P2020 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 10 hours ago, independent said: So maybe the HDMI out is somehow bypassing the artificial limits, or maybe it's bypassing the temp controls and damaging the camera. I don't know. Regardless, and more importantly, the 8K Raw is the best I've ever seen. Point blank. Detail and color are next level - I think it's finally approaching what the eyes can resolve. Immersive, transparent, 3D, microcontrast, etc. 8K raw footage is truly a compilation of high res stills at 24 FPS. Can pull stills and send them to editorial—game changing in the way RED advertised w/ EPIC. But RED didn't have autofocus - this does. Every. Frame. Sharp. I was impressed by the BMPCC6K - the increase in resolution made a huge difference from 4k, and this R5 8K RAW is just as big of a jump. It's kind of staggering. You don't know what you've been missing unless you actually scrub through this footage, which you can in Resolve (good luck w/ the h265). Bottom line, the 4kHQ 24 seems viable w/ the Ninja (unless it destroys the camera). But who cares, you can get high quality 4K anywhere. More importantly 8K Raw is 100% the bees knees. That's the only news I care about from this point forward. Andrew, make it happen. You make my day! I'm in waiting line for R5 ... 😉 Thank you! independent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
independent Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Ben i B said: I think the fact that the Canon overheats when recording internally could also mean that not oversampling is causing the heat but the compression. Cause that's the only thing the cam is not doing when recording to the Ninja V. Maybe there's a separate chip for H.265 encoding somewhere on the board that overheats quickly. But this would also not explain the long cool down times. But H.264 for example is meanwhile encoded by the GPU on computers and does not affect the CPU much. Perhaps, but then the 8K raw should have longer recording times than the 8k H265 or 4K HQ. So there is some artificial (arbitrary?) limitation or there’s something else going on. The only other plausible explanation is that bitrate, the amount of data being written, creates the overheating, real or preventative or artificial, which explains why the 8K Raw and 4K120 have the shortest recording times. So maybe it does come down to the cards after all, directly or indirectly. And the HDMI out to the NINJA aligns with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_connection Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 So it overheats right when cards are in the picture? Anyone looked at how much heat is generated while writing that much data? If USB drives can fry themselves writing at measly speed I'm sure these cards could as well. Unless there is a temp sensor on the card I can see that being an issue. I did not look too close at the thermal design but it might be done that way to keep heat away from sensor and cards slots. Since (as I have said forever) the CPU is probably not the biggest culprit for heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalEYE Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Ive had the camera show the overheat warning with CFexpress card installed, and without recording just at idle. Following the overheat warning I shut the camera down and powered on again instantly and the camera showed reduction in HQ recording times telling me I could only record 5 minutes of 4KHQ. This makes no sense after what I saw with the camera yesterday. Camera was the hottest I've ever felt on any camera. Shooting 4K HQ in 102 degrees... Counter went from 20 to 25 minutes fast, pretty much maintained full HQ time allowance for filming to cf express card Checked all modes 8K, 4K 120, and all times were as if I just turned the camera on. This was even when the camera was still pretty hot. No fridge, no leaf blower, no fans... just inserting the Cfexpress card while camera was recording via HDMI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
independent Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Yeah, it seems the temp controls are at least partially indirect, using a timer to prevent overheating. But somebody did restore their recording times by putting their camera in the freezer for 25 min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
independent Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 So a timer to prevent overheating, but a temperature monitor(s) that controls restore times....hm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalEYE Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 48 minutes ago, independent said: Yeah, it seems the temp controls are at least partially indirect, using a timer to prevent overheating. But somebody did restore their recording times by putting their camera in the freezer for 25 min. Thats why I'm questioning it... He had to put his in a freezer to regain time, I didn't have to after shooting 4K HQ continuously outdoors for 45 minutes in 102 degrees. Turned the camera off and on and saw the counter was at 20 minutes, then a few tics later went through all modes to see and confirm all times were as if the camera was never even on. This was while the camera was very warm to the touch. Canon can at least fix the recovery time, cause it definitely doesn't add up based on the test Andrew asked me to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBobsPhotography Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Assuming the R5 does in fact overheat and that additional cooling is beneficial, I just thought of a fan-placement I haven't seen before (perhaps with good reason). I usually use a dummy battery because I prefer to use LP-F batteries. A radial fan would actually fit inside the dummy battery. Cutting down on the left size of the exhaust might degrade the performance somewhat, but it should still work.. It is also half the height of the dummy battery (picture 2), which makes it possible to make half the height for exhaust and half for intake. The dummy battery already has 7.4v, hooking up a 12 V fan gives a nice breeze without much noise. It might be too noisy for the internal microphones, but is silent >10 cm away. This is not the hottest place on the camera, but any cooling is better than no cooling and the advantage of this over other cooling methods is that it would have zero impact on the ergonomics of the camera for anyone who is already using a dummy battery. To make this work, the dummy battery should have the casing removed in the direction it's supplying the main cooling. Alternatively it could be open on both wide sides but have barrier in the middle to separate the intake and the exhaust, giving it the shape on an H pillar. Sorry for the oversized images, I couldn't figure out how to resize it. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 15, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted August 15, 2020 On 8/13/2020 at 5:00 PM, mechanicalEYE said: Ive had the camera show the overheat warning with CFexpress card installed, and without recording just at idle. Following the overheat warning I shut the camera down and powered on again instantly and the camera showed reduction in HQ recording times telling me I could only record 5 minutes of 4KHQ. This makes no sense after what I saw with the camera yesterday. Camera was the hottest I've ever felt on any camera. Shooting 4K HQ in 102 degrees... Counter went from 20 to 25 minutes fast, pretty much maintained full HQ time allowance for filming to cf express card Checked all modes 8K, 4K 120, and all times were as if I just turned the camera on. This was even when the camera was still pretty hot. No fridge, no leaf blower, no fans... just inserting the Cfexpress card while camera was recording via HDMI. It correlates to what I see with a bit of light stills shooting, no video, then as soon as you go into video mode 4K HQ runtime is really right down in region of 5-10 mins. You'd think after turning the camera off with it not ever having recorded a frame of 8K or 4K HQ, it would cool quite quickly after a few stills but the long recovery cripple clock still seems to tick at the same slow rate! I have also tried putting a CFexpress card in the freezer and bringing that into the camera with the 4K HQ clock down at 20 mins, and it didn't budge at all, so if it is reading temps from SMART for hot cards it could have fooled me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalEYE Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I was planning to try placing the CFexpress card in the freezer so glad you tried it. Not shocked it didn't produce any eye opening results. Will be trying another "HOT" shoot today, it is supposed to hit 104.... 😳 I will follow this with immediately snapping a few shots to have a look at the exif data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalEYE Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Todays test: Recorded 4K HQ externally with Ninja V - Canon LP Battery in camera for 1 hour continuous with no card in camera. ( at 1 hr the cameras very HOT to the touch ) all this in direct sun light, and very hot. No overheat warning. At the hour mark, I take the camera indoors but continue the recording externally. I immediately insert the CFexpress card while still externally recording. The camera temporarily shuts down but immediately comes back on when the card door is shut, it continues to record externally. still no overheat warning. I shut down the external recording, camera reads 25 minutes available in 4k HQ internally... as well as full times available in all other modes. Switch modes then take two photos back to back. The first photo shows 65C in the exif data for camera temp The second photo shows 64C in the exif data for camera temp... these photos were a second apart. Emanuel and ntblowz 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalEYE Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Another photo just now, exif data shows the R5 camera temp is 38 C, this is within minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 15, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted August 15, 2020 So EXIF temp reaches same figure for both external 4K and internal 8K recording?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWX Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 So you can do 4KHQ externally for an over 1hr in the heat then switch to 8K internally for 20 min...smh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalEYE Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: So EXIF temp reaches same figure for both external 4K and internal 8K recording?! The external files does not show camera temp in exif data. The reason why I snapped the photos immediately after recording internal and external. Which was 65 C, and then 64 C for second photo. My thinking was, if the camera is smoking hot at the end of a continuous external recording, once you immediately switch over to internal recording, camera temp is now reported with CFexpress card so the camera should still respond as if internal temp is high enough to produce warning or shut down based on temp at that time.?? Is my thinking way off base? 1 hour ago, DWX said: So you can do 4KHQ externally for an over 1hr in the heat then switch to 8K internally for 20 min...smh. Exactly... doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 @mechanicalEYE beta testing for Canon. Non of that behavior makes any sense especially since that same timer will decrease to zero with the camera not recording anything and sitting in a menu. Sounds like a bug in Canons cripple timer implementation. mechanicalEYE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalEYE Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 24 minutes ago, Video Hummus said: @mechanicalEYE beta testing for Canon. Non of that behavior makes any sense especially since that same timer will decrease to zero with the camera not recording anything and sitting in a menu. Sounds like a bug in Canons cripple timer implementation. 💯 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucas Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Beware the next firmware update perhaps. Canon might give us 5 minutes extra recording time in 4K HQ, 4k 60, and 4K 120, but they might "fix" the HDMI recording length without cards. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 They've just "fixed" the deal breaker for my non-existent purchase until they or anyone will overcome the issue, this is a mere toy : ) A joke, a bad joke (but by misfortune, not mine ;- ) They put us to hate the brand, so it is such an achievement... : X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalEYE Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 How can the camera build up heat to throw the overheat warning sitting in the menus at idle but run for extended times externally without getting a warning? Firmware cripple?? How can one shoot in 102 degrees externally for an hour with a camera that is said to overheat without even a overheat warning, but overheat internally indoors in cool air? Firmware cripple?? How can one get exif data that says the camera had a temp of 65 C / 149 degrees in 100 + degrees operate without an overheat warning but another user saw overheat warning at 46 C?? Firmware bugged the F out?? Doesn't really matter if it was intentional or accidental, it doesn't make sense and should be corrected. kaylee and Emanuel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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