Panasonic S5 Entry Level Full Frame seems to be real...

[SteveV4D]

11 hours ago, Kisaha said:

@MicahMahaffeyWhen 

My first ever m43 camera is the P4K, and now that they have solved most of the issues I had with the smaller sensors, I genuinely waiting for the GH6 more than any other full frame camera. I am using the lenses I need for the project.

I am trying to work out if the GH6 is a thing or not.  Owning a vast amount of MFT lenses makes it a better buy than starting from scratch with the S5 or another fullframe.  Though I have enough MFT cameras and welcome at least one fullframe to balance my gear out. 

I wonder what Panasonic would bring to the table with the GH6 to keep it relevant given what we are now seeing in fullframe cameras.  I hope more than just 8K.  Internal ND filters, internal RAW maybe.  

So far Panasonic are putting more effort into their fullframe and I question if the writing is on the wall for their GH line.  Maybe I am wrong.  But with Olympus pulling out, MFT feels like an endangers species relegated to cheaper camera releases.   

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

I am trying to work out if the GH6 is a thing or not.  Owning a vast amount of MFT lenses makes it a better buy than starting from scratch with the S5 or another fullframe.  Though I have enough MFT cameras and welcome at least one fullframe to balance my gear out. 

I wonder what Panasonic would bring to the table with the GH6 to keep it relevant given what we are now seeing in fullframe cameras.  I hope more than just 8K.  Internal ND filters, internal RAW maybe.  

So far Panasonic are putting more effort into their fullframe and I question if the writing is on the wall for their GH line.  Maybe I am wrong.  But with Olympus pulling out, MFT feels like an endangers species relegated to cheaper camera releases.   

How can not GH6 be a thing?

First of all, GH series must be the most successful Lumix cameras around, at least in my country.

Then, GH5 is getting older, they must be working on this for at least a year or so.

There are unlimited m43 lenses and a lot of Olympus users will be reluctant to buy more Olympus bodies, so there is opportunity here for Panasonic (I saw a percentage of sales at 4.7%, same as Fuji, if next year they are at 6%, then that's a thing).

A huge issue I had with m43 were, resolution (my hybrids are 28mgpxls) and of course low light performance in photography and videography. P4K and GH5S sensor solved the second as their native high ISO is all I need, but 20mgpxls at m43 is just not enough for a hybrid camera (for me, and one reason I am very disappointed with R6).

A smaller sensor will always have benefits (much cheaper, easier heat dissipation, ways to improve IBIS, weight/size, e.t.c). There are still a lot smaller sensored cameras used professionally all around the world, a m43 sensor is not that small and I can see uses that can be the optimal solution (360 cameras, security, industrial uses, e.t.c).

There is the appropriate thread for this discussion though.

This S5 sounds amazing so far but we have to see the final release as there are more S cameras to differentiate and everyone releases cameras on an unprecedented level.

We are still waiting the new Canon video cameras, probably a X-H2, the A7sIII release, probably something from Sharp and JVC, and whatever m43 camera will be next.

Then, it's the mount. Do you go full in on a new system with admittedly the worst AF system in industry and super expensive lenses? Or you go to a lesser camera like the Z series, or a more expensive with limitations like the R5 or the lesser R6?

Or a 24-48mgpxls (we have seen everything in rumors!) GH6 that can be a video camera workhorse with the smaller and lighter zooms in the industry?

[SteveV4D]

Just seen this leaked specs and images.

https://www.l-rumors.com/panasonic-s5-full-specs-and-additional-images-leaked/amp/

Initial thoughts, looks like no DCI 4K, why??? What is it with cameras removing this option.  

50p and 60p looks like its fullframe and not a crop, 10 bit 4.2.0  Makes sense it being fullframe given recent developments with the competition.  I do wonder if a new version of the S1H is due next year; an answer to the R5 and A7SIII.  

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Size comparison with the G9 made by Apotelyt:

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

Initial thoughts, looks like no DCI 4K, why??? What is it with cameras removing this option.  

Not a deal-breaker for me though I would have preferred it and it is my default with XT3.

It’s just the AF that might be...

And that remains to be seen...

[SteveV4D]

Just now, MrSMW said:

Not a deal-breaker for me though I would have preferred it and it is my default with XT3.

It’s just the AF that might be...

And that remains to be seen...

Not a total deal breaker for me either.  My GH5 is limited to UHD in 25p.  But my other cameras are on DCI.  I like the extra wide angle they give.  

Its a con and one to bare in mind when comparing this to another camera.   Though its a common miss on the specs list at this price.

[PannySVHS]

Pay 200 EU for a software update if you are a S1 owner but get all that stuff for free plus swivel screen plus 10bit 4K60. Unappealing outlook on this new release. S1 was not a good deal compared to the S5, if specs are true without caveheats. S5 will could be a megaseller like the GH5, the number is right already. S1, i feel a bit cheated by Pana due to the S5 release. @Andrew Reid Andrew, if you find time, what is the benefit of buying a S1 these days in your opinion? Are there any, especially without the 200EU VLOG update? We will see, there arent any. I am not considering the battery and the top display a good trade off for the missing codecs, 10bit and VLOG, nor swivel screeen. S5 really looks super exiting! Darn!

[MrSMW]

No offense, but I never understand these ‘feel a bit cheated’ comments every time a new camera comes out.

New camera should = new & improved spec even with ‘cheaper’ models as tech is both passed down and improved upon.

The S1 has been out over a year I think which though is not that long, you can’t really be peeved at Panasonic for bringing out a new camera for the end of 2020?

[PannySVHS]

I would be upset at Pana for still charging 200 EU for the update. Not upset in a sense that matters in perspective to the great cameras and opportunities for film and digital art. Still the opposite of proactive or intuitively reactive exitement regarding my own purchase and its fiscal consequence in perspective to the S5 launch. Great camera, not so great camera or Lumix S1 mood right now for me. No biggie just a bit complaining on our favorite camera blog. Don´t get pulled into this too much, of course. :) Anyway, cameras are too good these days to be true. Crazy image quality in the Lumix line and BM and Canon and Nikon cams, not even to talk about the C series or EVA, Varicam and likes. GH5 was the biggest launch in my eyes for true low budget cinema. What a camera. S5 will even top that. I might get one, if battery and anything else is as strong as its codecs and video. cheers

[SteveV4D]

What put me off from the S1 was the extra fee for the vlog update.  I use to defend it back when they did it for the GH4 and GH5 as I felt it right to pay for an extra function reserved more for video professionals.  Then they included it for free on one of their lower level cameras and it didn't sit right with me after that. 

In hindsight, I feel that at the time they released the S1 that they should have advised customers of the S1H upcoming release; I know some were caught out by this and invested in the S1 and then learnt a camera more suited for video was due afterwards, even if more costly.

Now a year later, they offer an improved S1 in the S5.  Feels like those early adopters for Panasonic fullframe didn't get the best deal.  

Not a concern to me as I didn't jump in.  But I might feel differently if I had.

[omega1978]

7 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

What put me off from the S1 was the extra fee for the vlog update.  I use to defend it back when they did it for the GH4 and GH5 as I felt it right to pay for an extra function reserved more for video professionals.  Then they included it for free on one of their lower level cameras and it didn't sit right with me after that. 

In hindsight, I feel that at the time they released the S1 that they should have advised customers of the S1H upcoming release; I know some were caught out by this and invested in the S1 and then learnt a camera more suited for video was due afterwards, even if more costly.

Now a year later, they offer an improved S1 in the S5.  Feels like those early adopters for Panasonic fullframe didn't get the best deal.  

Not a concern to me as I didn't jump in.  But I might feel differently if I had.

 

[Amazeballs]

I still think Panasonic needs to price this camera down close to 1500$ and not 2000$

Mainly due to not having a competitive AF. Than comes 4k60 in APC-S only. If the new Sony A7C has FF 4k60 and sells a bit over 2000, than it would be extremely hard for Pana to compete with that.  

Another problem - absence of cheap 1.8 lenses. Sony has the best FF lens lineup currently.

If Canon fixes their overheating scam (or ML does it for them), then R6 is another strong competitor. 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

If Panasonic somehow figured out the AF issues, in my view the S5 could be a hit. For exactly the same reasons that the A7 III was - not the best in any area, but a very good balance for most users with a good price in the segment.

The huge size of the S1 line was a downside for many people (albeit, with good reason, praised by a lot of other people). This was solved. If ony Pansonic could release less HUGE lenses...

[Amazeballs]

Panasonic wont figure AF without PDAF, we all know that. So no chance here. Still in the same boat. 

[PannySVHS]

S5 and S1 with update (not free unfortunately unlike the cheaper S5, no 4k60 10bit whatsoever unlike that upcoming rascal camera S5 😞 ) provide astonishing cinema image quality in a small form factor.

Their image quality is pretty unique at that price point. It rivals, equals a C300ii but with much better low light and without any nasty noise reduction. Couple that with some cheaper vintage glass and you are in cinema heaven on the cheap. I still cannot believe the quality of the S1 even in its puny 75mbit hlg h265 mode.

Still, if Pana wants to show uncomparable grace in their product line up, they give us some tasty free update for the S1. If so, I will call them Panny again. Hope that could be a good reason to give us the quality codecs and VLOG of their lesser S5 camera. Untile then my name shall be PanaSVHS.

Love the size of the S1 though. One point for S1 owners.:) Z6 in the store does not quiete compare for me in that regard.

 

21 minutes ago, Amazeballs said:

I still think Panasonic needs to price this camera down close to 1500$ and not 2000$

Mainly due to not having a competitive AF. Than comes 4k60 in APC-S only. If the new Sony A7C has FF 4k60 and sells a bit over 2000, than it would be extremely hard for Pana to compete with that.  

Another problem - absence of cheap 1.8 lenses. Sony has the best FF lens lineup currently.

If Canon fixes their overheating scam (or ML does it for them), then R6 is another strong competitor. 

 

[Davos]

The leaked press release says improved AF, for head, eye, face, body - make of that what you will, but personally I'm not hopeful because Sony the sensor fab knows this unlocks the market. All the major manufacturers can now pull off continuous record in most modes (if they don't cripple - big if) - but PDAF is the final differentiator.

If Panasonic can deliver decent PDAF AND continuous record times in all modes they have real contender but that is a massive assumption at this point.

I really hope they can though because the recent Canon debarcle has shown more than ever we need more competition.

[MicahMahaffey]

21 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

S5 and S1 with update (not free unfortunately unlike the cheaper S5, no 4k60 10bit whatsoever unlike that upcoming rascal camera S5 😞 ) provide astonishing cinema image quality in a small form factor.

Their image quality is pretty unique at that price point. It rivals, equals a C300ii but with much better low light and without any nasty noise reduction. Couple that with some cheaper vintage glass and you are in cinema heaven on the cheap. I still cannot believe the quality of the S1 even in its puny 75mbit hlg h265 mode.

Still, if Pana wants to show uncomparable grace in their product line up, they give us some tasty free update for the S1. If so, I will call them Panny again. Hope that could be a good reason to give us the quality codecs and VLOG of their lesser S5 camera. Untile then my name shall be PanaSVHS.

Love the size of the S1 though. One point for S1 owners.:) Z6 in the store does not quiete compare for me in that regard.

 

 

I honestly think the s1 is still great. I didnt want a smaller camera. 

If the s5 is $2000 a used s1 with vlog is still cheaper so the value works out if you buy used. 

Assuming the s5 will be $2000. 

I dont personally feel like I'm missing much without 4k 60 10bit or animorphic modes. 

I'm still hopeful Panasonic announces an update to the s1 though that at least gives it the animorphic options. Maybe 4k 60 10bit? But I wont hold my breath on that one. 

 

[SteveV4D]

I don't think Panasonic will do much for the S1.  They will want you to buy the S5. The first year of the GH5 you got some decent upgrades, but its just small stuff since.  I think if you got the S1 and want more, buy the S5 or the S1H.  Back when the S1 was announced, I had plans to buy it, but held back.  I'm glad I did.  The S5 is looking the better option and camera.

[PannySVHS]

49 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

I don't think Panasonic will do much for the S1.  They will want you to buy the S5. The first year of the GH5 you got some decent upgrades, but its just small stuff since.  I think if you got the S1 and want more, buy the S5 or the S1H.  Back when the S1 was announced, I had plans to buy it, but held back.  I'm glad I did.  The S5 is looking the better option and camera.

I think the same. I might sell my S1 and not bother with hybrids anymore. I love the Lumix brand but this product philosophy and conduct kinda makes want to leave my Pannysvhs alias behind and just stay with Svhs or VHS or pencil and paper. Writing might be a beautiful to do. Becoming better in concepting. Spent so much money on cameras. S1 will have to go I feel. MFT and FS700 and F3 will stay.

[PannySVHS]

2 hours ago, MicahMahaffey said:

I honestly think the s1 is still great. I didnt want a smaller camera. 

If the s5 is $2000 a used s1 with vlog is still cheaper so the value works out if you buy used. 

Assuming the s5 will be $2000. 

I dont personally feel like I'm missing much without 4k 60 10bit or animorphic modes. 

I'm still hopeful Panasonic announces an update to the s1 though that at least gives it the animorphic options. Maybe 4k 60 10bit? But I wont hold my breath on that one. 

 

Haven´t you posted these exact words before? You really mean it and you love your S1. Want to get a second body? I might sell mine. cheers 🙂