EOSHD testing finds Canon EOS R5 overheating to be fake

[Andrew Reid]

How can it "overheat" just switched on in the Wifi menu, but do 4K HQ via HDMI just fine?

The processing loads surely are not higher in the Wifi menu compared to outputting 8K to the DIGIC X image processor, processing it, resampling it to 4K 10bit and sending it out to an HDMI recorder?

So either the HDMI mode bypasses the cripple clock accidentally (a bug in the cripple hammer). or Atomos persuaded them to turn the timer off?

Nothing else makes sense.

[horshack]

5 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

How can it "overheat" just switched on in the Wifi menu, but do 4K HQ via HDMI just fine?

The processing loads surely are not higher in the Wifi menu compared to outputting 8K to the DIGIC X image processor, processing it, resampling it to 4K 10bit and sending it out to an HDMI recorder?

So either the HDMI mode bypasses the cripple clock accidentally (a bug in the cripple hammer). or Atomos persuaded them to turn the timer off?

Nothing else makes sense.

By overheat do you mean shutdown or do you mean presenting the overheating warning to the user? 4KHQ seems to run over HDMI while the overheat warning is active (per my understanding of mechanicalEYE's post above, so it's not clear what unique significance that warning carries since the camera still operates externally when its active.

[mechanicalEYE]

 

11 minutes ago, horshack said:

By overheat do you mean shutdown or do you mean presenting the overheating warning to the user? 4KHQ seems to run over HDMI while the overheat warning is active (per my understanding of mechanicalEYE's post above, so it's not clear what unique significance that warning carries since the camera still operates externally when its active.

It's not like you can just plug in the HDMI cable and forget about overheating... with the R5 screen active, I couldn't get past 42 minutes recording externally as it would still overheat and shuts down at 42 minutes. ( tried this 4 times, hot and cool ambient temps made no difference ) During these times the camera was never as hot as it was to the touch during my test yesterday.

Yesterday with the R5 screen in a power save state, recording 4K HQ externally over HDMI, the record times seems as if they'd go as long as you have battery life left. 

As hot as the camera was yesterday, I'm shocked the it showed full record times in all modes internally,  with no cool down time required. Base on this experience I question the cool down requirements and overheat times. With what other users have experienced there should have been no way that my camera should have been able to record 8k, HQ, or 4K 120 at max time lengths internally... seriously, it was way too hot. I think there was something to inserting the Card while the camera was actively recording externally. Maybe others can try this, and see what the camera shows for internal recording.

 

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Basically the timer kicks in whenever 8K or 4K HQ is enabled in the menus and there is a live-view feed on the LCD or EVF (even if it is hidden behind a menu overlay).

That's probably just how they implemented the cripple clock in firmware.

When the screen is off it probably disables the mechanism they are using to calculate run times... either by error, or on purpose to satisfy Atomos.

That the scorching hot ambient temps and black alloy casing absorbing so much external heat don't impact the timer, has to tell you something!

[mechanicalEYE]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Basically the timer kicks in whenever 8K or 4K HQ is enabled in the menus and there is a live-view feed on the LCD or EVF (even if it is hidden behind a menu overlay).

That's probably just how they implemented the cripple clock in firmware.

When the screen is off it probably disables the mechanism they are using to calculate run times... either by error, or on purpose to satisfy Atomos.

That the scorching hot ambient temps and black alloy casing absorbing so much external heat don't impact the timer, has to tell you something!

 

[wolf33d]

I can’t believe 80% of the internet are in disbelief with the truth. 
Some weird humans will invent the most non sense to say that no Canon didn’t cripple anything and did their best they could. L o L.

We have a dozen proof they did not do their best by far with that overheating. 

Canon fucked up. Let’s see if they make it right now. Firmware update with less recording limit already rumored by CR. 
I have a very bad feeling that Canon will update their crippled software by allowing a few minutes more recording but still very long recovery and the same cripple timer, just to say « hey we listened ». With no real world change for us. Obviously they are not gonna remove the thing altogether or that would mean telling the public « we took everyone for a fool thinking it would never be discovered, sorry to be the dumbest company on this planet ». No chance with those Japanese. 
 

Jesus. We were so close with that R5. So close. Frustrating to say the least.

[Hanriverprod]

My brain cells are crying in agony reading some of these posts. Can't you just ban these people coming here to argue in bad faith just to obfuscate progress?

[kaylee]

crippleclock.exe

[Cliff Totten]

90% of us here are NOT shocked about this R5 stuff. We have been watching the industry do this same sort of crap for 20+ years. Camera crippling is a necessity in the camera industry. Its a vital strategy to separate, split and divide camera models into various customer teirs. Without crippling, every company's fleet gets overlapped and consumer cannibalism goes wild.

So yeah....if anybody is in the 10% "shocked" catagory,...then shame on you. I have to laugh as either you are a complete industry "noobie" or you literally just have NOT been paying attention whatsoever....not even a little bit! 

I posted at the beginning of the year that the R5 would have extremely limited recording restrictions due to a Cannot source that tipped me off to this.

This was a calculated marketing decision, NOT a mistake in any way.

Sadly.....camera crippling has served companies very well for 20+ years. It will still be here long after all of us are gone.

[Hanriverprod]

It’s not crippling it’s the cynicism that everyone finds offensive. In fact this is canon’s snarky answer to all the criticism built over the years over their crippling. It’s like the C200. You can have the usual 8bit but you also get the completely impractical raw and also no 10bit which is what most professionals would use. Now you can’t accuse them of crippling. It’s the same cynicism with the R5. You get hq4k AND 8k so you can’t accuse them of crippling. But they can only be used for 20 minutes every 3 hours otherwise just use the line skipping 4k that was meh even 5 years ago. So before you point fingers and say we’re all noobs for pointing out this new level of cynicism from Canon maybe you should look in the mirror and try to see what’s really goin on. Noob. 

[Avenger 2.0]

If they would just have limited the 8k and 4k hq recording to a fixed max time like say even 2 minutes instead of an overheating timer, it would have been usable as a b-cam.

[k-robert]

You are right about this Andrew, this happens on purpose. 
A pre-programmed sophisticated hammer. More a "bummer-hammer", as we are not so naive idiots. 
But I am not surprised at all, this was to be expected, Canon's usual business practices.... 

One of my friends has been servicing printers for ages. A few years ago my "all in one" Canon printer suddenly died with an error code. The strange thing was that the error code mentioned the printing head but not only printing, copying did not function either.  

I called my friend, he asked for the model number and how old it was. When I told him 6-7 years, he started to laugh. He explained, the cheap printers have app. 3 years, and the medium segment, like mine, have 6-7, then they just die. Actually a  preprogrammed "suicide-code" kills them. Most printer manufacturer do something like this but Canon is the most brutal. Many years ago the printers just said "error code xx" but it became too obvious, so Canon has implemented hundreds of error codes, and nowadays one of them comes up randomly to create the obituary. 

Servicing the defect printer head, I mean the "printer head in coma", would cost more than a new printer. Just allowing the copy function to operate was not possible. Checkmate. 
The reason is well-known, greed. I have been in business for many years and personally, I go NEVER back to a company where I have experienced so immense lack of business ethic. Just think back to the previous Canon models with missing 24p.... 

Canon has been market leader for many years but I still can't understand, how a corporation can become so arrogant, they purposely annoy their customers in stead of trying to please them. Especially now, in this hostile business environment for the camera industry. But people are preordering these cameras, so we obviously need a lot larger economic crisis... 

[User]

38 minutes ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

If they would just have limited the 8k and 4k hq recording to a fixed max time like say even 2 minutes instead of an overheating timer, it would have been usable as a b-cam.

Or what if after 2 minutes, a special tray opened up where one could insert themselves?

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

7 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

My brain cells are crying in agony reading some of these posts. Can't you just ban these people coming here to argue in bad faith just to obfuscate progress?

+1

I've already got rid of numerous accounts to save our eyeballs and sanity, but apparently even more need to go.

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

It’s not crippling it’s the cynicism that everyone finds offensive. In fact this is canon’s snarky answer to all the criticism built over the years over their crippling. It’s like the C200. You can have the usual 8bit but you also get the completely impractical raw and also no 10bit which is what most professionals would use. Now you can’t accuse them of crippling. It’s the same cynicism with the R5. You get hq4k AND 8k so you can’t accuse them of crippling. But they can only be used for 20 minutes every 3 hours otherwise just use the line skipping 4k that was meh even 5 years ago. So before you point fingers and say we’re all noobs for pointing out this new level of cynicism from Canon maybe you should look in the mirror and try to see what’s really goin on. Noob. 

Very much agree, it's a new tactic from Canon based on usability rather than limiting specs. They've realised limiting specs hurt sales and brand reputation. So it's the same thing in different clothing now. Make the high-end features unusable. Apparently $4000 is not enough for Canon and they want the full $15,000 from you if you want high-end specs AND usability.

And this is from a company who wants us all to rush out and buy $2K RF lenses for our crippled $4K bodies?! They can fuck off.

[Hanriverprod]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Very much agree, it's a new tactic from Canon based on usability rather than limiting specs. They've realised limiting specs hurt sales and brand reputation. So it's the same thing in different clothing now. Make the high-end features unusable. Apparently $4000 is not enough for Canon and they want the full $15,000 from you if you want high-end specs AND usability.

And this is from a company who wants us all to rush out and buy $2K RF lenses for our crippled $4K bodies?! They can fuck off.

It would be infuriating if it wasn't so depressing with such lovely images coming out of these broken cameras.

[Andrew Reid]

Absolutely. Nobody would care if it wasn't for the fact that an incredible camera has been kneecapped.

[no_connection]

Why do noone want to put a dummy battery in there and measure power draw? Energy in = heat out. That will confirm how much power each mode take and how much total heat is generated.

[Snowfun]

6 minutes ago, no_connection said:

total heat is generated.

Not sure that is the issue. It’s a question of how much heat a certain component(s) generates and, possibly more critically, how the software interprets that to initiate a shutdown. 
The latter could well be a combination of temperature, increase in temperature and time. Very little to do with the total heat generated by virtue of the camera’s power use.

[Stanly]

14 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It is probably pixel binned 4K via HDMI.

@Andrew Reid Sorry for re-posting, but you probably missed it – R5 does record 4K HQ via HDMI for 4 hours, not pixel binned.