Removing internal battery resets EOS R5 overheat timer

[Nautical]

3 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I am absolutely not saying that someone who had an R5 could use a good old fashioned CR2032 battery eliminator in the camera then bring it out through the camera enabling them to provide a switchable power source to it to effectively remove/re-insert it without taking the camera apart each time they want to reset the recovery time.

I'm absolutely not saying that.

Someone else might say that.

But, just to be clear, I'm not saying that at all, OK?

I am not asking for myself, asking for a friend but is this the kind of eliminator you are not talking about?

 

[Emanuel]

21 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I am absolutely not saying that someone who had an R5 could use a good old fashioned CR2032 battery eliminator in the camera then bring it out through the camera enabling them to provide a switchable power source to it to effectively remove/re-insert it without taking the camera apart each time they want to reset the recovery time.

I'm absolutely not saying that.

Someone else might say that.

But, just to be clear, I'm not saying that at all, OK?

No worries, I promise to keep it secret. No one will know it from my side. I can't say the same for the others here, I'm sorry (Cannot doesn't, but we will on their behalf, deal? ;- )

https://hackaday.com/2020/04/24/a-cr2032-battery-eliminator/

[BTM_Pix]

17 minutes ago, Nautical said:

I am not asking for myself, asking for a friend but is this the kind of eliminator you are not talking about?

 

That is certainly in line with the sort of thing I'm not talking about.

It's likely a smaller battery in the R5 so it would likely require a smaller version of what I'm sure we can all agree that I'm absolutely not talking about.

[Nautical]

7 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

That is certainly in line with the sort of thing I'm not talking about.

It's likely a smaller battery in the R5 so it would likely require a smaller version of what I'm sure we can all agree that I'm absolutely not talking about.

My friend will appreciate this non-advice very much.  Thanks.

[Nautical]

Also Tilta.....think battery eliminators.....not coolers.     

[Caleb Genheimer]

Yea, at this point it’s high time for someone to crack the camera firmware and see what they can actually do with the hardware. Either that, or they need to get on it with a similarly priced Cine cam. Put the same hardware in a new box with active cooling. 
 

It is also high time for the competition to kick Canon’s butt on AF performance. AF is their last bastion of defense. Honestly, if the Panasonic S1H had AF on the level of the latest Canon Cine cameras, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation, the S1H would be a virtually flawless Full Frame camera (IBIS, Dynamic Range, Open Gate, 6K, High Framerates...) 

[Video Hummus]

Pants down and knickers shit.

Maybe the few that got a non-recalled R5 are the lucky ones now. There will no doubt be mods to enable 8K in 20 minute recording chunks with a 2 minute cool down now that we know the true internal temps.

[Cliff Totten]

32 minutes ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

Yea, at this point it’s high time for someone to crack the camera firmware and see what they can actually do with the hardware. Either that, or they need to get on it with a similarly priced Cine cam. Put the same hardware in a new box with active cooling. 
 

It is also high time for the competition to kick Canon’s butt on AF performance. AF is their last bastion of defense. Honestly, if the Panasonic S1H had AF on the level of the latest Canon Cine cameras, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation, the S1H would be a virtually flawless Full Frame camera (IBIS, Dynamic Range, Open Gate, 6K, High Framerates...) 

Yes,...if the S1H did have phase detect AF, it WOULD be flawless. Too dangerous and that us why it won't ever have PDAF.

The camera industry has a "pizza pie" of customers. They work together to divide the customer revenue so that each company has a "group" to live off of. Panasonic has its crowd, Sony has its people, Cannot and Fuji and Oly each have their own customers...for carefully calculated reasons.

The Japaneese camera industry is an important one for the country of Japan. Its almost a "national pride" issue. They cherish it and the Japanese companies want each company to succeed or at least survive as a matter of pride and respect for each other. Each company will spar with each other, yes!...but always see that each refuses to deliver a true "knockout" blow to the other. Ot just won't ever happen.

This is why every camera will be crippled in some way to save the Japaneese "brotherhood" from being destroyed.

Everybody is given a bowling lane to operate and survive in. The camera crippling we have all seen in the past 20+ years is no accident. Its mostly designed to preserve the health of the Japaneese camera industry as a whole.

Believe it or not....but Sony doesn't want Cannot to die. Cannot doesnt want Lumix to die...etc. They are each valuable to the country they all love.

[dgvro]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Sometimes I lose faith in the camera industry completely and think about moving on. Maybe do smartphone camera reviews, now they are at enthusiast level and really quite unique in some regards. But then I realise there is just so much immorality, face saving and arrogance everywhere I look. On the streets, in people's personal lives, in businesses up and down the country, around the world, small and large, that any efforts to correct this or open people's eyes in any small way is basically a teardrop in the sewer.

while reading this inspired monologue I'm feeling like R5 must stand for Ror5chach and a Canon Doomsday crippleclock is ticking down to 2 minutes to 12 in a VIP DefCon installation somewhere. while we all wait for a big, blue, all-powerful, balls-out Dr Samsung to finally bring his godlike presence back from Mars to save the camera world.

[dgvro]

14 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Yes,...if the S1H did have phase detect AF, it WOULD be flawless. Too dangerous and that us why it won't ever have PDAF.

The camera industry has a "pizza pie" of customers. They work together to divide the customer revenue so that each company has a "group" to live off of. Panasonic has its crowd, Sony has its people, Cannot and Fuji and Oly each have their own customers...for carefully calculated reasons.

The Japaneese camera industry is an important one for the country of Japan. Its almost a "national pride" issue. They cherish it and the Japanese companies want each company to succeed or at least survive as a matter of pride and respect for each other. Each company will spar with each other, yes!...but always see that each refuses to deliver a true "knockout" blow to the other. Ot just won't ever happen.

This is why every camera will be crippled in some way to save the Japaneese "brotherhood" from being destroyed.

Everybody is given a bowling lane to operate and survive in. The camera crippling we have all seen in the past 20+ years is no accident. Its mostly designed to preserve the health of the Japaneese camera industry as a whole.

I feel like this may all be utter fallacy and imagined, sorry.
Many successful or innovative leaders in their respective field do not necessarily hold a "piece of pie" mentality when it comes to revenue/fanbase/etc. More often the opposite, they're looking beyond the slices.
Also, maybe neither of us are experts in Japanese culture, but it seems about as likely to me that in so far as these fairly faceless companies even COULD even be neatly personified with those kind of nearly-sentimental characteristics (I think they're much more like machinery than that, myself), they would be just as inclined to NOT ever pull their punches vs one another out of respect or based on their principles or whatever. Success is still success (the pie is still the pie)... dictators were no less pridefully nationalist for their belief that a unified singular leadership or monopoly on power was the best way.

[EduPortas]

4 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

The Japaneese camera industry is an important one for the country of Japan. Its almost a "national pride" issue. They cherish it and the Japanese companies want each company to succeed or at least survive as a matter of pride and respect for each other. Each company will spar with each other, yes!...but always see that each refuses to deliver a true "knockout" blow to the other. Ot just won't ever happen.

This is why every camera will be crippled in some way to save the Japaneese "brotherhood" from being destroyed.

Everybody is given a bowling lane to operate and survive in. The camera crippling we have all seen in the past 20+ years is no accident. Its mostly designed to preserve the health of the Japaneese camera industry as a whole.

 

This is true. Not only cameras. The thought extends to automobiles or department stores, for example. Even sumo wrestling, according to the author of "Freakonomics". Remember that one? There's a "gentlemens pact" that dominates huge companies established centuries ago. These huge interlocking companies have everthing from steel to shipyards to camera groups under one massive umbrella. They call it "keiretsu".

That's one of the reasons Nikon will never "fail". Their parent comnpany is Mitsubishi.

It's a national pride thing, as you mentioned.

[EduPortas]

9 minutes ago, dgvro said:

I feel like this may all be utter fallacy and imagined, sorry.
Many successful or innovative leaders in their respective field do not necessarily hold a "piece of pie" mentality when it comes to revenue/fanbase/etc. More often the opposite, they're looking beyond the slices.
Also, maybe neither of us are experts in Japanese culture, but it seems about as likely to me that in so far as these fairly faceless companies even COULD even be neatly personified with those kind of nearly-sentimental characteristics (I think they're much more like machinery than that, myself), they would be just as inclined to NOT ever pull their punches vs one another out of respect or based on their principles or whatever. Success is still success (the pie is still the pie)... dictators were no less pridefully nationalist for their belief that a unified singular leadership or monopoly on power was the best way.

As ludicrous as it sound to the West, that's the way things are run in Japan since the XIX century, at least.

The collective beats the individual. Not so in the West, where it's exactly the opposite.

[Mandalorian]

Jeez, this is really embarrassing for Canon.

If they wanted to limit the higher end features, they should have just been up front with the software time limits.

But no, they wanted the marketing sheet of the R5 to be that it is an "8K camera" but not for it to actually compete with the 8K cameras that have coming out in the EOS Cinema line soon.

Really slimy.

[dgvro]

4 minutes ago, EduPortas said:

As ludicrous as it sound to the West, that's the way things are run in Japan since the XIX century, at least.

The collective beats the individual. Not so in the West, where it's exactly the opposite.

I guess you may be right. It's a funny place, when you consider in the same breadth the thing of how unforgiving their work culture is to the individual.

That, and all the japanese rules MMA fights I used to see where you can kick people on the ground in the head 😅

[Cliff Totten]

If this R5 firmware is not encrypted carefully and this thing gets "cracked" and becomes virtually limitless? If everything that Cannot has done, every measure they have made to cripple it....is reversed?

This will terrify Cannot management more than any negative press that the R5 can ever have. If the cap comes off the bottle and the genie escapes? The R5 will run wild in places that Cannot desperately does NOT want it to ever be used.

Cannot has a very "specific" intention for the R5 and they have worked soooo hard to keep it inside that box.

It absolutely must stay there. They might make the box a bit larger soon but not by much.

It would not supprise me if Cannot is holding R5 shipments to make sure its firmware can't be hacked before too many units get out. I bet "Magic Lantern" are licking their chops today.

[dgvro]

Just now, Cliff Totten said:

If this R5 firmware is not encrypted carefully and this thing gets "cracked" and becomes virtually limitless? If everything that Cannot has done, every measure they have made to cripple it....is reversed?

This will terrify Cannot management more than any negative press that the R5 can ever have. If the cap comes off and the genie escapes? The R5 will run wild in places that Cannot desperately does NOT want it to ever be used.

Cannot has a very "specific" intention for the R5 and they have worked soooo hard to keep it inside that box.

It absolutely must stay there. They might make the box a bit larger soon but not by much.

Ironically, it might be unauthorised, unofficial 'fixing' of the overheating that does actually spur Canon into a proper recall.

They might then appease people with a slightly less crippled version of the camera. Just enough for there to not be as much appetite to hack the thing.

[Mandalorian]

4 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

If this R5 firmware is not encrypted carefully and this thing gets "cracked" and becomes virtually limitless? If everything that Cannot has done, every measure they have made to cripple it....is reversed?

This will terrify Cannot management more than any negative press that the R5 can ever have. If the cap comes off and the genie escapes? The R5 will run wild in places that Cannot desperately does NOT want it to ever be used.

Cannot has a very "specific" intention for the R5 and they have worked soooo hard to keep it inside that box.

It absolutely must stay there. They might make the box a bit larger soon but not by much.

No doubt Canon will say that modding the firmware/hardware will void your warranty, and they probably will develop ways to make sure to deny repair claims on modded cameras (such as soldering the backup battery on future R5's so that mods can easily be detected).

Realistically, Canon should just have been up front about the time limits instead of inventing this ridiculous overheating issue and expecting people to just buy it.

 

[Cliff Totten]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Sometimes I lose faith in the camera industry completely and think about moving on. Maybe do smartphone camera reviews, now they are at enthusiast level and really quite unique in some regards. But then I realise there is just so much immorality, face saving and arrogance everywhere I look. On the streets, in people's personal lives, in businesses up and down the country, around the world, small and large, that any efforts to correct this or open people's eyes in any small way is basically a teardrop in the sewer.

Andrew....do you know the "Magic Lantern" guys? Do you know how to contact or reach out to them?

I would literally bet my life that they are very interested in this R5 mess. 

If you want to upset Cannot and REALLY ring their bell, get some dialog going with ML and REALLY start a fire here....

If Cannot has not yet encrypted their firmware, could you imagine ML reversing all these cripples in firmware? Maybe It could be just as easy as taking timer values in lines of code and replacing them with high values like "99999" or something of that sort.

Cannot doesnt fear bad R5 press....but they DO absolutely fear somebody circumventing their carefully chosen marketing strategies and tactics!

[Mandalorian]

5 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Andrew....do you know the "Magic Lantern" guys? Do you know how to contact or reach out to them?

I would literally bet my life that they are very interested in this R5 mess. 

If you want to upset Cannot and REALLY ring their bell, get some dialog going with ML and REALLY start a fire here....

If Cannot has not yet encrypted their firmware, could you imagine ML reversing all these cripples in firmware? Maybe It could be just as easy as taking timer values in lines of code and replacing them with high values like "99999" or something of that sort.

Cannot doesnt fear bad R5 press....but they DO absolutely fear somebody circumventing their carefully chosen marketing strategies and tactics!

I think Canon has sent some behind the scenes "cease and desist" letters to Magic Lantern because they haven't released a firmware update since July 2018 and the last camera they had significant software for was the 5DmkIII.

[Cliff Totten]

Is modifying a product that belongs to you illeagle?

How many things that we buy and then make changes to? People modify computers and electronic equipment every day.

Could you imagine if Dell tried to sue you for modifying your laptop hardware? Could you imagine Ford suing you for modifying your engine...etc....etc.

If you own it, it no longer belongs to the campany that made it. Its your thing and you can screw it up all you want.