Panasonic S5 Entry Level Full Frame seems to be real...

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Slightly out of thread, but since I'm looking at Fuji: how this works - or not - with the XT-3? How many steps are needed to switch "functions"?

Feel free to PM me or start a topic and happy to answer any questions so as not to pollute this thread any further!

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

Then there is the wildcard, Fuji. If they release a X-H2 or any other video focused mirrorless hybrid they shoot to #2 spot instantly. I just don’t think their lens lineup is all that interesting...

And that has been my perpetual problem for many years causing me to adapt!

Great lenses for photography, but less so for video with only a couple of choices and if you shoot a lot of low light AND want any real shallow DOF and retain AF, then...

Plus for my personal needs, I don't think I'd have one in my hands before the end of March 2021 and I want to start my next season fully up to speed with all my gear. OK for me, a switch from XTanything to XH2 would not be too difficult but I don't like change full stop so avoid it if I can.

The future of Panasonic or even the full RebeL Alliance is a slight concern, but I think they will be fine and I'm looking at S5 bodies as a min 3 year deal anyway so will have had my money's worth even if the whole pack of cards comes crashing down. I suspect it won't and the trio all bring something to the party.

[ntblowz]

The Fotodiox ND Throttle Fusion adapter, looks pretty good

 

 

[Trankilstef]

17 hours ago, icarrere said:

Hi,

Where did you buy the Fotodiox EF-L VND, in Europe where?

Color cast is OK?

your opinions are apreciatted here, many dubts at the beggininig

 

I bought it straight from the Fotodiox website, it was the last item in stock at the time I bought it. I did'nt see any color cast but I didn't go to the max maybe I will need to make other tests. But I don't think there will be as much color cast as with some circular NDs i have. In my very quick test I didn't see any.
I will put it mor to the test in the few weeks coming. For now I'm really happy as it will come really handy and will speed up my shooting time when outside on a low profile.

[MrSMW]

Well I have done an about turn which went from initially being interested in the S5 to less interested to moving to it as my primary stills and filming workhorse.

In 20 years, I have only made one brand switch and that was 9 years ago from Nikon to Fuji.

Now it's Fuji to Panasonic (S5) + Sigma (FP) and all being well, a pair of S5's.

There's enough there to convince me it will suit my specific needs and do 'more' than my current Fuji system can do.

Pre-ordered the S5 (just one to start with to make sure with my own tests it suits my needs) with the 20-60mm 'kit' lens for initial testing before relegating that lens to wide angle duties, plus the bonus of a free Sigma 45mm f2.8 which will be going on a used FP when I have the funds in a month or so to buy one.

'Holy Grail' camera? Nah... Canon R5 without heating issues and maybe even R6 are 'better' as is the Sony A7S3 and undoubtedly the A74 whenever that pops up. And maybe even the Nikon Z6S, but all things considered (and there are many things unique to each of us), I think both this camera and the entire 'L' system are going to suit my needs very well for the next few years.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Trankilstef said:

Fotodiox

The only issue I have with this built in ND filter is outdoors, great, but in low light...

Well it would require a second adaptor with no ND for indoor/low light.

But otherwise, a very interesting option and I'm at least considering it...

[Trankilstef]

3 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Well I have done an about turn which went from initially being interested in the S5 to less interested to moving to it as my primary stills and filming workhorse.

In 20 years, I have only made one brand switch and that was 9 years ago from Nikon to Fuji.

Now it's Fuji to Panasonic (S5) + Sigma (FP) and all being well, a pair of S5's.

There's enough there to convince me it will suit my specific needs and do 'more' than my current Fuji system can do.

Pre-ordered the S5 (just one to start with to make sure with my own tests it suits my needs) with the 20-60mm 'kit' lens for initial testing before relegating that lens to wide angle duties, plus the bonus of a free Sigma 45mm f2.8 which will be going on a used FP when I have the funds in a month or so to buy one.

'Holy Grail' camera? Nah... Canon R5 without heating issues and maybe even R6 are 'better' as is the Sony A7S3 and undoubtedly the A74 whenever that pops up. And maybe even the Nikon Z6S, but all things considered (and there are many things unique to each of us), I think both this camera and the entire 'L' system are going to suit my needs very well for the next few years.

I think you'll be served very well with the L mount system. Bodies are really good, there are lenses coming, photo and especially video features are excellent, no compromises here except for continuous AF on video but the S5 seems to have improved this area a lot, and in a few firmwares this shoyld be really reliable. I think you made a really good choice.

[Trankilstef]

3 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The only issue I have with this built in ND filter is outdoors, great, but in low light...

Well it would require a second adaptor with no ND for indoor/low light.

But otherwise, a very interesting option and I'm at least considering it...

That's my workflow. i'm using the Sigma adapter for low light interiors if needed. And even with the fotodiox, no problem when cranking up the iso to 4000 (the second native ISO of the S1H and S5) if I am in the rush.

[hyalinejim]

22 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

it would require a second adaptor with no ND for indoor/low light

I read somewhere that the Fotodiox actually loses a bit more than one stop of light at the minimum setting even though it's rated at one as the minimum. So in extreme low light where you need that extra plus one stop then it would be better (and more of a nuisance!) to have another adapter with no ND.

How is infinity focus with wide angle lenses on the Fotodiox?

[ntblowz]

Yeah Fotodiox is actually 2-8 not 1-8.

On Canon I have the normal adapter for night and the VND adapter for day time, that is bloody useful and less reflection/loss of contrast issue vs front filter on backlight situation.

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

I read somewhere that the Fotodiox actually loses a bit more than one stop of light at the minimum setting even though it's rated at one as the minimum. So in extreme low light where you need that extra plus one stop then it would be better (and more of a nuisance!) to have another adapter with no ND.

How is infinity focus with wide angle lenses on the Fotodiox?

 

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, Trankilstef said:

I think you'll be served very well with the L mount system. Bodies are really good, there are lenses coming, photo and especially video features are excellent, no compromises here except for continuous AF on video but the S5 seems to have improved this area a lot, and in a few firmwares this shoyld be really reliable. I think you made a really good choice.

Yes, I'm interested in a 35mm f1.8 and 85mm f1.8 and then will do some testing and see whether I am happy switching to an APSC crop with the 85 or whether I just get something longer and retain the full frame. We shall see and in no rush as I will have the 20-60mm kit lens and Sigma 45mm to keep me entertained over the Winter.

I've also seen quite a few tests now where shooting 4k 50p improved AF accuracy (good, because this is my default) and shooting fast shutter speeds improves it even further (which is also good because I do that also!) and as you say, there will probably be firmware tweaks that may just make it better anyway.

For a few years I worked with Fuji and contrast detect AF (before PDAF arrived with the XT1 I think?) and have had a couple of other CAF cameras so aware of how they work and I don't shoot anything much above a moderate walking pace so never had any real issues. Except with the original X Pro1 on original firmware which couldn't capture a speeding snail.

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

I read somewhere that the Fotodiox actually loses a bit more than one stop of light at the minimum setting even though it's rated at one as the minimum. So in extreme low light where you need that extra plus one stop then it would be better (and more of a nuisance!) to have another adapter with no ND.

How is infinity focus with wide angle lenses on the Fotodiox?

Yes. Some have reported it as ND 1-8 but it's ND 2-8.

For my requirements, I'd need 2x ND versions and 2x non-ND, so 4 adaptors and that kind of rules it out for me.

 

[ntblowz]

On 9/3/2020 at 10:42 PM, deezid said:

Not the reason at all.
Both Nikon and Sony do heavy processing on their footage. Strong NR creating all kinds of artifacts and strong sharpening with halos around corners. 

If you want a proper Sony camera which doesn't look like video, the FX9 and above are your only choices. While Panasonic starting with the S5/S1 and above looks really organic.

Is that the reason why Sony FX9 only got 11.5 DR (just got tested and comment filled with angry fanboy) while S1/S1H/S5 got 12.3 DR on cined test?  The heavy handed NR ?

[sanveer]

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

Is that the reason why Sony FX9 only got 11.5 DR (just got tested and comment filled with angry fanboy) while S1/S1H/S5 got 12.3 DR on cined test?  The heavy handed NR ?

Hahaha. Their tests always have people reaching for their swords.

I liked this comment in particular, from their comments section. 

"Lars Gafpa Gear

@gunther we executed internally the same ima test and it looks similar. Basically a 12 adc sensor can never deliver more than around 11.5 in s/n 2. Unless they use heavy nr. These are the facts. These are all imx 12 bit video mode adc sensors. Dome may look better due to heavy nr. Only varicam etc have 14 bit adc or alrxa which crossconverts two pixels simultaneously. Therefor i doubt ima test says a lot. I mean one can het a bit higher rating towards the maximum patch range by doing nr. But its ugly bit right now no mirror less cameras have 14 bit adc. Same goes for komodo. Maximum 11 stops. Still fun for a global shutter camera and ofc uses backed in highkight retention to get dr higher etc and some other tricks. I love the ima test of cined they demystify a bit all the lies. It shows that over the last 10 years no big inventions were made on a sensor level. Onoy invention is fake news."

 

Incidentally, tests such as these, and all tests in general, also highlight how fallable dynamic range tests and company numbers really are, and that experts are grossly overrated and over paid idiots, with years of senseless experience. Also, most importantly, that the more famous an expert is, the bigger a jackass he is likely to be, and the more likely he tries to fool everyone, and is as consumed by his own BS, as the ones he attempts to fool. Somewhere the whole line of distinction is blurred. 

[ntblowz]

19 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Hahaha. Their tests always have people reaching for their swords.

Lol yeah, try to make themselves the authoritative on this matter, unfortunately there is no other outlet testing camera DR except them so they are the only one we got, still shocked that FX9 scored lower DR than FS7 though

[sanveer]

6 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Lol yeah, try to make themselves the authoritative on this matter, unfortunately there is no other outlet testing camera DR except them so they are the only one we got, still shocked that FX9 scored lower DR than FS7 though

Yes. And of so many models. Also, if the FX9 truly had lesser dynamic range than the FS7, nobody will say ut oublicly. 

I realized that nobody really tested the dynamic range for many cameras including the Varicam(s). Sometimes having finding in start contract to public sentiment can appear to be pretty damning. 

[deezid]

8 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Is that the reason why Sony FX9 only got 11.5 DR (just got tested and comment filled with angry fanboy) while S1/S1H/S5 got 12.3 DR on cined test?  The heavy handed NR ?

Imatest doesn't care about artifacts, which is a huge issue.
The available latitude on the FX9 is still better than on the A7sIII where anything below middle gray starts smearing or even shows ghosting.

I'd rather have no NR or non-destructive NR on the S1/S1H/S5 (12.3 stops, 12 bit ADC video mode) vs destructive NR on the A7sIII (13 stops, 12 bit ADC video mode) or even worse A73 (10.7 stops, 10 bit ADC video mode).

I'm sure the FX9 would receive better results with NR on, but their noise reduction algorithms aren't as sophisticated as the Panasonic S-series's has become, so you would run into similar issues shown on the A7sIII.

And honestly, the grain on the FX9 cleans up super nicely if necessary. 🙂

[deezid]

7 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Lol yeah, try to make themselves the authoritative on this matter, unfortunately there is no other outlet testing camera DR except them so they are the only one we got, still shocked that FX9 scored lower DR than FS7 though

Nothing to be shocked about. The FS7 image looks like hot garbage with its bad tonality and horrible processing, while the FX9 looks fantastic.

[Geoff CB]

2 hours ago, deezid said:

Imatest doesn't care about artifacts, which is a huge issue.
The available latitude on the FX9 is still better than on the A7sIII where anything below middle gray starts smearing or even shows ghosting.

I'd rather have no NR or non-destructive NR on the S1/S1H/S5 (12.3 stops, 12 bit ADC video mode) vs destructive NR on the A7sIII (13 stops, 12 bit ADC video mode) or even worse A73 (10.7 stops, 10 bit ADC video mode).

I'm sure the FX9 would receive better results with NR on, but their noise reduction algorithms aren't as sophisticated as the Panasonic S-series's has become, so you would run into similar issues shown on the A7sIII.

And honestly, the grain on the FX9 cleans up super nicely if necessary. 🙂

yeah DR is important but I've seen so many cameras with great DR that fall apart and the shadows or the highlights in terms of image quality. Like my A7rII that turned green in the highlights right before clipping (thank God they fixed this on later models).

[Kisaha]

haha not even the snail was in focus at f4!! oh my...