Panasonic S5 Entry Level Full Frame seems to be real...

[MrSMW]

The more I see, the more I like.

Only 2 questions really remain for me and those are; what is the AF going to be like and also I assume it’s a true hybrid and it is easy to flip between (and remember) different stills & video settings.

All will be revealed next week I guess...

[IronFilm]

22 hours ago, MicahMahaffey said:

You're not wrong, you can slap a wide angle lens on a m/43 sensor. 

I've shot with plenty of m/43 cameras and we were always able to make it work. 

But.. for narrative work I dont want to just "make it work".. I want an optimal image without spending a long time trying to frame while maintaining some kind of dof. 

What "make it work" is there? 
Just have the lenses that work, and they work. 

 

22 hours ago, MicahMahaffey said:

Cant tell you how many times we've filmed in small 3 foot spaces and were forced to smash our m/43s camera up against the wall with a 10mm lens to get the shot. But even then the shot we wanted is so distorted from that 10mm that the emotional response we wanted from that scene is completely off. 

And you wouldn't have distorted it just the same way with a 20mm lens on a FF35 camera?? (remember, that's 13mm S35!! I'll almost never see that used on a set. It is a bad day for me when it is! ha)
 

22 hours ago, MicahMahaffey said:

Its passable and obviously usable. But with a full frame camera it just opens up more flexibility in lens choice and framing option on set, which does make a huge difference, even more so than resolution and codecs. 

No it does not "open up more flexibility in lens choice and framing options on set".

In fact this is a common complaint from professional cinematographers, the limited number of cine FF35 lens sets there are. 

 

20 hours ago, herein2020 said:

 

I always find it interesting when people say they need FF for video when $50K Reds, top of the line cinema Canons, and $50K Arris still have a S35 sensor in them. But hey, to each their own, if FF works for you then that's great. MFT is working for what I need...until that perfect hybrid comes along.

Exactly, FF35 is still completely "non-standard". 

 

[Lux Shots]

19 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

What "make it work" is there? 
Just have the lenses that work, and they work. 

 

And you wouldn't have distorted it just the same way with a 20mm lens on a FF35 camera?? (remember, that's 13mm S35!! I'll almost never see that used on a set. It is a bad day for me when it is! ha)
 

No it does not "open up more flexibility in lens choice and framing options on set".

In fact this is a common complaint from professional cinematographers, the limited number of cine FF35 lens sets there are. 

 

Exactly, FF35 is still completely "non-standard". 

 

It's not standard today. But who buys a camera today without looking for how it may fare in the future?

ZCam, Kinefinity, RED and Alexa all have full frame either released or in the queue.

Additionally, the S1 series being hybrid cameras truly needed full frame for better photography performance.

The nice thing is, you can still use your S35 glass with no problem, and get the look you've come accustomed to, with the option to graduate to full frame look in the future.

It's nice having options!🌞

[rosco]

Does the S5 have pro res raw support like the S1H ?

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, John Matthews said:

No disrespect to EOSHD, but 70mm sensor size? If you "need" this, I don't know why you're here. That's for high-end cinema. You're a video arts teacher... what level are your students? I'm sure you know this, but images don't get "bigger" with sensor size; that comes with the distance between the screen and your projector and usually this is fixed. I think it's important to distinguish between your needs and pure GAS.

No wonder we have so many people confused about sensor sizes and so called "crop factor" when the students' teachers are like that! Sigh
 

[SteveV4D]

52 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

It's not standard today. But who buys a camera today without looking for how it may fare in the future?

ZCam, Kinefinity, RED and Alexa all have full frame either released or in the queue.

Additionally, the S1 series being hybrid cameras truly needed full frame for better photography performance.

The nice thing is, you can still use your S35 glass with no problem, and get the look you've come accustomed to, with the option to graduate to full frame look in the future.

It's nice having options!🌞

Exactly, fullframe is needed for photography.  

The future is a funny thing and frankly I don't need to buy a 2025 camera now.  I can buy one easily enough in 2025.  I got a GH5 in 2017 and now seldom use it.  Instead a Pocket 4K from 2018 became my main choice, swiftly followed by a Pocket 6K from 2019.  

I live in the here and now and don't worry about the future for video.  Maybe in 5 years, 3D will be back in fashion.  Maybe 10k is what everyone is shooting.   Who knows.  

I never buy gear for the future, just for what I need now, and should it serve me well in the future, all the better.  

The only gear I invest in for the future is lenses.  Camera technology just changes too much over such a short period of time to consider it for future needs.

 

[Lux Shots]

12 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Exactly, fullframe is needed for photography.  

The future is a funny thing and frankly I don't need to buy a 2025 camera now.  I can buy one easily enough in 2025.  I got a GH5 in 2017 and now seldom use it.  Instead a Pocket 4K from 2018 became my main choice, swiftly followed by a Pocket 6K from 2019.  

I live in the here and now and don't worry about the future for video.  Maybe in 5 years, 3D will be back in fashion.  Maybe 10k is what everyone is shooting.   Who knows.  

I never buy gear for the future, just for what I need now, and should it serve me well in the future, all the better.  

The only gear I invest in for the future is lenses.  Camera technology just changes too much over such a short period of time to consider it for future needs.

 

The slope of change is getting very steep these days. I think we'll see full frame film production in cinema next year. You can also be certain there will be a stable of full frame cinema cameras from all of the DSLR manufactures.

Varicam is long in the tooth, Sony has the FX9, albeit with a fake 6K rating. Canon has the. LF camera, etc.

But even after that happens, it's not like all the S35 gear on the planet will vanish. They will be S35 films for the foreseeable future.

[John Matthews]

8 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Man definitely looked tempting, those Canon overheating gave me a huge pause.

Please stop referring to it as "overheating". That's exactly what they want us to believe. Canon has entered a new phase of "the cripple".

[MicahMahaffey]

2 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

It's not standard today. But who buys a camera today without looking for how it may fare in the future?

ZCam, Kinefinity, RED and Alexa all have full frame either released or in the queue.

Additionally, the S1 series being hybrid cameras truly needed full frame for better photography performance.

The nice thing is, you can still use your S35 glass with no problem, and get the look you've come accustomed to, with the option to graduate to full frame look in the future.

It's nice having options!🌞

Glad someone gets it. 

Full frame is something that's nice to have. 

I'd rather have full frame and not need it than need it and not have it. 

The future of Hollywood and the industry is clearly headed in the full frame direction. With more 35mm and larger sensors being used on more and more features. 

The Alexa 65 is pretty much the new standard for digital image quality and that specific camera has been used a lot since its release. 

Full frame cameras are getting more affordable, medium format cameras are getting more affordable. 

Theres just not a lot of a need for mft. But obviously itll always exist in more affordable cameras probably forever. 

In my mind, having a larger sensor helps your overall image more than 8k would. 

[MicahMahaffey]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

No wonder we have so many people confused about sensor sizes and so called "crop factor" when the students' teachers are like that! Sigh
 

Umm.. I feel like you've misunderstood what I said. 

 

[MicahMahaffey]

11 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

No it doesn't.  I think your mind is allowing you to see things here.. You're probably confusing aesthetics with the type of shots that 70mm are often used for.  Christopher Nolan loves 70mm, but on a small screen, its only in aspect ratio that leads you to see the differnce when he cuts between the 2 formats.  

Its the same people who say they love the fullframe look.  I've worked with fullframe and most of the time, there is no difference when cut with smaller sensor shots.  Only in cases of extreme depth of field at some angles can you see the effects of using fullframe.

Now you're getting aesthetic confused with aspect ratio. 

On 70mm light is drawn across the frame differently. There's a larger than life feel to it. 

Something about having the compression of a 50mm focal length while maintaining a wider image closer to 35mm gives a feeling, a look. 

Same goes for animorphic, it has it's own "look". It produces a bigger image, even when viewed on a small screen.

I could tell Joker was shot on the Alexa 65 after seeing the trailer. 

It just had that feeling. It had that big image look. 

It's hard to describe, but I remember having conversations in another forum a few years back and someone was telling me about how human eyes can't see more than 24fps and 4k isnt something humans can resolve. Which we all know is 1000% false. 

I guess the point is, just because you cant see the "look" doesnt mean it's not there. 

Cinematography is subjective enough without telling people they're wrong for liking something. 

You could go grab two different films, one shot on 35mm and another on 16mm and theres a good chance I'd be able to immediately tell which is which. 

Yes, its hard to tell when different sensor sizes are cut together. MFT is good enough for any professional/narrative work. In a lot of cases full frame might even be overkill. I just like the look of full frame. It's as simple as that. 

You dont have to notice the look I'm speaking of, but I do. 

[hyalinejim]

Can we leave chatter about equivalence to another thread? Everyone has already made up their mind about sensor size.

I'm interested in S5 news.

 

[ntblowz]

I hope Sirui can release their Anamorphic lens on L mount someday.. that will be nice for a compact anamorphic setup.

[SteveV4D]

2 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

The slope of change is getting very steep these days. I think we'll see full frame film production in cinema next year. You can also be certain there will be a stable of full frame cinema cameras from all of the DSLR manufactures.

 

And if fullframe becomes the norm, I'll invest in a fullframe video camera.  I won't invest in a fullframe hybrid and pretend I'm ready for a fullframe future.  

There are greater professionals than can be found here, out there shooting movies for cinema screens that are making better use of their S35 cinema cameras than those shooting fullframe hybrids right now because they love the look of fullframe. 

Let's not pretend that just because fullframe cinema is the future, someone can be ready for it by buying a fullframe Photo camera.

[SteveV4D]

1 hour ago, MicahMahaffey said:

 

You dont have to notice the look I'm speaking of, but I do. 

I don't think you give me enough credit.  I can see the benefits of fullframe and for that reason, I am looking at investing in one.  But for practical reasons like low light, more options for Photography.  Such look you speak is only really apparent in certain shots more unique to that sensor size.  Its not like 16mm vs 35mm film, where film grain is different, or anamorphic, where the image is squeezed and stretched, creating a unique look. Even 75mm or 65mm are only apparent as they are used in movies for those shots that really sell it.  Joker was filmed on other cameras as well, but would you be able to pick out which from viewing on a smartphone....   

[SteveV4D]

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The more I see, the more I like.

Only 2 questions really remain for me and those are; what is the AF going to be like and also I assume it’s a true hybrid and it is easy to flip between (and remember) different stills & video settings.

All will be revealed next week I guess...

As a long term user of Panasonic, I've gotten use to accepting a rubbish AF.  If this camera replaces my GH5, as long as it isn't worse, I can live with it.  I currently am already.  It would be nice if they raised their game here, but I think you'll have to wait until people are testing them before we get the full story.  Next weeks announcement will only be what Panasonic want is to know.  They are not going to tell us if the AF is rubbish.

As for stills and video settings, the S5 does seem to have custom modes on the dial.  I use them on the GH5 to slip between different photo and video settings.  Fingers crossed there.  

I'm more interested in price and final video specs.

[zerocool22]

5 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

As a long term user of Panasonic, I've gotten use to accepting a rubbish AF.  If this camera replaces my GH5, as long as it isn't worse, I can live with it.  I currently am already.  It would be nice if they raised their game here, but I think you'll have to wait until people are testing them before we get the full story.  Next weeks announcement will only be what Panasonic want is to know.  They are not going to tell us if the AF is rubbish.

As for stills and video settings, the S5 does seem to have custom modes on the dial.  I use them on the GH5 to slip between different photo and video settings.  Fingers crossed there.  

I'm more interested in price and final video specs.

Andrew will tell us if the AF is rubbish. 

[SteveV4D]

8 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Andrew will tell us if the AF is rubbish. 

Yes of course, I forgot he has some inside knowledge of this camera.  I assume he has to wait till the announcement to spill the beans.  I'm quite intrigued by this camera, so fingers crossed it is worth the wait.  Having been let down by the R5 and R6 announcment, I'm hoping for something that delivers on promise.

[sanveer]

4 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Yes of course, I forgot he has some inside knowledge of this camera. 

More like, he has the camera on him. Has had it probably for a few weeks. 

 

[SteveV4D]

7 minutes ago, sanveer said:

More like, he has the camera on him. Has had it probably for a few weeks. 

 

I hope Andrew's taken better care of it than the R5... 🔧 😂