Panasonic S5 Entry Level Full Frame seems to be real...

[Kisaha]

26 minutes ago, Trankilstef said:

I think i'll pass on the 20-60 wich seems great for a kit lens but I'll end up buying it with the cashback offer on lenses. 
I think buying it with the 16-35 f4 wich gives you a 600 euros cashback and still having the 45mm from Sigma for free, it's quite a good deal. If I need more range I still have my Panasonic 24-70 f2.8. 
The 16-35 f4 is not large by any means so it pairs well with the S5 in my opinion. My personal kit would be the S5 and those two lenses I think : 

How much in total money?

The 2080quids offer is amazing, adding an EF adapter would be just enough for me, but I would rather have this 16-35.

If I see such bundles around me (from an E.U country) I would be really tempted, for 2300euros (if that will be valid, I really doubt it will be so cheap in euro-land) you have an excellent starting pack, and I am not so crazy with the variable apperture of 20-60, as 5.6f-8f, is what I most use in full frame. Constant 4 would be amazing of course.

The crop is a bummer though, not punching in just stupid (I use the Focus anyway), and we have to see the overheating.

[sanveer]

8 minutes ago, deezid said:

Just some slight spatial filtering on the S1H (NR-1), S1 and S5. Nothing which creates visible artifacts. 🙂

Ok. Fair enough. 😊👍🏼

[jack jin]

15 minutes ago, deezid said:

Just some slight spatial filtering on the S1H (NR-1), S1 and S5. Nothing which creates visible artifacts. 🙂

Is that the reason why the s1's video is so soft when compared to the a73 and z6? Does the spatial filtering filters out high frequency details as well?

[deezid]

1 minute ago, jack jin said:

Is that the reason why the s1's video is so soft when compared to the a73 and z6? Does the spatial filtering filters out high frequency details as well?

Not the reason at all.
Both Nikon and Sony do heavy processing on their footage. Strong NR creating all kinds of artifacts and strong sharpening with halos around corners. 

If you want a proper Sony camera which doesn't look like video, the FX9 and above are your only choices. While Panasonic starting with the S5/S1 and above looks really organic.

[jack jin]

3 minutes ago, deezid said:

Not the reason at all.
Both Nikon and Sony do heavy processing on their footage. Strong NR creating all kinds of artifacts and strong sharpening with halos around corners. 

If you want a proper Sony camera which doesn't look like video, the FX9 and above are your only choices. While Panasonic starting with the S5/S1 and above looks really organic.

Interesting... Because from what I see in the dpreview comparisons: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=panasonic_dcs1&attr29_1=nikon_z6&attr72_0=4k&attr72_1=4k&normalization=full&widget=200&x=-0.1766201071300748&y=-0.717123739236587

It seems like the s1 and the s1h is about as sharp as the panasonic gh4 which does a 1:1 pixel readout, even though lots of people claim that the 4k output out of those camera are downsampled from 5.9k. Where as the a73 and z6 looks quite a bit more detailed. And with the apsc xt3 blowing all of those cameras out of the water. But the image out of the s1 is indeed quite organic. The 10bit output does look great.

[hyalinejim]

Look at the resolution target in the center and you'll see the aliasing and moire on the Z6

[Trankilstef]

35 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

I would sell the 45mm and get an EF adapter. 
But what EF adapter works the best:
- Viltrox
-  Metabones doesnt seem to have yet?
-  Sigma
- novoflex

I have the Sigma with my S1H and it works really great. I think it's the best option right now.

[Trankilstef]

27 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

How much in total money?

The 2080quids offer is amazing, adding an EF adapter would be just enough for me, but I would rather have this 16-35.

If I see such bundles around me (from an E.U country) I would be really tempted, for 2300euros (if that will be valid, I really doubt it will be so cheap in euro-land) you have an excellent starting pack, and I am not so crazy with the variable apperture of 20-60, as 5.6f-8f, is what I most use in full frame. Constant 4 would be amazing of course.

The crop is a bummer though, not punching in just stupid (I use the Focus anyway), and we have to see the overheating.

Ok so the price for the S5 is 2000 euros , then 1500 -600 euros for the Panasonic 16-35 = 2900 euros for the Panasonic S5 + Panasonic 16-35 f4 + Sigma 45mm f2.8 (FREE) !
I think it's worth it ! 

In europe the prices are 2300 euros for Panasonic + 20-60, check for yourself here : https://www.digit-photo.com/PANASONIC-Lumix-S5-20-60mm-f-3-5-5-6-rPANASONICDCS5KEK.html

[deezid]

16 minutes ago, jack jin said:

Interesting... Because from what I see in the dpreview comparisons: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=panasonic_dcs1&attr29_1=nikon_z6&attr72_0=4k&attr72_1=4k&normalization=full&widget=200&x=-0.1766201071300748&y=-0.717123739236587

It seems like the s1 and the s1h is about as sharp as the panasonic gh4 which does a 1:1 pixel readout, even though lots of people claim that the 4k output out of those camera are downsampled from 5.9k. Where as the a73 and z6 looks quite a bit more detailed. And with the apsc xt3 blowing all of those cameras out of the water. But the image out of the s1 is indeed quite organic. The 10bit output does look great.

Don't confuse sharpening with actual detail.
When it comes to low contrast texture, the S5/S1/S1H easily outperform others while having the same amount of high contrast detail but basically no sharpening.

[deezid]

Here's a comparison (open in full screen) between the A7sIII and S1H. Notice how the Sony shows lots of sharpening halos and aliasing while the S1H doesn't? 
This is quite typical for manufacturers like Sony, Fuji, BMD, Z-Cam, Nikon etc. while Panasonic (since S1), ARRI, Canon (since 5DMKIV), RED etc. don't suffer from these over-processing issues.

[hyalinejim]

Lots of good deals on the S1 on eBay right now 🤣

[zerocool22]

40 minutes ago, Trankilstef said:

Ok so the price for the S5 is 2000 euros , then 1500 -600 euros for the Panasonic 16-35 = 2900 euros for the Panasonic S5 + Panasonic 16-35 f4 + Sigma 45mm f2.8 (FREE) !
I think it's worth it ! 

In europe the prices are 2300 euros for Panasonic + 20-60, check for yourself here : https://www.digit-photo.com/PANASONIC-Lumix-S5-20-60mm-f-3-5-5-6-rPANASONICDCS5KEK.html

The 20-60 does not look appealing to me. Variable aputure from +3.5 and the same for the Panasonic 16-35 F4. I get you can pump up your iso a bit on these camera's, but even just DOF wise. 

[hyalinejim]

You could get €500 off the 24-105 or 24-70 instead

[Trankilstef]

18 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

The 20-60 does not look appealing to me. Variable aputure from +3.5 and the same for the Panasonic 16-35 F4. I get you can pump up your iso a bit on these camera's, but even just DOF wise. 

I already have the 24-70 f2.8 and waiting for the primes that will be released by november. And I also have a 5 lenses kit of Samyang cinema lenses that I use on paid projects on my S1H.

But what interest me in the 16-35 f4 is that its aperture is constant and it's kind of small, matching the small size of the S5. Also for me, f4 (and sometimes f5.6) is the sweet spot for shooting video in Full Frame in manual focus, it has that FF look with a little bit of blur in the background without being too hard to pull focus.
So perfectly fine for me. i'd rather compromise a bit on the size than on the constant aperture compared to the 20-60.

[zerocool22]

16 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

You could get €500 off the 24-105 or 24-70 instead

Yeah its 2500€, thats a bit much for me. 

[hyalinejim]

I agree about the financial pain of moving to L mount. If I were to do it I think I'd stick to my EF lenses and just manual focus them like I've always been doing. The image is nicer than the GH5. But would any of my clients notice? Probably not!

[nashi]

1 hour ago, Trankilstef said:

Ok so the price for the S5 is 2000 euros , then 1500 -600 euros for the Panasonic 16-35 = 2900 euros for the Panasonic S5 + Panasonic 16-35 f4 + Sigma 45mm f2.8 (FREE) !
I think it's worth it ! 

In europe the prices are 2300 euros for Panasonic + 20-60, check for yourself here : https://www.digit-photo.com/PANASONIC-Lumix-S5-20-60mm-f-3-5-5-6-rPANASONICDCS5KEK.html

Is this money offer lenses offer only available in mainland Europe? Can’t see it in the UK.

[Trankilstef]

35 minutes ago, nashi said:

Is this money offer lenses offer only available in mainland Europe? Can’t see it in the UK.

Maybe not in the UK as all I see on the CVP website is the free Sigma 45mm or free XLR1 MICROPHONE ADAPTER offer. So yeah maybe not outside EU.

[hyalinejim]

9 minutes ago, Trankilstef said:

Maybe not in the UK as all I see on the CVP website is the free Sigma 45mm or free XLR1 MICROPHONE ADAPTER offer. So yeah maybe not outside EU.

Neither does it seem to be available in Ireland (who are thankfully still in the EU 🤣), so it must be a continental Europe thing. But I guess you could try ordering from a continental seller if you're in Ireland or UK?

[Video Hummus]

@Andrew Reid went very easy on the S5.

They made lots of annoying handicaps and compromises.

• 30 min record limit in certain modes are a bummer.
• The micro HDMI is unacceptable (why is this a thing in 2020; Japanese camera cabal cripple?)
• Their DfD AF is still quite shit, especially compared to latest offerings from Sony and Canon (but somewhat useable in S35 4K60; see down below*)
• No FF 4K60 in 10-bit
• No All-I
• Second card slot is UHS-I (which makes it impossible to do dual recording in ALL-I; if they add that feature in the future)

I agree with Gerald Undone on this one. This is a strange camera. If I was an S1 owner I would be perplexed. They better have a compelling firmware update for the S1 and S1H.

* Since the AF performance is much improved in higher frame rates. Why the hell doesn’t Panasonic give us a NTSC 48fps FF mode? You could shoot in this mode with a 360 degree shutter. In post every other frame will be dropped cleanly (no 2.5 frames drops as in 60p -> 24).

Might be worth it for NTSC shooters to shoot in PAL with the clean 25p and 50p and then use synchro-scan (does it the S5 have it) to eliminated any flickering to get that clean 50p -> 25p conversion with decent AF performance.