Panasonic S5 Entry Level Full Frame seems to be real...

[Video Hummus]

The single biggest reason LUMIX cameras fail in the market is because of their AF.

You would think they would do everything in their power, including weird shit like ToF (which really is just a work around), to improve it.

When the Sony A7IV comes out its going to eat every bodies lunch it seems on the low end. Maybe Nikon will finally get their shit together.

But Sony can do this because Panasonic has no choice but to get what Sony is willing to sell them on the sensor side of things. I think the whole debate about why Panasonic just doesn’t use PDAF is settled. They are clearly being blocked in some shape or form. All the other major manufactures have a form of it but them...oh well. The Japanese camera cabal is real.

[deezid]

14 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

When the Sony A7IV comes out its going to eat every bodies lunch it seems on the low end. 

I agree, probably since no one really cares about heavy videoish processing anyway but AF on the other hand...

[hyalinejim]

5 minutes ago, deezid said:

I agree, probably since no one really cares about heavy videoish processing anyway but AF on the other hand...

I care! You made a brilliant point about the smoothness of the Panasonic S series V-Log compared to what other manufacturers are doing with their profiles at the same price point. That's worth more to me than AF.

[tomsemiterrific]

7 hours ago, ntblowz said:

You see those 4 pin on top? That what connect to S5, while older cam connect to other other 4 pin on the opposite side.

Yes, I know what those connectors do. I've owned an S1 and presently own an S1H---unfortunately I don't own and can't afford the purchased of a fork lift, so I don't take it out all that often or for all that long.

I was just hoping the S5 would run off both sets of connectors so the batteries would be interchangeable.

alas, you can't have every thing---not sure why, but that's what they say. Thanks for the response.

[deezid]

2 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

I care! You made a brilliant point about the smoothness of the Panasonic S series V-Log compared to what other manufacturers are doing with their profiles at the same price point. That's worth more to me than AF.

Well, let's most don't 😄
AF is a big problem on their cameras, the image on the other hand in full V-Log is just wonderful, especially in the 6K modes.

[MrSMW]

53 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

When the Sony A7IV comes out its going to eat every bodies lunch it seems on the low end. Maybe Nikon will finally get their shit together.

This is what I suspect will happen...

I think Nikon will produce the Z6 they perhaps should have done at it’s birth and it won’t be so much late to the party and will in fact be very good...but the Sony A74 I’m fairly confident just have that edge most places that count over the comp.

The only real weaknesses of the A73 are the EVF, the IBIS and maybe the colour and for most they are more niggles with workarounds than major flaws.

Some of the firmware upgrades for the S5 and older S1 and S1H do have some potential and actually the S1H is back in my radar in that regard.

I’m just hoping Fuji spoil the party and think they might just other than not having the FF sensor some crave...

As with all these things, time will tell!

[Trankilstef]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

Neither does it seem to be available in Ireland (who are thankfully still in the EU 🤣), so it must be a continental Europe thing. But I guess you could try ordering from a continental seller if you're in Ireland or UK?

Not sure it will work as you need to then send them the invoice with the picture of the barcode and only after them checking everything they will send you the money back.

[agoldstraw]

With the Sony A6600 already nudging two grand, and this weird A7c reportedly on the horizon to fit in between them, there's no way that the A7iv won't be priced at anything than around the R6 mark, leaving the S5 500 or so quid cheaper. 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

6 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Lots of good deals on the S1 on eBay right now 🤣

I've found a S5 for around the same price.

 

[hyalinejim]

Well that doesn't really look any smaller at all 😂

[Beritar]

10 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

I'd hold off on buying a used S1 now.  Something tells me there will be a few more on the market soon and this will drive the price down further.

S5 has the same dust and water proof resistance as the S1, its just not as capable in freezing cold conditions according to reviews.  

Whilst improved AF is coming to the S1, I doubt it will be to the standards of the S5, as the camera hardware was designed for this improved AF, whereas the AF is just getting some software improvements.

Is the IBIS better on the S1.  I've seen different and conflicting reports on that, some say the same, others say not as good.

S5 will by the end of the year output 5.9k, albeit via a crap HDMI port.

If I bought either the S1 or S5, neither would be A cameras.  More B or C depending on needs.  So the limitations aren't a big deal.  I would need to see how the overheating performs in real world cases before deciding.  If it does manage 30 mins and can quickly record afterwards, then its not a deal breaker for me.

Yes I would like to see a comparison between the S5 and the GH5 IBIS. 

[Aaron Smith]

Hey there guys.  I'm gonna be in the market for a camera since I'm getting some inheritance (RIP Dad) and money is no object but I'm wondering how much better would this sort of thing be than a GH5s? Sure, the much larger sensor is an obvious win for a lot of things but I'm wondering how they'd compare for run-and-gun.  I'd be doing pretty basic stuff: dumb comedy sketches, shooting live music (when live music in the US happens again) and some guitar/bass/whatever playthroughs at home. I don't do photos.  I'm not sure I care about size because I have huge hands.

My other cameras are a Gx85 and a G85 if that makes any difference.  I'm quite invested in M43 at this point but not married to it.  I aim to have something that's gonna be easy to use by myself, without a crew or anything.  The limitations on recording for the S5 are disappointing but maybe that won't matter for my uses? Maybe I should be looking at the S1 or S1H instead? A

I dunno. Is there anything at all that a GH5s would do better than this thing?

Thanks.

[ntblowz]

Oz can choose between the Sigma lens or XLR adapter

[Video Hummus]

1 hour ago, Aaron Smith said:

Hey there guys.  I'm gonna be in the market for a camera since I'm getting some inheritance (RIP Dad) and money is no object but I'm wondering how much better would this sort of thing be than a GH5s? Sure, the much larger sensor is an obvious win for a lot of things but I'm wondering how they'd compare for run-and-gun.  I'd be doing pretty basic stuff: dumb comedy sketches, shooting live music (when live music in the US happens again) and some guitar/bass/whatever playthroughs at home. I don't do photos.  I'm not sure I care about size because I have huge hands.

My other cameras are a Gx85 and a G85 if that makes any difference.  I'm quite invested in M43 at this point but not married to it.  I aim to have something that's gonna be easy to use by myself, without a crew or anything.  The limitations on recording for the S5 are disappointing but maybe that won't matter for my uses? Maybe I should be looking at the S1 or S1H instead? A

I dunno. Is there anything at all that a GH5s would do better than this thing?

Thanks.

I would wait A bit longer for news about GH6 if your invested in M43.

You could always pick up a G9 if you want something now and don’t miss some the the features it’s lacking compared to GH5. I’m pretty sure a G9 with latest firmware would be a upgrade  from a G85. They are $1000 new and probably $800 lightly used.

If you are completely solo and don’t take pictures the A7SIII would make the most sense.

I wouldn’t touch R5/R6 at the moment.

Then there is always Fuji XT-4.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, Aaron Smith said:

Hey there guys.  I'm gonna be in the market for a camera since I'm getting some inheritance (RIP Dad) and money is no object but I'm wondering how much better would this sort of thing be than a GH5s? Sure, the much larger sensor is an obvious win for a lot of things but I'm wondering how they'd compare for run-and-gun.  I'd be doing pretty basic stuff: dumb comedy sketches, shooting live music (when live music in the US happens again) and some guitar/bass/whatever playthroughs at home. I don't do photos.  I'm not sure I care about size because I have huge hands.

My other cameras are a Gx85 and a G85 if that makes any difference.  I'm quite invested in M43 at this point but not married to it.  I aim to have something that's gonna be easy to use by myself, without a crew or anything.  The limitations on recording for the S5 are disappointing but maybe that won't matter for my uses? Maybe I should be looking at the S1 or S1H instead? A

I dunno. Is there anything at all that a GH5s would do better than this thing?

Thanks.

Ask yourself, except IBIS, what the S5 can do better than the GH5S?

Save some of your money for whatever reason, you are still very young and you may have other needs later on.

I am waiting to see the GH6, to have the whole picture in front of me, it is time for an upgrade, and Panasonic just finished with the S cameras I believe (for now), it is time to concentrate on the GH6. 

Early next year, we probably have news, or even the release it self.

You do not care much about photography, so any will do fine, the A7sIII seems like the most serious video hybrid under 3.500$, but then you have to invest to lenses and the such. Lenses is the biggest part of a photo/video system, and can eat inheritances up quite easily! If you go with the holy trinity on Sony and the A7sIII, you are looking for a high 5 figure price already.

If you have the GH5S, you still have a great video tool, I wouldn't worry that much. Anyway, around Xmas we will see a lot of offers from camera makers, and probably have the first GH6 rumors, so come back then, it is my advice!

[Resonance]

1 hour ago, Aaron Smith said:

Hey there guys.  I'm gonna be in the market for a camera since I'm getting some inheritance (RIP Dad)

Welcome, Aaron, we need playful and intelligent people like you. Your Dad would be proud of you.

Quote

I'm wondering how much better would this sort of thing be than a GH5s?

The GH5s has no IBIS.

Quote

My other cameras are a Gx85 and a G85 if that makes any difference.  I'm quite invested in M43 at this point but not married to it.  I aim to have something that's gonna be easy to use by myself, without a crew or anything.  The limitations on recording for the S5 are disappointing but maybe that won't matter for my uses?

A camera with good autofocus, good colours, IBIS, 4k60, and good dynamic range is currently missing. They will likely come in 2021. You will make the best choice by watching sample videos out of camera or renting first. Until then, you could replace your G85 with a G9 with 10-25mm lens. This combination has bad AF and weak DR, but produces good footage and will sell well when you are ready to replace it.

[TheBoogieKnight]

8 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

@Andrew Reid went very easy on the S5.

They made lots of annoying handicaps and compromises.

• 30 min record limit in certain modes are a bummer.
• The micro HDMI is unacceptable (why is this a thing in 2020; Japanese camera cabal cripple?)
• Their DfD AF is still quite shit, especially compared to latest offerings from Sony and Canon (but somewhat useable in S35 4K60; see down below*)
• No FF 4K60 in 10-bit
• No All-I
• Second card slot is UHS-I (which makes it impossible to do dual recording in ALL-I; if they add that feature in the future)

I agree with Gerald Undone on this one. This is a strange camera. If I was an S1 owner I would be perplexed. They better have a compelling firmware update for the S1 and S1H.

* Since the AF performance is much improved in higher frame rates. Why the hell doesn’t Panasonic give us a NTSC 48fps FF mode? You could shoot in this mode with a 360 degree shutter. In post every other frame will be dropped cleanly (no 2.5 frames drops as in 60p -> 24).

Might be worth it for NTSC shooters to shoot in PAL with the clean 25p and 50p and then use synchro-scan (does it the S5 have it) to eliminated any flickering to get that clean 50p -> 25p conversion with decent AF performance.

Agreed, the 30 minutes limits and micro HDMI are pretty bad cripples. There's also the weaker EVF and LCD screen and poorer IBIS to add into the equation (I've watched a few videos now and it definitely looks worse). It's definitely crippled quite a lot compared to the S1 although it adds loads of stuff too. I'm still impressed by the size of it and the price is more than reasonable (basically the same as I paid for my S1s).

[HockeyFan12]

Any chance of 5.9k raw out on the S1 or is a hardware limitation?

That's a killer feature. 

[Trek of Joy]

7 hours ago, agoldstraw said:

With the Sony A6600 already nudging two grand, and this weird A7c reportedly on the horizon to fit in between them, there's no way that the A7iv won't be priced at anything than around the R6 mark, leaving the S5 500 or so quid cheaper. 

The a6600 is $1198. That’s a far cry from $2000. The a7IV isn’t going to get a $500 price hike as it’s a parts bin camera, it’s just cobbled together with tech developed from other cameras In a down spec body.

The S5 is DOA for anyone that’s not a Panny die hard mostly because of its trash AF compared to the competition and other hits from the cripple hammer. The R6 and the now ancient a7III will easily crush it. And the a7IV is going to mop the floor with all of these, unless the a7c turns out to be something special instead of just a small FF body. 

I’m glad Panasonic keeps trying, it pushes Sony and others on the video spec sheet. But this camera with its crippled spec, chintzy EVF and lack of PDAF should be $1200, not $2000. Panasonic’s only way to make inroads is to beat everyone on price in the segment, not to be more expensive than the competition.

If they can’t get class leading AF, this line won’t last past the second generation.

Chris

[dgvro]

18 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

But which lens did you have with the S1? If you didn't have the 24-105 or the 70-200, then you didn't get to enjoy the benefits of Dual-I.S. 2. For whatever reason, the 24-70 f/2.8 did not include optical stabilization like the 12-35 f/2.8 on the GH5. The Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 includes optical stabilization, but it doesn't work with the Panasonic Dual I.S. 2 system.

 

Sorry, I forgot to explicitly say I don't mean anything to do with lens OIS whatsoever. Just IBIS - just in-body.

And I don't buy into the rated X.X Stops specs stuff since that just doesn't tell much of a tale at all for video, as I discovered with my XT4, it certainly has a bunch of "Stops of stabilisation", but their quantised and robotic way of moving the sensor ruins many of my video shots.

So I'm still sort of wondering - is the S5 better than the S1/H in this regard and were those any better than the GH5?