Canon EOS R5 overheated in my fridge! After just 60 JPEGs! (4 °C ambient)

[Frankenstein]

Thank you Andrew for conducting such repeatable test and showing the world what Canon has allegedly done in the R5 firmware. As Philip Bloom has said in his live stream, it is a timer, nothing else. 

I wonder what if we don't shoot any jpg at all, will the timer start to tick down? Just turn on the camera, stay on the video menu without recording for 1hr, will that be the same? What about just stay in the menu with LCD on? 

 

Many thanks Andrew your work is much appreciated.

[visionrouge]

Quote

Yep, it overheats!

No it does not overheat.
It is a fake information displayed on the screen to stop you for recording video HQ based on time and not temperatures.

Canon never says taking a 60 pictures per hour will stop you from taking video in HQ mode. 

Sorry; These are plain lies from the brand that limits the video capability drastically. The 8K logo on the main poster is clearly misleading. This was never explained anywhere.

[salim]

At this rate Canon will happily trade @Andrew Reid Canon R5 for an EOS C500 II at no extra cost. 

 

[LukeM]

Thank you Andrew for beiing persistent in revealing this hideous move from Canon.

[ajay]

So...let me play the devil's advocate here and make sure nothing is being overlooked with Andrew's latest test:

• Do we know with absolute certainty that Canon is using the EXIF temperature data to determine when to shut down the camera? For example, what if there is a temperature sensor on the back of the sensor itself? That sensor is floating w/o a heat sink. It very well could overheat while the remainder of the camera stays warm but not hot.
• It appears wifi was enabled during the test. This typically generates more heat. Why did temperatures remain constant while wifi was operating. I would think they would rise even in a fridge. Again, are we missing some other temperature sensor in this camera other than what's being reported by EXIF data?
• Andrew states "Overheat control was turned off in the menus, as I find it makes little difference to video mode and shouldn’t be needed in a fridge."  I don't understand why this option was turned off. Why not give the camera every opportunity not to overheat when in stand-by mode?

Please note: I'm not trying to stir the pot here. Just trying to do a check-and-balances to make sure the test hasn't overlooked some other possibilities. Troubleshooting requires reducing the number of variables.

[ajay]

Another question, was the camera allowed to reach the ambient temperature of the fridge prior to powering on the camera? It would seem that the camera would need to be chilled for at least 2 hours before conducting the test. (The starting EXIF temperature reading should have been close to the temperature of the refridgerator prior to the start of the test.)

 

[Yurolov]

24 minutes ago, ajay said:

Do we know with absolute certainty that Canon is using the EXIF temperature data to determine when to shut down the camera? For example, what if there is a temperature sensor on the back of the sensor itself? That sensor is floating w/o a heat sink. It very well could overheat while the remainder of the camera stays warm but not hot.

Can this be sourced from the firmware? 

[User]

"These are plain lies from the brand that limits the video capability drastically. The 8K logo on the main poster is clearly misleading. This was never explained anywhere."

Did you really think Canon would just... deliver?

Say it with me... the Cinema line. There is no substitute.

[Roland Ayala]

Your experience doesn't match my experience at all. I've shot hundreds of photos consecutively no issues whatsoever.

Heat is generated from within the camera and if the body and packaging are not efficient at transferring heat out of the system (which seems to be the case considering Canon's stated recovery times) then that's going to be the primary factor determining how quickly the camera heats-up (or cools down). I wouldn't expect operating the camera in a refrigerator to help much.

Hopefully Canon has been overly conservative with their internal temp limiter as some rumors have suggested might be the case.

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

Next step, test it in liquid nitrogen! 

[Oliver Daniel]

It’s actually darkly hilarious that we all though the Cripple Hammer had gone, but just when the penny dropped, Canon unleash their deadliest cripple of all. 

[Jay]

6 hours ago, User said:

"These are plain lies from the brand that limits the video capability drastically. The 8K logo on the main poster is clearly misleading. This was never explained anywhere."

Did you really think Canon would just... deliver?

TBF, whatever you thought about their specs, they have always delivered a standard of reliability. That has now been shattered.

[User]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

TBF, whatever you thought about their specs, they have always delivered a standard of reliability. That has now been shattered.

Agreed. But still, anyone who thinks Canon are going to undermine their Cinema line are living in an odd kind of wishful thinking fantasy world. Anyone with a bit of sence could see this coming.

Anyone who buys these cameras is signaling to Canon that what they've done is acceptable... and to do this again. Dig your own grave?

[Andrew Reid]

9 hours ago, visionrouge said:

No it does not overheat.
It is a fake information displayed on the screen to stop you for recording video HQ based on time and not temperatures.

Canon never says taking a 60 pictures per hour will stop you from taking video in HQ mode. 

Sorry; These are plain lies from the brand that limits the video capability drastically. The 8K logo on the main poster is clearly misleading. This was never explained anywhere.

Canon's only admitted that live-view shortens the record times. What they really mean is that the record times vanish to nothing after 60 stills in winter at nearly 0C ambient!

Obscuring the real performance much... Blaze of hype, and some best case scenario 20-30 min continuous record times. It is deeply misleading stuff.

They also said the magnesium alloy body is used to dissipate heat from the internal components, and they intentionally mitigate 'significant heat' from processing 8K this way.

This is also a lie because as we see from the teardown there is no thermal pad or effective conductivity between the processor and magnesium alloy. There is even a circuit board sandwiched in over top of CPU for good measure.

I honestly don't know how the Japanese engineers sleep at night. The loss of face both publicly and with other engineers must make them reconsider working for Canon at some point.

[Avenger 2.0]

36 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I honestly don't know how the Japanese engineers sleep at night. The loss of face both publicly and with other engineers must make them reconsider working for Canon at some point.

Maybe electronic design was outsourced to China and software to India 🤣

[TimmiS]

Another slightly devil’s advocate type analysis...

Imagine an old fashioned electric bar heater in room of a house. There are three temperatures we could measure. The environmental (outside), the room and the heating element. There are clearly some relationships between these measurements. But not linear or simple ones. The temperature of the fire itself will rapidly increase but then stabilise - irrespective of the room or environmental temperatures. It is easy to imagine that the fire has a safety feature such that after X minutes at T degrees it shuts off. That shut off time is not proportional to the environmental (cf the fridge) or room (cf camera body) temperature. Neither of those temperatures has a significant effect on the temperature of the heating element of the fire.
Now, if the Canon API reported temperature is the “room” (possibly the camera body) that is clearly irrelevant to the critical “heater” (the sensor or CPU or part thereof?) temperature and would not, therefore, relate to the shut down. Of course, this doesn’t eliminate the possibility that the shut down might be simply on a timer and not contingent on any measured temperature - but I suggest that it might be based on a “time at temperature” model of some key component or part thereof. The latter view permits some variation with the timings which seem to be reported (if on a simple timer it would be expected that no variation would be observed).

If this type of analysis is correct then measuring temperatures or using reported temperatures doesn’t address the actual issue. The issue remains one of fundamentally abject design and/or manufacture or a totally bizarre business decision (and certainly offers absolutely no defence of Canon). Someone needs to get this camera into a physics lab and get to work on it... then send the findings to an “on the balance of probabilities” expert.

[no_connection]

Would be funny if the temperature is wrongly mathed so that any temperature below (or above) trigger a "hot" condition defaulting to a timer based limit. Such limit would make sense since you can predict roughly how much you can get out of the sensor before it overheats without actually measuring it.

But in non bugged mode it would be temperature based up to that threshold. And when it triggers it would start countdown meaning you can predict how much you have left.

Say for example it is now set up to take the average temperature from a number of sensors, including card. But card is bugged so it reads like 100*c taking the average into "hot" condition and then put a time limit.

 

Regardless of what the cause is it's pretty much inexcusable at this point.

[mechanicalEYE]

 

[A_Urquhart]

7 hours ago, no_connection said:

Regardless of what the cause is it's pretty much inexcusable at this point.

Yep, there are so many great cameras out there ...there really is no need to be dealing with Canon's BS. 

[mechanicalEYE]

We see Matti mentioning EOSHD, and the other Youtubers are using his articles as reference for uploads, Canon might be trying to figure out how to get Andrew on the team.