EOSHD testing finds Canon EOS R5 overheating to be fake

[greggreenhaw]

Wheres magic lantern when you need them

time to update your canon rep video andrew

[greggreenhaw]

what if you set the clock forward maybe the 25 min cool off would go away 😹 

[John Matthews]

I have to say the reports of the R5 not being able to record 8k video again for 2 hours after only recording 20 minutes seems wildly against all thermal common sense (even when put in the freezer). I can throw  almost any object in the sun, add energy to it, and put in a room in normal temperature and the object will return to that temperature rather quickly. A camera doesn't have that much thermal mass that it would stay at super-hot temperatures for that long... it doesn't add up. If it did have that kind of mass, it would make a pretty good heater in winter. Canon is screwing with its customers once again.

[amateurmike]

This is great sleuthing, Andrew! Please keep up the good work, and ignore the Canboys!

[Video Hummus]

7 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

I have to say the reports of the R5 not being able to record 8k video again for 2 hours after only recording 20 minutes seems wildly against all thermal common sense (even when put in the freezer). I can throw  almost any object in the sun, add energy to it, and put in a room in normal temperature and the object will return to that temperature rather quickly. A camera doesn't have that much thermal mass that it would stay at super-hot temperatures for that long... it doesn't add up. If it did have that kind of mass, it would make a pretty good heater in winter. Canon is screwing with its customers once again.

Funny how the laws of thermodynamics and physics work, eh? So many awesome things and cool technology we have today yet somehow those laws and physics are sucked into a black hole around the R5....

Its not the weather sealing insulating the camera, it isn’t the lack of heatpipe or heatsink to cool components, it isn’t the scorching hot ambient temperatures (or the freezing ones at that!), no its the classic, completely bizarre, canon cripple hammer coming down hard.

I think they might be open to litigation. The overheating icon on the screen, the increasing evidence that the overheating issue is bogus, the complete lack or care to mitigate heat inside the camera. They have some explaining to do.

[ajay]

1 minute ago, Video Hummus said:

I think they might be open to litigation. The overheating icon on the screen, the increasing evidence that the overheating issue is bogus, the complete lack or care to mitigate heat inside the camera. They have some explaining to do.

I'm not a lawyer, but I find it difficult to believe that they could be open to litigation. They aren't harming anyone (other than messing with our heads) are they?

The best thing is to kick them in the pants by not buying their cripple-hammered products.

[amateurmike]

23 minutes ago, greggreenhaw said:

what if you set the clock forward maybe the 25 min cool off would go away 😹 

I was thinking something in the camera keeps track of the recovery time, so if it could be disabled, maybe by completely removing the power to it, like a battery or a capacitor, that could wipe the recovery clock also. But someone should test your hypothesis also. 🙂

[eit412]

I am not certain that the temperature reported in EXIF is the temperature of processor.  It could be sensor temp.  The sensor temp would be good to know for noise in long duration shots.  The sensor would cool much more quickly as the processor is much deeper in the camera. Just my wild guess.

[crevice]

@Andrew Reid we are getting close with these tests, but I think the final way to test is what others have mentioned. We need to absolutely blast the R5 with cold air while the physical backing of the camera is removed and then placing the camera in a fridge/freezer/cooler the entire time. This would mean heat isn’t getting trapped inside and cold air is blasting the components. I would suggest no usage or recording at all before the test, so it’s a truly fresh start. Hit record, place it in an absolutely frigid condition with the back of the camera open, and we watch what happens. If it shuts down there is nothing else to explore - we have our answer once and for all. There is no way that a camera with its backing physically open, with cold air around 1-30 degrees reaching It’s components would overheat unless it’s software limitations. If you don’t own the R5 or don’t want to destroy yours, you could prob create a fund page and you’ll get enough money to fund an R5 for these specific and slightly destructive tests in less than 24 hours. A lot of people have eyes on you and not just on here, I have seen your tests mentioned on several Facebook groups, Twitter, etc. 

[wondo]

5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hello Wondo

Hard to say isn't it? I cannot figure out the business side of it at all. Surely the EOS R5 at 4400 euros is an important release that makes more profit overall than a more niche C200. So either it is internal politics that have played out badly, or possibly a buggy cripple algorithm. But really I do not have the answer. Canon owes us that. It could even be internal sabotage for all I know.

The strangest things for me are the following facts:

- Canon marketed it as 'comfortable on C300 III productions' and made a big thing about the 8K RAW, so were marketing even aware of the limitation?

- The cool down times are unreasonable. After a shut down at 62C, I can leave my camera on a desk for 1 hour turned off and come back to find only 5 mins 8K. There is no chance in hell any silicon or metal stays above 60C for that period of time inside a device that has no power. I even removed the battery, took the lens off and opened the card door to vent the internals. No 'weather sealing' at play here.

- There is only a small possibility that the EXIF temp is a long way off the CPU core temps. Also the Chinese guys with the heat guns were able to read the real surface temp of the chip and back of camera, which correlate closely to the EXIF temp we read from the intervalometer shots

- Why go to so much effort to build this absolute cutting edge machine.... Only not to let us use it?

It's a mega camera. That they saw fit to do this is so far beyond any realm of understanding.

People talk about plastic melting or safety regulations... But none of it can explain why 46C after 30 mins causes the camera to shut down immediately when switched to video mode, but 46C after 2 mins allows you to record 15 mins of 8K.

46C or even 62C are so far below what is considered unsafe.

The camera is not even hot to the touch.

Pulling the Cfexpress card out after the max 8K recording time is up, and that is hot but not uncomfortably... all normal. It gets hotter in my ProGrade card reader.

hey andrew,

what puzzles me most is how naive and irrational this whole thing is.

as you said, marketing it as perfect companion to a c300II without knowing about the bugs? those guys are not 3 year olds or us president....

so there must be a plan or an idea behind this... just not sure what it is! 🙂

[mechanicalEYE]

So I just tried recording externally with R5 screen off.  (Using the R5 battery, with no cards in camera)

This was indoors in a cool room.

I started the recording on the Ninja at 09:14

I stopped the recording at 10:15

Recorded 4K HQ continuously for 1hr and 1 minute with no overheat warning on the R5 screen, and no overheat shutdown through the duration of that hour.

I immediately shut camera down, then unplugged the HDMI cable, and removed battery.

I then reinserted the battery and put in the CFexpress card, turned camera on and overheat counter said I could record 15 minutes.
 

[ajay]

 

16 minutes ago, crevice said:

@Andrew Reid we are getting close with these tests, but I think the final way to test is what others have mentioned. We need to absolutely blast the R5 with cold air while the physical backing of the camera is removed and then placing the camera in a fridge/freezer/cooler the entire time. This would mean heat isn’t getting trapped inside and cold air is blasting the components. I would suggest no usage or recording at all before the test, so it’s a truly fresh start. Hit record, place it in an absolutely frigid condition with the back of the camera open, and we watch what happens. If it shuts down there is nothing else to explore - we have our answer once and for all. There is no way that a camera with its backing physically open, with cold air around 1-30 degrees reaching It’s components would overheat unless it’s software limitations. If you don’t own the R5 or don’t want to destroy yours, you could prob create a fund page and you’ll get enough money to fund an R5 for these specific and slightly destructive tests in less than 24 hours. A lot of people have eyes on you and not just on here, I have seen your tests mentioned on several Facebook groups, Twitter, etc. 

Totally agree. Who wants to test this??? Andrew???🤔

[theraywong]

14 hours ago, Katrikura said:

I think Andrew should document the entire process, visually and make a documentary about the ethics of companies that manufacture cameras, we already have the case of Canon and Red. Even the comments from the forum could serve as support for the documentary.

 

It would definitely make a compelling documentary in the right hands - I'd be up for helping to fund it.

[crazyrunner33]

I'm sure it's been tried before, but I wonder if the memory clearing trick from the 5D works. Pulling the battery, turning on the camera and hold down the trigger for a second. With any luck, some sort of memory trick might defeat the waiting period if the camera is at a reasonable temp.

 

[zerocool22]

Awesome work Andrew!

This will prolly also render the tilta solution worthless.

[Mustafa Ali]

1 hour ago, mechanicalEYE said:

So I just tried recording externally with R5 screen off.  (Using the R5 battery, with no cards in camera)

This was indoors in a cool room.

I started the recording on the Ninja at 09:14

I stopped the recording at 10:15

Recorded 4K HQ continuously for 1hr and 1 minute with no overheat warning on the R5 screen, and no overheat shutdown through the duration of that hour.

I immediately shut camera down, then unplugged the HDMI cable, and removed battery.

I then reinserted the battery and put in the CFexpress card, turned camera on and overheat counter said I could record 15 minutes.
 

I did something similar. I recorded 4k 24p HQ externally via the Atomos with no cards in for 35 mins or so. Then shut the camera and inserted the CfExpress card and tried to record in 4k120fps and see how much time I get. I only got 5 mins left in 4k 120!! So this tells me, using the ninja V is only good for recording 4k HQ 24 fps and after that the camera becomes useless for any high frame rate recording in 4k, let alone 8k. Got hit hard with the cripple hammer lol. 

 

 

[Cliff Totten]

16 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The temperature reported by the EXIF data more-or-less corresponds with the Chinese heat gun thermometer tests out there as well and it closely resembles the ambient temp of my room at the moment, I am sweltering in 30 degrees heat!

I suppose the easy test would be to cool the camera right down in a freezer, quickly take 1 shot then analyse that EXIF data.

It is very unlikely the camera is reporting wrong data in the EXIF. It is very basic to get right, even for Canon.

Andrew....does your app give you componant temps? Can you get a sensor heat value by itself. There are probably 3 or more key componant temp values that need to be observed. The sensor itself is the largest silicon in the camera. 

[newfoundmass]

15 hours ago, wolf33d said:

And I will be one of them. I could not care less about Canon, Sony or any other business and how they treat their customers. 

This attitude is what has enabled companies to walk all over us. It's so sad to see it. 

[noone]

7 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

This attitude is what has enabled companies to walk all over us. It's so sad to see it. 

Nah, it is just a company that makes toys for us to play with after all.       

If the toy is really really good and more so after they fix it to work as it was originally sold, not that many will care.

A few Canon haters will continue for decades with a new version of "Sony root kit"

Not saying it is right, just how it is...

No matter,

Surely this needs a public response from Canon now.

Silence will prove what Andrew is saying.

How about they put out a white paper on the R5 heat "management" if they say he is wrong and they have not crippled it really badly (probably because they made it so good, they kinda thought they had to).

It will be interesting to see just how they handle it and it is not like it will just go away.

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, Mustafa Ali said:

I did something similar. I recorded 4k 24p HQ externally via the Atomos with no cards in for 35 mins or so. Then shut the camera and inserted the CfExpress card and tried to record in 4k120fps and see how much time I get. I only got 5 mins left in 4k 120!! So this tells me, using the ninja V is only good for recording 4k HQ 24 fps and after that the camera becomes useless for any high frame rate recording in 4k, let alone 8k. Got hit hard with the cripple hammer lol. 

 

 

Shame on you Canon!

 

8 minutes ago, noone said:

Nah, it is just a company that makes toys for us to play with after all.       

If the toy is really really good and more so after they fix it to work as it was originally sold, not that many will care.

A few Canon haters will continue for decades with a new version of "Sony root kit"

Not saying it is right, just how it is...

No matter,

Surely this needs a public response from Canon now.

Silence will prove what Andrew is saying.

How about they put out a white paper on the R5 heat "management" if they say he is wrong and they have not crippled it really badly (probably because they made it so good, they kinda thought they had to).

It will be interesting to see just how they handle it and it is not like it will just go away.

I still hope they will come to try fixing this embarrassing mess.

Brand value is definitely higher than the sale of a few C line units.