Panasonic S5 Entry Level Full Frame seems to be real...

[Hanriverprod]

Do you know how many movies and dramas are shot in Korea every year? You mentioned two korean directors every redditor wanks off to. I just spoke to a Korean Producer who has a studio film in the korean theaters right now a couple of weeks ago about shooting long scenes with af lenses to keep track of the actors. I personally know dp's who have used sony and canon cameras the past year on all types of shoots using af. Why are there so many people on this site who think they know everything about what everyone is doing? And why are you interrogating me? But I'll play along.

No, I don't mean Bong joon ho or Park chan-wook.

They are using c300 mkii and fx9's and canon and sony lenses.

It's not for the whole production. Specific shots where they know they can save time and get the shot done. So yes most of the shoots are of course done with an ac/puller.

I personally know and have worked with these people. I have worked in the Korean film industry for over 12 years now and worked in film and tv in NYC since the early 90s. I am very aware of how productions work. I have done everything from tape dubbing to dping indie films to directing short films and theatrically released feature films.

And no I won't share people's names with you. Just deal with the fact the world is bigger than what your perspective might be.

Here's a rental house a few blocks away from me. A lot of productions in Seoul rent from houses like this. Go to the cine camera section and then the lens section and then draw your own conclusions.

https://www.slrrent.com/kr/

[MrSMW]

14 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

I rarely use auto-focus.  I am curious though, for those that seem to prioritize it as a needed spec before buying a camera body, why exactly?  What are you doing so often that it's invaluable to you?  This isn't snark, I just don't shoot in way where I feel I need it, so I'd like to know why it moves the needle for others. 

Is it vlogging?

It's vlogging, isn't it? 

Hybrid wedding capture.

I will manual focus certain static parts of the day but anything that involves subject movement and flitting between stills & video, good AF is a must.

[Hanriverprod]

But yes probably 99% of film production is shot on cine lenses with focus puller. But some productions will use an af lens on some shots like a long tracking shot with an actor. I don't know specific scenes from movies or tv shows but pds and dps have told me they have done this to save time and cut down on takes. And these are all from conversations the past maybe year and half so this is a new thing. Also, be aware that new tech is adopted quickly in Korea especially if it can save time and money. Korean productions move very fast with low budgets. I don't want to seem argumentative but I think af will be used more and more often for specific types of shots. I know this to be a fact because I am prepping a film and have personally discussed using af lens for some long shots in a tight interior location where it would just make more sense.

Anyway sorry to derail this thread but I think Panasonic definitely needs to sort out their af situation for documentary shooters, event shooters and even some indie filmmakers.

[fuzzynormal]

44 minutes ago, Hanriverprod said:

Panasonic definitely needs to sort out their af situation for documentary shooters, event shooters and even some indie filmmakers.

That's interesting as I'm a documentarian and, again, I rarely use AF.  Maybe I'm an exception that proves the rule?  As I said, I'm really in the dark as to why AF should be such an important spec to have, but if it is, it is.

[Geoff CB]

Very few mirrorless cameras are sold to shoot a feature on, and if they are they are NOT the main audience and buyer for these cameras. DSLR's are being bought buy one man bands, or as gimbal cameras, or for people to take photos/video (Weddings/concerts/music videos) All of those situations benefit from AF. 

Also these camera's do not exist in a vacuum, all the other brands now have decent video AF.

[currensheldon]

Been on a lot of doc shoots, some small, some big. I’ve never seen AF used and it has failed me so many times during personal projects or tests that I would never use it on a shoot someone was paying me for.
 

A shot slightly out of focus and then finding focus (like manual focusing) looks totally fine. A shot where the focus suddenly goes to the background or kicks off and starts searching is 100% totally ruined - this “unnatural” AF behavior is too common still. That has happened with Canon and Sony AF too often. I’d rather just hit it myself manually which, honestly, isn’t that difficult. 

[Video Hummus]

Then there are some like Brandon Li that make their living with one or two cameras on gimbals with heavy use of AF. To each their own. I would rather have AF and hit the MF switch when I want to.

[no_connection]

"3.98p, 72Mbps (4:2:0 10-bit LongGOP) (H.265/HEVC, AAC)"

Is that really official spec? Maybe it leaked going out for spell check, but even then it's a bit too glaring of a typo.

[currensheldon]

47 minutes ago, no_connection said:

"3.98p, 72Mbps (4:2:0 10-bit LongGOP) (H.265/HEVC, AAC)"

Is that really official spec? Maybe it leaked going out for spell check, but even then it's a bit too glaring of a typo.

I think it's just missing a "2" - so 23.98, 72mbps 

I actually loved this Codec on the S1, though I don't believe it made it to the S1H. Having a 10-bit codec with such small file sizes was pretty great and if you hit exposure right, was very high-quality for what it was. 

[no_connection]

Yea but it sticks out like a sore thumb, so it's ether deliberate by someone or it's Panasonic not reading through. I know some rumor sites like to change things just to see who copies who.

[ade towell]

If I had a penny for every time... 

AF was discussed in a Panasonic thread

Zombie skin tones in a Sony thread

Cripple hammer (& the new kid on the block - overheating) in a Canon thread

I'd be able to buy all of them and still be complaining about not having the perfect camera. The Japanese cartel is alive and well

[fuzzynormal]

2 hours ago, currensheldon said:

Been on a lot of doc shoots, some small, some big. I’ve never seen AF used...out of focus and then finding focus (like manual focusing) looks totally fine.

Yeah, that's my thing too. 

Give me a person manually hunting for focus if need be.  It's actually a pleasant aesthetic, I think.  I'm not knocking anyone that uses AF.  My wife does, for example, (she's stills oriented) but I'm just not that into it for motion pictures...and when I see many cool hybrid cameras passionately dismissed because they lack high-end AF capabilities, I'm curious about that rationale.

An affordable FF camera like this S5 --made affordable because it's without all the bells and whistles sounds pretty great to me.

[herein2020]

34 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Yeah, that's my thing too. 

Give me a person manually hunting for focus if need be.  It's actually a pleasant aesthetic, I think.  I'm not knocking anyone that uses AF.  My wife does, for example, (she's stills oriented) but I'm just not that into it for motion pictures...and when I see many cool hybrid cameras passionately dismissed because they lack high-end AF capabilities, I'm curious about that rationale.

An affordable FF camera like this S5 --made affordable because it's without all the bells and whistles sounds pretty great to me.

I have a GH5 and have always manually focused but there is one simple scenario where I would definitely use AF...on a gimbal. I don't trust AF in 95% of the situations I encounter yet I will not replace my GH5 with a camera that does not have a better AF system. I am typically a one man band run and gun shooter shooting everything from music videos to interviews, the main time I would like AF is in certain situations when doing gimbal work.

My GH5 is good enough for most of the situations that I encounter that I don't see a reason to replace it if I cannot use the replacement for both photography as well as video and if the AF is no better than what is in the GH5. If I had a focus puller or had any way to manually pull focus while the camera is on a gimbal it would not be that important to me.

It is pretty funny though, just the other day I was shooting a music video and I had just filled the room with smoke and set the lighting and was shooting on the C200; I decided for one of the takes to use AF.....well guess what, the C200 could not focus at all on any of the talent due to the smoke, so back to MF I went.

 

But back to the topic of the S5...it is DOA for me, if this camera is why there is no GH6 then I will be sorely disappointed. I have all the MFT glass I want and my GH5 already has no recording time limits, never overheats, does dual card slot recording, etc. I have a feeling the S5 will have a recording time limit like the S1, may not work with the XLR audio module, and will require me to invest in L mount lenses. It also does not do 4K120FPS, and I still would prefer my Canon 5DIV for photography.

[Kisaha]

4 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

But yes probably 99% of film production is shot on cine lenses with focus puller. But some productions will use an af lens on some shots like a long tracking shot with an actor. I don't know specific scenes from movies or tv shows but pds and dps have told me they have done this to save time and cut down on takes. And these are all from conversations the past maybe year and half so this is a new thing. Also, be aware that new tech is adopted quickly in Korea especially if it can save time and money. Korean productions move very fast with low budgets. I don't want to seem argumentative but I think af will be used more and more often for specific types of shots. I know this to be a fact because I am prepping a film and have personally discussed using af lens for some long shots in a tight interior location where it would just make more sense.

Anyway sorry to derail this thread but I think Panasonic definitely needs to sort out their af situation for documentary shooters, event shooters and even some indie filmmakers.

I am not interrogating you, I am genuinely curious. 

I believe that Koreans can do it differently, and probably they will be the first to use AF.

 It is that I work a couple of decades in the industry in 3 different European countries and AF is not used at all in higher productions, for a lot of reasons that are well documented in this and other forums.

The only time I have used touch AF (and not C-AF) is on non critical shots and it will stay like this.

We are talking about an entry level camera here, I do not expect its footage to be nationally televised, here or there, but yes, I demand great AF on a hybrid camera in 2020.

Sorry if I sounded too critical, I wasn't, I just know what I know and AF is not really a huge deal for demanding video work, it is more a lower level production thingy, and something for the younger crowds.

Vlogers/bloggers/young wedding creators that are not very experienced with focusing and other one man's bands not able to excel on another part of a video production.

[currensheldon]

28 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

But back to the topic of the S5...it is DOA for me, if this camera is why there is no GH6 then I will be sorely disappointed. I have all the MFT glass I want and my GH5 already has no recording time limits, never overheats, does dual card slot recording, etc. I have a feeling the S5 will have a recording time limit like the S1, may not work with the XLR audio module, and will require me to invest in L mount lenses. It also does not do 4K120FPS, and I still would prefer my Canon 5DIV for photography.

It's definitely a full-frame L-Mount camera, so if you want an MFT camera, the S5 won't be it. Though, I still think a GH6 is coming.

The S5 is compatible with the XLR-module, has dual SD card slots, and it doesn't appear to have recording limits (some are listed, but seem to mean battery life, as the "limit" is 110 minutes). 

[SteveV4D]

I'm a Wedding shooter and use Panasonic GH cameras and the Pocket cameras.  So I've had to get use to no or crap AF.  Ideally I want a fullframe with good AF, mainly for gimbal shots.  The R6 is ideal except for poor codec and non DCI.  If it didn't overheat, I could live with the other 2 cons for me, but overheat worries me. 

This S5 interests me.  I would like to see the price and then decide if AF is that important to me.  It wouldn't be a main camera.  If it has weather sealing and focuses as well as a GH5s, I could cope.  I've never had a camera with great AF and what you've never had, you've never missed.  I can live with 30 min clip limit. 

What makes the R6 a concern is that the clip limit will be heat dependant and on how much you use it.  I don't have to decide now and by then the R6 will have been widely circulated.  Everyone is fixed on the R5 at the moment with their tests.  Its little brother gets no attention at all.

At the moment, the S5 specs are rumour.  I'll follow the eventual announcement with interest.

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, currensheldon said:

It's definitely a full-frame L-Mount camera, so if you want an MFT camera, the S5 won't be it. Though, I still think a GH6 is coming.

The S5 is compatible with the XLR-module, has dual SD card slots, and it doesn't appear to have recording limits (some are listed, but seem to mean battery life, as the "limit" is 110 minutes). 

You are correct, I went back and read the full specs, this camera seems really cool, kind of like what the R6 should have been but without Canon's 1DXIII sensor, color science, or AF.  Am I wrong to read about cameras like this and still sit here hoping Canon gets their act together for the R5 and R6? If I did not already have the GH5 and needed a gimbal camera this would probably be what I would get.

[Hanriverprod]

I’m talking about af here not mirrorless on a film shoot. Although there are mirrorless cameras being used on some shorts and microbudget features in Korea. And yes af is used all the time in docs and tv format shows here. I don’t know why people find this so surprising. On some korean tv shows they will have 5 to 20 cameras following the actors/hosts/subjects from camcorders to fs7s to mirrorless and all that footage will be intercut together. And yes most of that will be af. 
 

again I think koreans think very differently about tech like this. If it works they use it. They don’t debate about aesthetics or tradition that much. I apologize as well if I sounded defensive or argumentative. But I still think panasonic absolutely needs to deliver great af 🙂

[Hanriverprod]

I mean some of that will be af not most. 

[thebrothersthre3]

At around $1300 I might pick one up. Will be great alongside my S1. As long as its got 4k 10 bit 30p