EOSHD testing finds Canon EOS R5 overheating to be fake

[HiHamsterLuna]

Have you guys not heard yet that the EOS R5 can record for 4 hours in HQ mode by using an external recorder?? 

 

[horshack]

3 hours ago, ajay said:

Get a case of it.

In all seriousness, everyone so far has tried to cool the camera down externally and not internally. If you want to be absolutely, positively be sure that Canon is using the cripple hammer, it would be best to chill down the camera ASAP and retest record limits. Don't wait hours. Don't try putting it in the freezer. By getting the circuit boards chilled within minutes will give you a definitive answer to whether Canon is intentionally crippling the camera.

Do we know for sure there is only one temperature sensor in the camera? Maybe Canon is reading the temperature of a different component other than the one in your experiment.

I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but we need a secondary test to prove beyond a doubt that Canon is intentionally crippling this camera. This is truly a big deal.

Chilling the circuit boards directly and rapidly will prove this out.

(Last post on this. I don't mean to keep repeating this but I do feel it's important. I'm done.)

The crippling has already been disproven (at least the recovery-period aspect of it) - the poster on FM (link) was able to get the full available 8K video recording time after putting the camera in the freezer for just 25 minutes following a thermal shutdown.

[Mikelama]

I dunno.   You can say all of this, but the flip side is that the camera should be overheating.  
 

You’re saying it’s not getting hot, etc.   It’s cooling down super fast.   Without good heatsinks   And it’s a full frame moving tons of data.  In a small enclosed body.   

you can measure what you want, and get results that seem one way.  But just _thinking_ about what is happening without measurements, the camera _should_ be overheating for a time.  I don’t think canon is so advanced that they’ve solved a problem that Sony and others haven’t solved.  

you’re also making a lot of assumptions.  “Canon should have the exif data right Bc reporting temp is easy”.   You can’t make any assumptions.   Stuff isn’t working right, anything could be broken.  

[Avenger 2.0]

The PCB has a rechargeable backup battery, so if there are any timers (which I'm not sure of at the moment), removing the battery will not make any difference as the backup battery keeps the date/time and any other timers counting. A good way to test is remove that backup battery first!

[Inazuma]

Wow this is crazy. Great report Andrew. Thor would be envious of this incredible cripple hammer.

[Oliver Daniel]

It’s insane to see so many people figuring out cooling solutions and even resorting to portable freezers. What’s going on here? People celebrating that they got through a shoot without the cam having a tantrum. Madness. 

With this most serious of all cripple hammers, this camera isn’t even adequate as a reliable B-cam. 

It’s a shame, it sucks a bit, but there’s a crap load of other tools that will do just fine. 

I do however applaud the detective work, interesting. Well done. 

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

Thanks Andrew for the report. It is incredible that in 2020 anybody could have thought a product launch so stupid. Don't they know iFixit, Roger Cicala from LensRentals?? Do someone really think at Canon they could pull this out??

[John Matthews]

In Canon's defense, if they release a camera that provides 8k, full-frame sensor, decent colors and that's easily editable, they'll have a few problems. First, there's potential that the camera will make the cineline redundant, not that they don't have "better" ergonomic and accessibility. Second, they must have sunk a bunch of money of R&D in those cineline cameras (not that the R5 wouldn't benefit from it).

I think the real problem is like what had happened to still cameras. People have still cameras that are definitely good enough (hell, phones are for many people). Most people won't upgrade unless real IQ or performance can be easily felt.

Canon wants to "milk" the situation for as long as possible, trying to give substantial IQ and performance increases with limitations. This year, we have 20 minutes of 8k and have to wait 2 hours. Next year, we'll get 22 minutes of 8k and have to wait 1.5 hours. Just a little bit every year so we keep buying the camera that has less limitations. We end up with 29.59 minutes of 8k and only 2 minutes of waiting time. Want no waiting time? You still need to get the cineline cameras and by then, they'll have even more capabilities. All the while, they keep sell the "same" camera, changing only the firmware and improve profitability with manufacturing processes. Not a bad model for making money, is it?

[Andrew Reid]

9 hours ago, HiHamsterLuna said:

Have you guys not heard yet that the EOS R5 can record for 4 hours in HQ mode by using an external recorder?? 

Yeah. Yet still people are claiming the sensor gets too hot?

[zerocool22]

9 hours ago, HiHamsterLuna said:

Have you guys not heard yet that the EOS R5 can record for 4 hours in HQ mode by using an external recorder?? 

 

Yeah which is pretty good for interviews which has the benefit of recording prores instead of h265 as well. 
But for quick B-roll shots, or while travelling an external recorder is not going to cut it. So we def need a lot better internal recording durations. 

[KaiS]

To verify the findings I'd use a small temperature probe inside the card slot.

The card's contact area seems to be located close enough to the critical parts (CPU/RAM) to give a reasonable representation of what's goig on inside.

Even more so during the cooling down phase when no extra heat is generated.

[anonim]

14 hours ago, wolf33d said:

When I say that I do not care, I mean that I do not care if they put a limitation in the camera if then they remove it. 
A company is here to make profit. When they "listen" like Fuji and bring you a good feature update, that's not to make you happy or because they are nice guys. Fuji CEO couldn't care less about you, as much as Canon CEO. They do bring that update because they think you are more likely to buy their camera and stay with them if they do it. They do it for your money. 

Stop being blind, camera manufacturers are not charity. They want to make money, and they happen to have different strategies for doing so. Canon strategy is to cripple lower priced camera to have you buy a more expensive one. Fuji strategy is to bring you software update and pretend they listened to you. I agree that Fuji strategy is much better. Yet for my need, the R5 could be a much better tool than any Fuji or Panasonic on the market. At the end of the day is what TOOL do you need, and which company is making that tool. The tool I need today, a hybrid 50/50 photo/video FF camera with 4K60/120 and IBIS and great AF only exists with Canon appart from their soft limitation. They remove the limitation I buy it. they don't remove it I don't buy it. Nobody is walking over me, I am making a choice based on my need. If you don't buy the R5 in case they fix it despite the fact it was the tool you needed just to punish them, you actually roll over yourself. 

I share this opinion - or feeling 🙂 As all nowadays  globalist companies Canon fundamentally think just about profit, and all their rhetoric  that may allude on ethic is pure fake, total hypocritical and artificial. I don't really expecting any sort of moral attitude from their side, their all behavior or possible correction of behavior is strictly determined by market and profit answer. They are simply fundamentally immoral per definition, and accusing them from moral standpoint is inadequate... when all state/society morality and legality actually is just matter of degree-tolerance to inevitable corruption everywhere.

But what makes me - as visitor of this forum - feel so good with mr Reid effort, is full exposing of that so-call powerful youtube influencers that disgustingly pretend that are on "our" side, some of them even be so shameless to point out that are not paid by manufacturers.  Moreover, I feel satisfaction that mr Read's pattern of attitude seems to now stands out in spite of being during last months convicted as aggressive and non-collegiate toward his thematic internet colleagues.

Simply, I greatly enjoy (and easily identify myself) in every successful example of "stubborn idealistic little man against powerful hypocritical system" battle 🙂

[Oscar]

hi there Andrew. Your findings are absolutely right. It s just a marketing strategy to guide users to another level of camera, another division that is almost forgotten, the C*** camera division such as c300 and so. If you create a perfect mirrorles slr with 8k option for 4000€, whats the point to buy a film camera even if rolling shutter is better controlled, more fps, inbody ND filters and more already in the camera? Mirrorless is cheaper, lighter, more 3rd party parts, more lenses... I think they took us for fools and you find out. I salute you for this incredible finding and i support you in any way that you will do in the future for this kind of investigations.

[jgharding]

well this really is an omnishambles isn't it? It just gets worse with every new article.

If they had just called it a stills camera with spare video modes people may not have cared so much. But marketing it as an 8K RAW beast then having it not work properly for too long (either because of heat or because that would make it too good and cannibalise other sales) is a terrible marketing mis-step.

I can't imagine the meetings they're having...
 

[Stan Jones]

Canon need to either have a recall, or put out a firmware update that will correct this huge problem!!! 

[Brian Flint]

14 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

Most embedded non-volatile memory has a max write cycle of 200,000. A separate EEPROM or FRAM, has higher write/erase cycles, but I doubt they added another chip to do this.

Yes you are right. To prevent too many write cycles the timer would have its count value written to the non-volatile memory every, say, 2 minutes. At this rate the 200,000 max write cycle would take a 277 days of continuous use to reach the limit. It it is assumed the camera is in use, say 4 hours, of every day then the limit would be reached in 4  1/2 years.

[Davos]

I've seen several reports on Fred Miranda and elsewhere that the R5 freezes after stills shooting, only fixed by dropping the battery out.

This sort of issue should be fixable via firmware but again quality control issue.

[Brian Flint]

2 hours ago, KaiS said:

To verify the findings I'd use a small temperature probe inside the card slot.

The card's contact area seems to be located close enough to the critical parts (CPU/RAM) to give a reasonable representation of what's goig on inside.

Even more so during the cooling down phase when no extra heat is generated.

I would agree with this. If very cold ( or fairly cold ) air could be forced into the Memory card area ( Memory cards are removed ) some this cold air should flow past the CPU. My experience ( as an engineer ) is that even a slight amount of moving air across the top surface of a chip ( cpu in this case ) will have a significant cooling effect. 

[Video Hummus]

 

We can safety rule out the sensor heat as being the main culprit if people are able to record 4KHQ externally for hours on end.

It is either something going on with the CFExpress cards getting to hot or some kind of timer that is started when they are inserted.

The fact that the camera power cycles when the memory or battery doors open may be a hint that that may be the case.

Please keep testing @Andrew Reid and @mechanicalEYE very helpful for people. 

[Video Hummus]

5 minutes ago, baker21 said:

"EOSHD testing finds Canon EOS R5 overheating to be fake"

 

I heard Red sued you before... statements like that have to really make Canon mad. Im glad you speak power to truth.

 

I watched jinny mag videos and I was shocked to say the least

 

But canon was upfront about the overheating. You think its Fake? I don't believe its Fake. If 8k was so easy C500ii would do 8k. Venice would do 8k. You need a $50k red for 8k. Or now u got 12k bmd ursa. And zcam e2 f8. $6k.

 

But 8k is Not Easy or everyone would do it.

 

Canon can't turn off "artificial timers or limits written in software code" . 

 

Its like a Nascar engine in a car. Sure the car could go over 200mph. But they do things to keep the car under 195mph that way the car can do 5000laps without blowing up.

 

What do you want from Canon? U think they can just turn off a timer and then it won't overheat???

 

This ain't something u can fix in firmware.  Sure u could remove all safety software measures but then your camera will blow up at about the 25th lap.

 

If 8k raw was that easy.. Everyone would do it..

Meanwhile, Andrew and many others are testing the camera to see what the real boundaries are.

Heard of Magic Lantern? Lots of cameras capable of much more than what Canon chose to give you.