c100 mkii vs BMPCC (4k or 6k)

[Jeremy Clark]

Hi all, 

Thinking of selling my c100 and moving to the BM 4k or 6k. I don't especially dislike anything about the C100 other than limitations in bitrate, framerate and resolution. As much as anything else, its a desire to more to something a little smaller/more flexible for different types of shoots, as well as getting something a little more future proof and selling the c100 before its value drops too far. 

I mostly do corporate/industry shoots - lots of sitdown interviews (indoor & outdoor) and lots of out in the field run and gun B-roll. Before the C100, I was using a 7d and then 5 mkii, so I'm reasonably used to the DSLR workflow. I also found myself rarely using autofocus as there's too many times I found the C100 focusing on the wrong item (usually because its something small moving in the wind, or its not something I had centered in the frame, etc). 

I'm weighing my loss of easy XLR and ND's, and longer battery/media longevity in the C100 against RAW recording, higher resolutions, and better overall image quality in the BMPCC's. 

 

Overall, what do yall think? And if you do prefer BMPCC, thoughts on 4k vs 6k? I'd be downsampling for sure, but I've seen comparisons and jut thought the 6k was much sharper (and better colors). 

 

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, Jeremy Clark said:

I'm weighing my loss of easy XLR and ND's, and longer battery/media longevity in the C100 against RAW recording, higher resolutions, and better overall image quality in the BMPCC's. 

Overall, what do yall think? 

There's no getting round the fact that the internal battery life is limited as well as unpredictable and so you are already into some sort of external solution for that.

Obviously the ND situation will also need attending to, which will of course be per lens if they have different thread sizes or even if they have the same size you will likely still need it to be per lens if you are doing fast lens swaps.

Or you could use a matte box which as you are already into some sort of rigged solution for the power would be a way to go.

With audio you are down to one XLR channel with phantom but you can use an adapter to utilise the 3.5mm jack input for dynamic or non phantom condensers.

So with all that you are losing the immediacy that you have with the C100 mkII which may not be such a big issue for the sit down interviews but will be for your run and gun stuff.

The bigger elephant in the room though is the screen and having no EVF.

It is next to useless outdoors and if it swivelled then that might mitigate it but it doesn't and this also makes it a pain for lower angle shooting  too.

This means that to work as you are now as a replacement for the C100 mkII then you are going to need to budget financially and form factor wise for some sort of external monitoring solution be that a monitor or EVF.

If you don't mind doing all of that and ending up with it rigged (which you could leave it permanently like that if you wanted of course) then you'll be rewarded with a huge bang for the buck in terms of image quality.

To keep your current way of working with the C100 mkII but get access to BM RAW then I think a used Ursa Mini Pro would be a more seamless transition but, of course, even used its still a considerable amount more than the Pocket cameras.

[Jeremy Clark]

Thanks!! I didn't clarify, a lot of my run and gun is no audio, just throw the cam on the ronin S and get B-roll, so not too worried there. Definitely not doing any documentary type work. Its interviews with wireless lavs, and b-roll overtop VO's almost exclusively. 
 

I also already have a shinobo external monitor w/hood, so not worried there either :). 
 

image quality and better futureproofing is my biggest reason to switch. 

[Coiii]

You will miss the C100, trust me.

The BMPCC4K/6K are goods cameras on paper but they are a totally different story in real life situations.

First, to have a "usable" system you need:

Cage + extra grip: Mandatory. Add a handle at least.

External monitor: Mandatory. Add batteries for that.

Cast or external drives: If you're going serious and also you're planning to use a gimbal, you should go for at least a couple of Cfast. 

Battery/Power solution: Of your choice between at least 8 to 10 batteries or 2 to 3 VMount for a full day. If you use a VMount you need extra rig and plates to mount them on camera. But if you use a Ronin-S you can't use VMount batteries (ok, you "can" but why would you do that to yourself...) Maybe a mix of VMount with some LPE6 will work. Energy will be a pain with this camera.

Lens Adapters: Add a Metabones if you go for the 4K and a good set of NDs or a variable ND for your lenses.

Follow Focus: If you will use a gimbal you will need a follow focus like the Tilta.

Now you have a ideal set for shooting, just like me a few months ago until I decided to sell everything because of how ridiculous everything went from an initial $1200 USD "inexpensive" camera. Money is not the bigger problem of this camera, it's the clunky rigging, the stupid battery system (worst problem of the camera imo) and the overall feeling of "this camera will collapse in any minute from now" when you finished the rig and start shooting (because it's true, a fully rigged BMPCC4K breaths unreliability).

I think that you will be better with a Canon C200 (with RAW, "good" codecs and AF) it maybe wait for the new cinema RF line.

[User]

I do run and gun docs in difficult situations and I love my C100Mk2. The camera helps me get the shots I need... and that is worth more to me that a frankenrig with extra resolution.

I would look at the C200/ C300MkII.

 

[Dustin]

Sounds to me like the pocket 6K should be a good fit for ya. As long as you don’t need AF I can’t see why you would miss the c100 mk ii

[Jeremy Clark]

1 hour ago, User said:

I do run and gun docs in difficult situations and I love my C100Mk2. The camera helps me get the shots I need... and that is worth more to me that a frankenrig with extra resolution.

I would look at the C200/ C300MkII.

 

The thing to keep in mind is my run and gun is silent B-roll - I'm not shooting docs. 90% of the time, I'm either locked down shooting interviews with a full rig, or need my minimal rig to shoot run and gun silent B-roll on a gimbal. C100 is already too big to get full articulation on my Ronin S, even after removing the EVF, so 200/300 are no go. 

I'm very interested in the hopefully/maybe soon to be announced RF cinema line, but I'm sure to get the features I'm looking for, I'd be looking at the $6k+ model. BMPCC is $2k. 

It's a balance of quality, value, adaptability. I also don't do this work full time, its my side hustle, so I use bigger projects to fund new gear, but can't eat all the profits, right? 🙂

[MurtlandPhoto]

I've been wrestling with the idea of selling my C100ii since I've loaded up on too many cameras. I also have a GH5, G9, BMPCC4K, and just bought a BMPCC6K. The issue is that while there is a fair bit of overlap in many of these cameras, none of them have the total package of the C100ii—the ND's, Dual Pixel AF, built-in dual XLR, EVF and flip screen, fantastic low light, incredibly light but still quality codec, dual card slots, battery life for hours, etc. etc. etc.

At the end of the day if you can afford to keep the C100 and still get the BMPCC4K, I think you'll find value in having both. It's still a fantastic camera that especially now has a second wave of prime usage in livestreaming. 

[Jeremy Clark]

31 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

I've been wrestling with the idea of selling my C100ii since I've loaded up on too many cameras. I also have a GH5, G9, BMPCC4K, and just bought a BMPCC6K. The issue is that while there is a fair bit of overlap in many of these cameras, none of them have the total package of the C100ii—the ND's, Dual Pixel AF, built-in dual XLR, EVF and flip screen, fantastic low light, incredibly light but still quality codec, dual card slots, battery life for hours, etc. etc. etc.

At the end of the day if you can afford to keep the C100 and still get the BMPCC4K, I think you'll find value in having both. It's still a fantastic camera that especially now has a second wave of prime usage in livestreaming. 

Yeah, I've been having that same thought. Had a big project some through, so def don't HAVE to get rid of it, more was thinking I don't want to keep it and not use it while its value drops. 

[zerocool22]

Why not just get a pocket 4k or 6k and just keep the c100.

[thebrothersthre3]

A pocket 6k/4k rig isn't that crazy. Sony NPF batteries mounted to a half cage on top do the trick. A monitor is definitely nice but not 100% necessary. Most of the gimbal shots I do I stay the same distance from my subject to avoid focus change. 

A Fuji XT3 or Panasonic S1 are also good options for you. Definitely a jump up in image on both those cams from a C100. 

[IronFilm]

18 hours ago, Jeremy Clark said:

I mostly do corporate/industry shoots - lots of sitdown interviews (indoor & outdoor) and lots of out in the field run and gun B-roll. Before the C100, I was using a 7d and then 5 mkii, so I'm reasonably used to the DSLR workflow. I also found myself rarely using autofocus as there's too many times I found the C100 focusing on the wrong item (usually because its something small moving in the wind, or its not something I had centered in the frame, etc). 

I'm weighing my loss of easy XLR and ND's, and longer battery/media longevity in the C100 against RAW recording, higher resolutions, and better overall image quality in the BMPCC's. 

I'd go for the P4K (the benefits of 6K vs 4K are far outweighed by how much it would have to suck to use EF instead of MFT). 

P4K vs C100 means:
Timecode. 
Easier gimbal usage. 
10bit.
4K.
Mirrorless mount. 
Slow motion. 

The ergonomic downsides won't be a deal breaker because you're either doing sit down interviews (which are controlled settings, the P4K is perfectly great for this) or B Roll (thus if you miss a moment that won't be a deal breaker in the edit, or you could often re-do it). 

Would be different if you said you're a sports shooter, or reality tv cameraman, or war corespondent, etc... then I'd be giving serious pause to consider instead the merits to staying with the C100. 

[Jeremy Clark]

27 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I'd go for the P4K (the benefits of 6K vs 4K are far outweighed by how much it would have to suck to use EF instead of MFT). 

P4K vs C100 means:
Timecode. 
Easier gimbal usage. 
10bit.
4K.
Mirrorless mount. 
Slow motion. 

The ergonomic downsides won't be a deal breaker because you're either doing sit down interviews (which are controlled settings, the P4K is perfectly great for this) or B Roll (thus if you miss a moment that won't be a deal breaker in the edit, or you could often re-do it). 

Would be different if you said you're a sports shooter, or reality tv cameraman, or war corespondent, etc... then I'd be giving serious pause to consider instead the merits to staying with the C100. 

Thats my line of thinking also? 

Why are you saying it would suck to use EF vs MFT? I just bought my sigma 18-35, lol (along with my other canon lenses). If I went 4k, I'd probably get the speedboster with EF mount anyways. I don't have any MFT lenses, and don't want to get crazy with a wide assortment of diff mounts

[BenEricson]

It really depends what you're shooting. For run and gun / quick setup, the C series cameras are hard to beat.

You might want to consider a used C300 Mk2. The prices have really dropped and the images from those cameras are absolutely beautiful and very easy to use like the C100 mk2. You'd feel right at home.

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, Jeremy Clark said:

Why are you saying it would suck to use EF vs MFT?

Because MFT has more flexibility of lens choices. 

[rdouthit]

It’s not “mandatory” to rig out a BMPCC4k. It’s a great camera bare. I shoot with it all the time in run and gun situations. If I want/need all the other stuff, I do have a UMP G2. But by no means is the BMPCC4k “unusable” without a complicated rig.  A pocket full of Canon batteries (not the cheap stuff) gets me through a full day of shooting and it’s a lot more comfortable to keep a pile of batteries in a bag than have to carry the camera with a V-Mount. Also, the display is great in most full sun conditions. Just learn how to use false color and avoid complicated moves (Or maybe the camera isn’t the right choice for that particular shoot - which is fine. Not all cameras are ideal for all situations.)

[Benjamin Hilton]

Have you given the GH5 or 5S a try? I think it would fit into your workflow very well personally, it has for mine for the last several years. Usability is very very nice with minimal rigging or accessories needed. The battery life is very good as well.