fuzzynormal Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 32 minutes ago, Hanriverprod said: I still think panasonic absolutely needs to deliver great af You're not wrong. Good specs help sell cameras. People like me say they don't need it, but in a few years when all manufacturers offer it and it's decent across the board even on middle and low-end models, I'll end up with it --and when that happens I assume I'll find the same practical use for it as everyone else, for sure. Just not going out of my way to acquire it right now. Hanriverprod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 32 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said: At around $1300 I might pick one up. Will be great alongside my S1. As long as its got 4k 10 bit 30p It has 10bit 422 and even 4k60p 10bit 420 APSC. Much better than S1 without VLog update. So S1 is the entry level cam for video. 1300USD for the S5? Maybe better to sell mine now and to get a S5 later one instead of buying the Vlog update for 200EU! I think, Panasonic should give the S1 the update for free, if 10bit 4K60 included even more awesome. 5 hours ago, currensheldon said: I think it's just missing a "2" - so 23.98, 72mbps I actually loved this Codec on the S1, though I don't believe it made it to the S1H. Having a 10-bit codec with such small file sizes was pretty great and if you hit exposure right, was very high-quality for what it was. I have a S1 without the Vlog update and I am sofore filming with the slim 75mbit 10 bit 420. It is pretty nice indeed with its HLG. It is very bad on evenly coloured plain surfaces with super nasty artefacts and blocks if graded a bit stronger. So best to do a test before using it for professional shoots. Other than that it has great colour and gradation. It is better in the dark as well the 8bit 100mbit h264. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I use manual focus for a lot of work, but Panasonic needs reliable auto focus if only to ensure the viability of their cameras moving forward. It's a feature that people expect and not giving it to them does not bode well for acceptance/growth in a market that is already shrinking. This release really, really concerns me about the future of M43. I'll give them until the end of the year to announce something / anything about a GH6, otherwise I'm going to heavily consider a move to a different system while my gear still has some re-sale value. And while the S1H is very enticing, I don't know if I can justify moving from one Panasonic system to another if they're going to ignore their most dedicated users. Sony might be the better long term investment if this is how Panasonic will be moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylee Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 17 hours ago, Kisaha said: This is not how movies work! things are changing tho. i was late to the video autofocus party but i love it now. i was skeptical too standards are different now. at least they are for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 hours ago, PannySVHS said: It has 10bit 422 and even 4k60p 10bit 420 APSC. Much better than S1 without VLog update. So S1 is the entry level cam for video. 1300USD for the S5? Maybe better to sell mine now and to get a S5 later one instead of buying the Vlog update for 200EU! I think, Panasonic should give the S1 the update for free, if 10bit 4K60 included even more awesome. I have a S1 without the Vlog update and I am sofore filming with the slim 75mbit 10 bit 420. It is pretty nice indeed with its HLG. It is very bad on evenly coloured plain surfaces with super nasty artefacts and blocks if graded a bit stronger. So best to do a test before using it for professional shoots. Other than that it has great colour and gradation. It is better in the dark as well the 8bit 100mbit h264. Wtf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanriverprod Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Not to beat a dead horse but here are some pics of Korean productions. They are using dozens of camera operators using braodcast camcorders to camcorders to digital cine cameras to dslrs and mirrorless and many of them are using af. These cameramen will work on tv dramas, commercials, tv docs and even films so a lot of these workflows spill over into each other. And yes for af they are all probably using sony or canon. This is why panasonic needs to address their af to bring all this back to the subject at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Hanriverprod said: I’m talking about af here not mirrorless on a film shoot. Although there are mirrorless cameras being used on some shorts and microbudget features in Korea. And yes af is used all the time in docs and tv format shows here. I don’t know why people find this so surprising. On some korean tv shows they will have 5 to 20 cameras following the actors/hosts/subjects from camcorders to fs7s to mirrorless and all that footage will be intercut together. And yes most of that will be af. again I think koreans think very differently about tech like this. If it works they use it. They don’t debate about aesthetics or tradition that much. I apologize as well if I sounded defensive or argumentative. But I still think panasonic absolutely needs to deliver great af 🙂 I think my problem is I have yet to work with a camera that has reliable AF when shooting video. I hear about all of these great new AF systems but I'm still shooting on the GH5 using 100% manual lenses so no AF even if the GH5 had any, the C200 which is typically locked down on a tripod or hand held so I prefer using MF there too, and my 5DIV which puts a big box in the middle of the screen and you better hope that box is on your subject. Speaking of the C200 it supposedly has good AF, but the few times I've tried it, it always seems to be a scenario where it doesn't work; like if the talent is wearing a hat or wears glasses then the face AF doesn't work, if you've added haze to the scene the AF doesn't work, if the ND filters are too strong, the AF doesn't work. If I ever end up with a camera that actually has reliable AF I'd be the first one to jump on the AF bandwagon. currensheldon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 hours ago, herein2020 said: I think my problem is I have yet to work with a camera that has reliable AF when shooting video. I hear about all of these great new AF systems but I'm still shooting on the GH5 using 100% manual lenses so no AF even if the GH5 had any, the C200 which is typically locked down on a tripod or hand held so I prefer using MF there too, and my 5DIV which puts a big box in the middle of the screen and you better hope that box is on your subject. Speaking of the C200 it supposedly has good AF, but the few times I've tried it, it always seems to be a scenario where it doesn't work; like if the talent is wearing a hat or wears glasses then the face AF doesn't work, if you've added haze to the scene the AF doesn't work, if the ND filters are too strong, the AF doesn't work. If I ever end up with a camera that actually has reliable AF I'd be the first one to jump on the AF bandwagon. GH5 offers broadcast ready codecs. C200 and other mirrorless and dslrs usually not. I am not sure how things are done in Korea but in Europe there are specific standards for televised or film projects and the codec is an important part of it. As of thr pictures are fellow friend posted above: In all three pictues I see camcorders, only in the first there is another camera but BEHIND the blue line, which I assume is not part of the production. The second picture is like a press conference and still I see camcorders and in the third there are clearly 3 camcorders. Can't even really see a FS7 type of camera which is/was a staple in the industry. These 3 productions do not seem like a scripted production, which is what I was talking about in the first place, there must be some kind of reality shows and the second one seems more like a press conference, which camcorders and their smaller sensors are used mostly for those anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 This seems like a strong release by Panasonic. I am not sure if this has been posted already with the (almost) full specs http://thenewcamera.com/tag/panasonic-s5/ AF is going to be THE issue, price rumored to be 1800$ which is close to 2000€, not that cheap but very capable it seems. It is not just the poor relative of the S series, there are significant characteristics to make it appealing to a lot of customers. I am not sure why Panasonic sticks to this AF technology and even if they change, how much time they will need to catch up.. I still have to see the "new" GH to have a complete knowledge of the market and choose accordingly. I was quite "shocked" when I saw the sales percentages and Panasonic is at just 4.7% with Fuji. I was expecting a bit more from Pana and their more diverse line up. deezid, PannySVHS and Thpriest 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 28 minutes ago, Kisaha said: AF is going to be THE issue, price rumored to be 1800$ which is close to 2000€, not that cheap but very capable it seems. It is not just the poor relative of the S series, there are significant characteristics to make it appealing to a lot of customers. I think, the S1 looks like the poor relative to the S series, being without the nice codecs of the S5 and the 10bit 4k60p. Instead S1 owners have to pay 200EU for the software update but without 10bit 4K60p! Question is, selling the S1 now or buy the update? Some cheap used S1s will appear on Ebay soon, I think, if specs of S5 are true and if camera is without caveheats. Why the name S5 anyway- to compliment the name logic of the GH5? Makes the S1 look even more like treated as the poor relative by Panasonic. Of course S1 is still a great camera. We will know more soon. No reason to complain, just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, PannySVHS said: I think, the S1 looks like the poor relative to the S series, being without the nice codecs of the S5 and the 10bit 4k60p. Instead S1 owners have to pay 200EU for the software update but without 10bit 4K60p! Question is, selling the S1 now or buy the update? Some cheap used S1s will appear on Ebay soon, I think, if specs of S5 are true and if camera is without caveheats. Why the name S5 anyway- to compliment the name logic of the GH5? Makes the S1 look even more like treated as the poor relative by Panasonic. Of course S1 is still a great camera. We will know more soon. No reason to complain, just sayin. First of all we should all wait for the final announcements. The S1 is, supposedly, a better design for more demanding situations. Maybe there will be a firmware upgrade soon. I think S5 is more similar to the rumored A5 and Z5, entry level full frame cameras. There will be a GH6 soon, I hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, Kisaha said: First of all we should all wait for the final announcements. The S1 is, supposedly, a better design for more demanding situations. Maybe there will be a firmware upgrade soon. Well, supposely the specs are real, the S5 is better regarding codecs and VLog profile out of the box. Firmware update for S1 or information about it would be very appreciated. Would be a bummer to buy the VLog update right before a free one. Would be wasted 200 squids! My work with the S1 is 90% video. So S5 looks more promising to me at the moment than S1, if usuability is similar to the S1 regarding video. deezid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 9 hours ago, PannySVHS said: Well, supposely the specs are real, the S5 is better regarding codecs and VLog profile out of the box. Firmware update for S1 or information about it would be very appreciated. Would be a bummer to buy the VLog update right before a free one. Would be wasted 200 squids! My work with the S1 is 90% video. So S5 looks more promising to me at the moment than S1, if usuability is similar to the S1 regarding video. I'm just curious, if you already own the S1 is the S5 really so much better that you would buy it? If the GH6 had such minor upgrades over the GH5 I would not buy it. I think the only thing that would get me into a GH6 would be 4K120. Dual gain ISO, and ProRes would be pretty nice too though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Wow, did anyone else notice this camera will have dual native ISO? As per the spec sheet, now that's pretty impressive. I think ISO 100 and ISO 1600 would have been more useful but still, I did not expect to see dual native ISO in an "entry level" mirrorless. Panasonic just never ceases to surprise me; except in the AF department. Dual Native ISO [Normal] Native ISO: 100, 640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/16/2020 at 2:23 AM, Hanriverprod said: No, I don't mean Bong joon ho or Park chan-wook. They are using c300 mkii and fx9's and canon and sony lenses. It's not for the whole production. Specific shots where they know they can save time and get the shot done. So yes most of the shoots are of course done with an ac/puller. I can see AF having a great appeal in lower budget productions (exactly the kinds of ones that would use a C300/FX9! And not an ARRI), where they'll have a 1st AC (because productions need that, even if no focus pulling is being done) but they'll lack the budget for a proper professional career 1st AC. Instead they'll have say a 2nd AC who is stepping up, or perhaps a videographer who supplements his work with a bit of AC work, and those kinds of folk. Thus the bulk of the shooting is done with manual focus pulling on nice cinema lenses, but for tricky shots such as on a gimbal or long tracking shots (which are stretching beyond the capabilities of this focus puller moonlighting as a "1st AC") then they switch over to a native AF lens. Hanriverprod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 8 hours ago, herein2020 said: I'm just curious, if you already own the S1 is the S5 really so much better that you would buy it? If the GH6 had such minor upgrades over the GH5 I would not buy it. I think the only thing that would get me into a GH6 would be 4K120. Dual gain ISO, and ProRes would be pretty nice too though. S5 is the entry model, so price will be lower. It has VLOG and all the 10bit codecs plus 10bit in 4K60p. As a S1 owner i will have to pay another 200EU for that, still not having 10bit 4K60. I would´nt want the 4K60 in 10bit if HD quality would be close to the stellar HD quality of the GH5, which it is by far not. All that if specs and rumors are for real, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchtape Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On the rumor page it said DFD AF system. Guaranteeing another "win" for Panasonic... If they thought S1 sales were disappointing hope they're ready for more... Mark Romero 2 and Geoff CB 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Well, let’s wait and see but yes its disappointing. I can’t see them having the S5 with the the same specs basically as the S1. Rumored announcements coming in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Definitely looked smaller https://www.l-rumors.com/another-leaked-teaser-image-of-the-panasonic-s5/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamlumiere Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 For the weight, size and this one feature 👇 I would sell my S1 and get the S5 [Anamorphic 4K] 3328×2496 (4:3), 29.97p, 150Mbps (4:2:2 10-bit LongGOP) / 100Mbps (4:2:0 8-bit LongGOP) (H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, LPCM) 23.98p, 150Mbps (4:2:2 10-bit LongGOP) / 100Mbps (4:2:0 8-bit LongGOP) (H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, LPCM) [FHD] 1920×1080 59.94p, 100Mbps (4:2:2 10-bit LongGOP) / 100Mbps (4:2:0 8-bit LongGOP) (H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, LPCM) 29.97p, 100Mbps (4:2:2 10-bit LongGOP) / 100Mbps (4:2:0 8-bit LongGOP) (H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, LPCM) 23.98p, 100Mbps (4:2:2 10-bit LongGOP) / 100Mbps (4:2:0 8-bit LongGOP) (H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, LPCM) Geoff CB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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