NDs, won't overheat, has two XLRs, etc - so not sure how it won't be much more usable than the A7sIII. 

You ain't gonna see what the footage look like just from youtube, and the a7s3's slog 3 and 2 is meant to match the fx9, and from the slog samples I've downloaded it seems great, especially if you use the right rec709 coversion lut like the alister venice or phantom luts. And the dynamic range of the a7s3 is the same as the c300mk3 with the dual gain enabled. And it still manages to beat out the fs7 even at 16000 iso.  The a7s3 also won't overheat from testing, since Philip Bloom literally managed to record over 8 hours of footage in a hot room before he gave up on the overheating tests.It also has a flip screen, ibis, great eye tracking af even at 240fps. With the xlr module it also can record 4 channel sound, 2 from xlr and 2 from 3.5mm. And of course there are internal nd adapters for e mount to ef if you want to go that route as well.

[cameraeye]

I watched Philip Blooms sequel film, and I came to the exact same conclusion- it looks thin. Same as the sII. At the right fingers any footage can be fixed and improved, I'm just not convinced Sony have made the leap into 'doesn't need to be touched and it looks right' territory.

[Mandalorian]

This would be an interesting move for Canon.

I guess they are starting to feel threatened by the Z-Cams and the upcoming Red Komodo.

With these specs, though, they are kind of undercutting their brand new C300mkIII. My guess is there will be some form of cripple they are going to implement to protect their C300mkIII.

Also, the 4K 120p RAW to an external recorder: what recorders can take Canon RAW up to 120p?