Multiple RF Cinema Cameras & XC20 coming from Canon

[noone]

Don't forget they are still putting out EF mount cameras and lenses too (and more so than M mount) so I can not see how they will manage THREE current mounts in a (rapidly) shrinking market.

I guess the test will be how long it takes to put out RF mount APSC stills cameras and appropriate RF crop sensor lenses.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, noone said:

Don't forget they are still putting out EF mount cameras and lenses too (and more so than M mount) so I can not see how they will manage THREE current mounts in a (rapidly) shrinking market.

Oh EF is a "dead mount" too!

Not sure which will last longer, EOS-M or EF. 

Arguably EOS-M is the newer mirrorless mount thus as a longer lifespan. But I doubt that, I think EF has quite a few years left up its sleeve, just because of the massive user base, and especially pros on the high end will still want to keep on seeing pro work horses being made for a few more years for EF mount. 

I'd give it a good 50/50 chance we'll see a 5D/6D-ish level replacement within the next few years, and that at least one more 1D series will still come out. 

1 hour ago, noone said:

I guess the test will be how long it takes to put out RF mount APSC stills cameras and appropriate RF crop sensor lenses.

Yup, the moment a RF APS-C camera/lens comes out then you know the days for EOS-M are becoming very very short indeed.

[Kisaha]

140.000.000 Canon lenses have been sold. I am reluctant to believe that EF is dead just yet.

Even to have a similar user base RF has to be adapted by other lens and camera manufacturers and sold at least a few dozens millions!

So far I haven't been impressed with anything in particular about the new mount. I have the last 70-200 4f, why I should go to the RF version? And the vND adapter will give to many another reason to stay EF with RF bodies.

For the next decade I see a mix of older expensive EF and cheap RF for the most of us.

[currensheldon]

I'd guess that the EF Mount production will slow dramatically. For high-end stuff, I think the 1DX III, C500 II, and C300 III will be the last true-professional tools in the EF Mount, outside of maybe another 5D or something similar. Since those four cameras tend to have a 4-5 year life-cycle, I doubt we'll see EF successors. With the new Cinema EOS R lineup being announced soon, the next big upgrade in 4-5 years will be for the RF Mount, which by that time will have tons of lenses and a full lineup of cinema lenses to choose from.

I wouldn't be surprised if you saw a full frame RF cinema camera (and upgrade to C500) in a shorter time frame - perhaps 2 years. 

The M-Mount was never really alive, so it's pretty dead already. Fine for carrying around to take some photos, but no way I would use one of those to shoot any professional video work while the GH5, XT3/4, used EOS Rs, used 5D IVs, etc are laying around. 

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, currensheldon said:

I'd guess that the EF Mount production will slow dramatically. For high-end stuff, I think the 1DX III, C500 II, and C300 III will be the last true-professional tools in the EF Mount, outside of maybe another 5D or something similar. Since those four cameras tend to have a 4-5 year life-cycle, I doubt we'll see EF successors. With the new Cinema EOS R lineup being announced soon, the next big upgrade in 4-5 years will be for the RF Mount, which by that time will have tons of lenses and a full lineup of cinema lenses to choose from.

Think some photographers could be more diehard resistant to change, so better odds we will see a 1D series successor than another C300/C500 with an EF mount. 

[Kisaha]

I hear good things about natively adapted EF lenses, it's not like we are going to throw them away. Coupled with the ND thingy is a huge plus.

3-4 years for RF in the decline of interchangeable systems is nothing like 33-34 years of EF, including the peak of video and photography.

[Kisaha]

M cameras accept EF lenses and perform incredible good with them, you are missing the point here, there is always something better, which is the EF mount and cheap EF-S and M lenses, and super expensive RF lenses for the next big thing.

I hear a lot of obituaries lately, but nothing is dead until ceases to exist. It is funny to call the M system dead when dozens of thousands of people take photos and videos with it and EF when millions use it right now.

[ntblowz]

Guess you could be right!

 

On 8/11/2020 at 3:05 AM, currensheldon said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you saw a full frame RF cinema camera (and upgrade to C500) in a shorter time frame - perhaps 2 years. 

 

 

two 8K Cinema cameras coming from Canon next year

Will it based on the R5 sensor?

 

https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-to-introduce-two-8k-cinema-eos-cameras-in-2021-cr2/

[ntblowz]

On 8/11/2020 at 3:38 PM, IronFilm said:

Think some photographers could be more diehard resistant to change, so better odds we will see a 1D series successor than another C300/C500 with an EF mount. 

Probably see more of the refresh of low end rebels, I think 1dx3 could be their last professional EF camera.

[IronFilm]

I think brand new newbie buyers are less married to their lens collection (because they have none! Or almost none) than long time pros, so those Rebel DSLR buyers would be easier to push over into buying an APS-C RF Mount Camera instead. 

[Avenger 2.0]

On 8/10/2020 at 8:03 AM, IronFilm said:

Oh EF is a "dead mount" too!

If they keep crippling their new camera's with overheating timers, the RF mount might even die before the EF does 😬

[Kisaha]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I think brand new newbie buyers are less married to their lens collection (because they have none! Or almost none) than long time pros, so those Rebel DSLR buyers would be easier to push over into buying an APS-C RF Mount Camera instead. 

How many are they? There is a 22% decline in sales for 2019 for a 22% in 2018 and a steep decline before that, while 2020 is going to be terrible anyway.

RF is going to catch up with EF in 50 years or more!

[noone]

15 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I think brand new newbie buyers are less married to their lens collection (because they have none! Or almost none) than long time pros, so those Rebel DSLR buyers would be easier to push over into buying an APS-C RF Mount Camera instead. 

Yeah I think so.

I think there will still be a few more EF FF and more advanced APSC DSLRs but Canon's problem is going to be which way do they send the current buyers of the Rebel cameras...Do they send them to M mount or do they send them to R? 

Until now it was looking like M but if they are going to introduce a R mount crop sensor camera (even if a cinema camera) it would make more sense for it to be R for two reasons.

A) Lenses ...little point putting out an R crop sensor video camera if there are no native wide angle lenses for it (unless the lenses are very expensive and for a small market) and putting out some wide angle native crop lenses I would think they would want to make that work from an economies of scale point of view. 

B) They are not putting out an M mount cinema camera and there is not such a huge demand for them with no more serious cameras for the mount and limited native lenses.

I see the R mount gaining fairly quickly, the EF mount continuing for quite a while yet (who knows, Canon might keep selling them so users of other mounts can adapt them) ...why should they care WHY someone buys them as long as they buy them), but the M mount dying a slow strangled death from lack of options and upgrade path.

[elgabogomez]

I remember when I first started filmschool, guys that had graduated and short film creators were lashing against newbies for only wanting to shoot fullhd as if that were to give us “better” content... that was 2011 in the dslr video revolution. Now everyone has a 4k camera and soon everyone will have 6k or 8k. There is still going to be filmschool graduates or younger creators buying new gear (if covid allows society to still have schools going forward)

[Kisaha]

2011 just or near the peak of cameras market. People were buying cheap Rebel cameras with a kit lens, took 980 pictures on Auto and then they put their dSLRs on their closets, for ever.

Just compare data from now and then and you will see the trend.

How many kids you know buying an R5 with the Holy Trinity at RF these days? 5?!

Kids now are just fine with an Osmo or a 360 or just their phone.

We are talking Canon has sold more than 140.000.000 and I believe that doesn't include other manufacturers. How many years will take RF to reach even half of it? It may never will..

[hyalinejim]

XC20 might be interesting if it isn't overly crippled or plagued with weird problems like the charming and infuriating XC10

[Jay]

Yea, the XC20 certainly has my interest, if it doesn't act like a log burning stove. 

[IronFilm]

On 8/16/2020 at 8:16 AM, noone said:

I think there will still be a few more EF FF and more advanced APSC DSLRs but Canon's problem is going to be which way do they send the current buyers of the Rebel cameras...Do they send them to M mount or do they send them to R? 

As RF Mount has a long future, and M Mount a (at best!) "murky" future, then the choice is clear for Canon: send them to RF Mount. 

Canon doesn't want to risk M Mount users (when they have to move on) choosing a non-Canon brand when they upgrade. Canon already has the risk of customer leakage as we transition away from EF, they don't want to go through that cycle all over again in a few years time! (when M Mount dies)

On 8/16/2020 at 8:16 AM, noone said:

A) Lenses ...little point putting out an R crop sensor video camera if there are no native wide angle lenses for it (unless the lenses are very expensive and for a small market) and putting out some wide angle native crop lenses I would think they would want to make that work from an economies of scale point of view. 

Initially, for the Canon Rebel buyers, all they need to initially do is put out an APS-C Kit Zoom Lens at the same time as an APS-C RF Mount camera is released. 
 

On 8/16/2020 at 8:16 AM, noone said:

I see the R mount gaining fairly quickly, the EF mount continuing for quite a while yet (who knows, Canon might keep selling them so users of other mounts can adapt them) ...why should they care WHY someone buys them as long as they buy them), but the M mount dying a slow strangled death from lack of options and upgrade path.

Exactly.

19 hours ago, Kisaha said:

2011 just or near the peak of cameras market. People were buying cheap Rebel cameras with a kit lens, took 980 pictures on Auto and then they put their dSLRs on their closets, for ever.

You just described my sister, and many many others. 

 

19 hours ago, Kisaha said:

We are talking Canon has sold more than 140.000.000 and I believe that doesn't include other manufacturers. How many years will take RF to reach even half of it? It may never will..

Am inclined to agree, at the very least it will take many decades.