I bought a Canon EOS R5 - potential overheating solutions

[visionrouge]

Just now, Avenger 2.0 said:

Maybe Canon made it overheat on purpose to keep us talking about the R5/R6. You know, bad press is better than no press 🤣

Actually, you can't blame them.
They said the camera will have max time limit recording and all users can confirm the time they can record is in line with the pdf.
There is no lies there.

The big mistake is to call it "overheat" when it's actually just a timer that decide if you can shoot or not.
The logo with a thermometer is quite misleading. 
And last but not least, they messed up with the timer and let it roll even if there is no actual recording. This is usual firmware bug.

On their next firmware, they will just fix the last issue and make sure the timer start with each take only.
There is no reason for them to fix the max recording time, as they said there is one from scratch.

They just need to change the red blinking logo with a clock more than a thermometer and we understand it better.

[HansD]

5 hours ago, visionrouge said:

You may want to check, but there is a button cell to keep the camera time
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Canon+EOS+5D+Mark+II+Clock+Battery+Replacement/31531
Look more for something like this to reset time.

If this reset the recovery time or recording time, it's the 100% proof that there is no valid temperature reading, but time based only

This is for 5D, but I guess 5R have something similar
 

 

 

The EOS R5 manual indicates that there is no separate battery for date and time storage. Probably just flash memory.

[visionrouge]

19 minutes ago, HansD said:

 

The EOS R5 manual indicates that there is no separate battery for date and time storage. Probably just flash memory.

 

Ok, so only way is to open the camera and unplug the board with the power storage.
Another way would maybe to do a "firmware update when the new firmware will be present, right after overheating.

Testing would be to turn on the camera until it reach the fake overheating logo.
remove the battery 
Unplug the board with the power (I can see a red/black cable on the bottom left) 
Wait 10 second,
Plug it back and see if overheating is still present.
This is only to prove that these warning are fake.
I guess there are some overheating sensor in case. But on the test done here, it's the "timer" overheat that kick-in first.
This is so wrong.

[HansD]

1 hour ago, visionrouge said:

Ok, so only way is to open the camera and unplug the board with the power storage.
Another way would maybe to do a "firmware update when the new firmware will be present, right after overheating.

Testing would be to turn on the camera until it reach the fake overheating logo.
remove the battery 
Unplug the board with the power (I can see a red/black cable on the bottom left) 
Wait 10 second,
Plug it back and see if overheating is still present.
This is only to prove that these warning are fake.
I guess there are some overheating sensor in case. But on the test done here, it's the "timer" overheat that kick-in first.
This is so wrong.

Maybe the whiz kids at Magic Lantern can reset the counters. But it is very quiet there as far as the R5 is concerned!

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, visionrouge said:

Ok, so only way is to open the camera and unplug the board with the power storage.
Another way would maybe to do a "firmware update when the new firmware will be present, right after overheating.

Testing would be to turn on the camera until it reach the fake overheating logo.
remove the battery 
Unplug the board with the power (I can see a red/black cable on the bottom left) 
Wait 10 second,
Plug it back and see if overheating is still present.
This is only to prove that these warning are fake.
I guess there are some overheating sensor in case. But on the test done here, it's the "timer" overheat that kick-in first.
This is so wrong.

How about we turn the camera on, do nothing with it, leave it in the menus.

Put it in the freezer.

After 1 hour, see if the timer has ticked down to 0 mins of 8K.

Who wants to see an OVERHEATED! SHUTTING DOWN! screen with frost on it?

[visionrouge]

24 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

How about we turn the camera on, do nothing with it, leave it in the menus.

Put it in the freezer.

After 1 hour, see if the timer has ticked down to 0 mins of 8K.

Who wants to see an OVERHEATED! SHUTTING DOWN! screen with frost on it?

That what I suggested before. Put a Go pro for the record/screen preview.
Even a fridge should suffice.
Yes, this is the video which gonna kill all the "I don't care about limitation"
"Let's install a fan" and other "Never overheat on my side"


Sometime, there is a way to access to some menu b turning on the camera while pressing other button for a reset. O a tiny switch hidden somewhere.
I can't believe the only way to reset it is to wait without a battery for months.
Also, they may have some specific USB command for than on the SDK.

[visionrouge]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

How about we turn the camera on, do nothing with it, leave it in the menus.

Put it in the freezer.

After 1 hour, see if the timer has ticked down to 0 mins of 8K.

Who wants to see an OVERHEATED! SHUTTING DOWN! screen with frost on it?

Here is your battery, btw.
MS614, coin cell 3V.
Bring the camera on overheat without taking picture, so it's not too hot.
Open the camera, remove this coin for 10 second, put it back and see if the recovering time real or not...

 

[zerocool22]

4 hours ago, visionrouge said:

Here is your battery, btw.
MS614, coin cell 3V.
Bring the camera on overheat without taking picture, so it's not too hot.
Open the camera, remove this coin for 10 second, put it back and see if the recovering time real or not...

 

What about removing the battery out completely?

[Emanuel]

Maybe will any tech company offer some mod to surpass overheating?

That would be a good kick in the ass of Canon if/when someone else would earn substantial gross amount of money in front of their greed.

Is it so hard to supply it @BTM_Pix hey our engineer? : )

Canon's R5 product manager should also send a good thanks card to, I guess.

[BTM_Pix]

46 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Maybe will any tech company offer some mod to surpass overheating?

That would be a good kick in the ass of Canon if/when someone else would earn substantial gross amount of money in front of their greed.

Is it so hard to supply it @BTM_Pix hey our engineer? : )

Canon's R5 product manager should also send a good thanks card to, I guess.

I've got a bit of an old fashioned view on this which is that instead of everyone else running round like blue arsed flies that perhaps Canon themselves might want to have a go at it themselves.

[Emanuel]

15 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I've got a bit of an old fashioned view on this which is that instead of everyone else running round like blue arsed flies that perhaps Canon themselves might want to have a go at it themselves.

That's my hope but they would deserve to have anyone to earn money directly from their backyard. Maybe next time they would think twice before to underestimate their own clientele. Without mention they would probably act faster if so.

Some pressure on them and other contenders to take a piece of their cake is not useless at all. Everyone would take advantage, except them.

[kadajawi]

There's no reason why Canon would market the camera at pros, with the intention of disappointing them. You make a customer spend thousands on a camera that he then realizes is useless for his task. Do you think he'll say... oh, in that case I'll buy an even more expensive camera from this brand? I think most people will boycott the company that has fooled them.

As for 47 degrees or whatever being perfectly fine, as CPUs can hit 95 °C... erm, no? There are chips which will have no issues with that, there are chips that do. Also, you have no idea at which point of the camera the temperature is taken. The sensor could be so far away that if at that place 47 °C is reached, parts of the chip are boiling.

Also, pumping out the heat to the casing/accepting high temperatures (say 95 °C) is a bad idea that no manufacturer in the right mind would accept on a mobile device. There'd be lawsuits. It boils (no pun intended) down to this: If the CPU heats up to nearly 100 °C, and the heat is immediately transfered to the casing, it is transfered to contact points. Best case scenario, the screen is used to dissipate heat, which damages the screen. Worst case: The photographers/videographers hands are burnt. I have a Samsung tablet where the heat output when not used in the keyboard casing is reduced. The CPU is throttled to roughly 1.1 GHz, vs 2+ GHz. Why? If the tablet is not in the casing, it is probably in the hands of the user. Allowing it to hit 90 °C would be BAD.

Another example is the MacBook Pro, Retina vs Touchbar version. The Retina is better at dissipating heat, however, hot air was blown over the screen, leading to discoloration on some devices. So Apple has fixed it by only piping heat to the rear, downwards. Unfortunately depending on how you use it this blocks the cooling solution. In any case, notebook manufacturers try to keep touch points cool enough, even if letting them get hotter it would mean better performance. But how about a camera? Which parts are not considered touchpoints? Would you be willing to accept skin burns?

Really, it seems like Canon should have been using heatpipes and a small fan. However that'd be bad for sealing, the camera would be bigger, etc. Or, more likely, Canon shouldn't offer these features internally in the first place, even if the camera would be capable enough.

[visionrouge]

8 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

What about removing the battery out completely?

If so, you will have to put the new time/date and all parameters each time you change battery on regular use.

My idea was just a test to do in order to prove what it seems to appear; the overheating warning is always override with a timer.

Removing the coin cell is the best way to do so, I'm agree,
(but not very convenient for a everyday use.)
 

[mechanicalEYE]

12 minutes ago, visionrouge said:

If so, you will have to put the new time/date and all parameters each time you change battery on regular use.

My idea was just a test to do in order to prove what it seems to appear; the overheating warning is always override with a timer.

Removing the coin cell is the best way to do so, I'm agree,
(but not very convenient for a everyday use.)
 

I'm not the guy to take on opening up a camera but today I'm outside in 102 degrees recording 4K HQ externally for 45 minutes straight with no overheat warning. ( Camera screen off ) and the camera was very HOT to the touch, much hotter than I've experienced at any point during my test and I have shot in 97 degrees where the camera shut down at 42 minutes. Only difference was that the screen was on before, and here it was off. The camera felt much hotter today though. It was hot enough that I was concerned.

I was pretty shocked that it didn't overheat, and even more shocked it didn't show the warning. I brought the camera indoors while it was still recording, grabbed my CFexpress card and inserted while camera was still recording. When you open the card door, the camera temporarily shuts down.

When I closed the door the camera went right back to recording through the Ninja V. I shut the Ninja V down, and my 4K HQ time allowance was 20 minutes.

I shut the camera down again, and back on it, it still read 20 minutes. About 5 minutes later the camera was showing 25 minutes, this is while the camera still felt very warm to the touch. 

[independent]

Just got my hands on a R5, tested w/ Ninja V. No cards, LCD display was off, I had mine closed to the body - recorded continuously at 4KHQ w/ autofocus (rf 50 1.2) and IS on. Recorded continuously until 1.5 hours - when the battery (regular LP-E6) died. No overheating temp indicator, but the body was HOT. Hotter than any body I've felt, and I've felt a lot of bodies.

 

[independent]

So maybe the HDMI out is somehow bypassing the artificial limits, or maybe it's bypassing the temp controls and damaging the camera. I don't know.

Regardless, and more importantly, the 8K Raw is the best I've ever seen. Point blank. Detail and color are next level - I think it's finally approaching what the eyes can resolve. Immersive, transparent, 3D, microcontrast, etc. 8K raw footage is truly a compilation of high res stills at 24 FPS. Can pull stills and send them to editorial—game changing in the way RED advertised w/ EPIC. But RED didn't have autofocus - this does. Every. Frame. Sharp. I was impressed by the BMPCC6K - the increase in resolution made a huge difference from 4k, and this R5 8K RAW is just as big of a jump. It's kind of staggering. You don't know what you've been missing unless you actually scrub through this footage, which you can in Resolve (good luck w/ the h265). 

Bottom line, the 4kHQ 24 seems viable w/ the Ninja (unless it destroys the camera). But who cares, you can get high quality 4K anywhere. More importantly 8K Raw is 100% the bees knees. That's the only news I care about from this point forward. Andrew, make it happen.

[Video Hummus]

24 minutes ago, mechanicalEYE said:

I'm not the guy to take on opening up a camera but today I'm outside in 102 degrees recording 4K HQ externally for 45 minutes straight with no overheat warning. ( Camera screen off ) and the camera was very HOT to the touch, much hotter than I've experienced at any point during my test and I have shot in 97 degrees where the camera shut down at 42 minutes. Only difference was that the screen was on before, and here it was off. The camera felt much hotter today though. It was hot enough that I was concerned.

I was pretty shocked that it didn't overheat, and even more shocked it didn't show the warning. I brought the camera indoors while it was still recording, grabbed my CFexpress card and inserted while camera was still recording. When you open the card door, the camera temporarily shuts down.

When I closed the door the camera went right back to recording through the Ninja V. I shut the Ninja V down, and my 4K HQ time allowance was 20 minutes.

I shut the camera down again, and back on it, it still read 20 minutes. About 5 minutes later the camera was showing 25 minutes, this is while the camera still felt very warm to the touch. 

Yet it takes 1 hours of sitting with sensor exposed and battery out and card slot open to get 5 more minutes.

Some serious bugs there.

[mechanicalEYE]

9 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Yet it takes 1 hours of sitting with sensor exposed and battery out and card slot open to get 5 more minutes.

Some serious bugs there.

I'm not sure what Canon has going on here but its strange behavior!

The way I see it there is no way this camera should have been providing cold times as hot as it was at the point where the Card was installed. No Joke. It was HOT HOT!  Sat for a total of 12 minutes and was at the 25 minutes for HQ. I have never let it sit with sensor exposed or card slot open. This is the same camera that shut down at 42 minutes in 97 degrees... with no card in body and would only allow 5 minutes of HQ recording once I put card in before. It shut down at 42 minutes indoors as well. Andrews idea cleared that process in someway... he'll have to chime in but it worked. In my eyes this is all software. The camera was HOT and it went from 20 to 25 minutes within like 3 minutes. Totally different camera today. somethings up with installing card while HDMI is plugged in or something.

What are your thoughts Andrew?

[ntblowz]

Saw it from the canonrumor forum

 

 

[Ben i B]

4 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Saw it from the canonrumor forum

 

 

I think the fact that the Canon overheats when recording internally could also mean that not oversampling is causing the heat but the compression. Cause that's the only thing the cam is not doing when recording to the Ninja V. Maybe there's a separate chip for H.265 encoding somewhere on the board that overheats quickly. But this would also not explain the long cool down times. But H.264 for example is meanwhile encoded by the GPU on computers and does not affect the CPU much.