BMPCC 4k - speedbooster + EF or native MFT?

[Jeremy Clark]

Hey there, I’m getting a bmpcc 4k, and debating between the .64 speed booster to go with my canon lenses (sigma 18-35, etc) vs a good native MFT lens. Picture quality  is my main concern, but curious to hear other’s thoughts and experiences!

[A_Urquhart]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Clark said:

Hey there, I’m getting a bmpcc 4k, and debating between the .64 speed booster to go with my canon lenses (sigma 18-35, etc) vs a good native MFT lens. Picture quality  is my main concern, but curious to hear other’s thoughts and experiences!

The 18-35 is a fantastic lens! Stick with that and go for a .71x speed booster if you are planning on using APC-C lenses such as the 18-35. 

When I got my P4K I had a job coming up soon after. I couldn't get a Metabones adapter here in time so ended up buying a Viltrox as an interim adapter for the job. That job was a car commercial and we used the P4K as a car mounted B Cam and for gimbal shot's.

The images looked great, I never bothered getting an actual Metabones adaptor, the Viltrox adaptor has not left the camera body and the camera continues to get used as a B-Cam to FX9, Alexa Mini, UMP etc etc.  The Viltrox is about one fifth the price of the Metabones.

If you are going to only use full frame lenses, get the .64x Metabones and if you are going to use super heavy lenses, get the Metabones with the locking EF mount although I have put cine lenses weighing up to  1.6kg on my P4K with no issues. 

If  you want/need a super light and small rig, maybe consider native lenses but i'd recommend trying the lens you already have (18-35) with a Viltrox first. It's a killer combo! A slightly heavier camera is less susceptible to micro shakes when hand held.

[BTM_Pix]

One thing to bear in mind about the Viltrox adapters - unless they have upgraded their firmware recently ? - is that unlike the Metabones ones they don't support electronic focus control on the P4K.

So, touch AF won't work for example and nor will any add on adapters that interface with the camera's focus control functions.

Might not be relevant if you have no intention of using any sort of electronic focus control but worth bearing in mind if you do.

If anyone does know if there have been any firmware updates from Viltrox recently to enable it though then please chime in about which models as I have a vested interest in knowing which ones they are !

 

[A_Urquhart]

37 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

One thing to bear in mind about the Viltrox adapters - unless they have upgraded their firmware recently ? - is that unlike the Metabones ones they don't support electronic focus control on the P4K.

So, touch AF won't work for example and nor will any add on adapters that interface with the camera's focus control functions.

Might not be relevant if you have no intention of using any sort of electronic focus control but worth bearing in mind if you do.

If anyone does know if there have been any firmware updates from Viltrox recently to enable it though then please chime in about which models as I have a vested interest in knowing which ones they are !

 

This is true although I have never needed to use touch AF. 

[A_Urquhart]

It would seem Viltrox have released a firmware update just a few days ago specifically for P4K!

 

http://www.viltrox.com/en/index.php?m=index&a=show&cid=149&id=298

 

Unfortunately my camera is hired out for the next week so I won't be able to test for a while.

[BTM_Pix]

17 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

It would seem Viltrox have released a firmware update just a few days ago specifically for P4K!

 

http://www.viltrox.com/en/index.php?m=index&a=show&cid=149&id=298

 

Unfortunately my camera is hired out for the next week so I won't be able to test for a while.

I think that is just to address BM's v6.9.5 firmware killing the general compatibility with Viltrox rather than adding the focus stuff.

V6.9.5 was a bit of a nightmare as it also killed Bluetooth operation of the cameras but BM have now released v6.9.6 yesterday to resolve it so maybe Viltrox will now have to patch their fix to back to what it was !

Be good if you or anyone else who has one could have a quick test of it though as I get a lot of enquries about what adapter to get for my focus controllers so it would be good to offer a lower cost option than the Metabones.

[A_Urquhart]

11 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think that is just to address BM's v6.9.5 firmware killing the general compatibility with Viltrox rather than adding the focus stuff.

 

Yeah, I assume the same....I'll test it when I get my camera back. I haven't done the latest v6.9.5 camera update either so will do both.

[kye]

I had the Sigma 18-35 and I found it too heavy for how I work, so I ended up with separate Voitglander MFT primes, which were significantly lighter and also significantly faster.

Of course, being primes they don't zoom...

[Kisaha]

Using native lenses is always very convinient.

I have an Olympus 12-100mm for my smallest and lightest set ups as a do it all zoom and some adapters (2 Viltrox, Aputure) for EF lenses (mostly primes, to be honest, as the Olympus negates the need to adapt a zoom EF most of the times), so I have 3 different focal lengths with the same lens.

I was planning originally to buy the new special Pocket Metabones adapter, maybe I will, as it is the most specialized for the Pocket camera. Maybe you should go with this one if you do have the budget, it is supposedly much better than anything else.

The dead cheap NON speedboosted Viltrox is a must have also as it just doubles the focal length, so the 18-35 trasforms to a 36-70mm, or a 50mm to an 100mm, e.t.c

Depending the project you can choose accordingly, and that is the magic with the P4K camera.

[A_Urquhart]

9 hours ago, kye said:

I had the Sigma 18-35 and I found it too heavy for how I work, so I ended up with separate Voitglander MFT primes, which were significantly lighter and also significantly faster.

Of course, being primes they don't zoom...

I wouldn't say the Voigtlander primes are "significantly faster" than the speed boosted Sigma 18-35 1.8 (as it becomes a 1.2 with speed booster in terms of light gathering).... but yes, still faster.

If I was going for native lenses, I would definitely go Voigtlander or SLR Magic Hyper Primes. I owned a GH3 a while back and had the 12-35 2.8 and the 35-100 2.8 and while the images were kinda nice (if not a little boring) I found I hated their focus barrel's fly by wire. Felt very disconnected from what was going on. It was workable, I just didn't like the experience. Maybe the Olympus are better but I've never tried them.

[kye]

18 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

I wouldn't say the Voigtlander primes are "significantly faster" than the speed boosted Sigma 18-35 1.8 (as it becomes a 1.2 with speed booster in terms of light gathering).... but yes, still faster.

If I was going for native lenses, I would definitely go Voigtlander or SLR Magic Hyper Primes. I owned a GH3 a while back and had the 12-35 2.8 and the 35-100 2.8 and while the images were kinda nice (if not a little boring) I found I hated their focus barrel's fly by wire. Felt very disconnected from what was going on. It was workable, I just didn't like the experience. Maybe the Olympus are better but I've never tried them.

Yeah, if you're using the SB then the speed difference is less.  Of course, that makes the setup even heavier over a dumb adapter.  

I hand-hold and carry the camera around in one hand all day, even when i'm not using it, as a shot may present itself at any moment.  For that reason the weight in my backpack is completely different to the weight on my wrist.  A big travel day can break the 20,000 steps mark, and I think in Pompeii we went higher than that even.  If you're on sticks or even a rig then weight is less of an issue.

In terms of focusing, once you go fully manual, you don't go back.

I vaguely remember something about a focus clutch that could be manual or disengaged for AF?  Apparently it was great, but can't remember who manufactured them.  Might be something to look into.

[BTM_Pix]

6 minutes ago, kye said:

 

I vaguely remember something about a focus clutch that could be manual or disengaged for AF?  Apparently it was great, but can't remember who manufactured them.  Might be something to look into.

Olympus pro range of MFT lenses have it and some of the premium ones such as the 12mm f2.0 and 17mm f1.8.

[Kisaha]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Olympus pro range of MFT lenses have it and some of the premium ones such as the 12mm f2.0 and 17mm f1.8.

12-100mm, too.

[Video Hummus]

I like having the ability to use AF-S to quickly snap focus to something so for native I prefer the Olympus 1.2 primes. Also, the Voigtländer’ s do have a lot of purple and green fringing on highlights at 0.95. To each their own.

 

[noone]

All focal reducers are doing is changing the lenses so I would go native IF the same focal length and aperture was available or if price made a difference (and you are only using one system).

If the speedboosted lens is faster than native or the focal length/speed you want is not available or you use multiple systems, then focal reducers make a lot of sense.      Of course another advantage of using adapted EF lenses is you can ALSO use non focal reducer smart adapters and get double duty from the same lens.

Your 18-35 is good enough to go with a focal reducer for a start (you can always add native too and can find bargains for M43 if you are patient).

 

[Jeremy Clark]

1 hour ago, noone said:

All focal reducers are doing is changing the lenses so I would go native IF the same focal length and aperture was available or if price made a difference (and you are only using one system).

If the speedboosted lens is faster than native or the focal length/speed you want is not available or you use multiple systems, then focal reducers make a lot of sense.      Of course another advantage of using adapted EF lenses is you can ALSO use non focal reducer smart adapters and get double duty from the same lens.

Your 18-35 is good enough to go with a focal reducer for a start (you can always add native too and can find bargains for M43 if you are patient).

 

Thanks!! Thats what I've done - I swapped the .64 for the .71 because I did pay enough attention when ordering, but also went ahead and ordered a dumb adapter to see what I think of that instead. I know I'll get less light, but will I lose quality by only getting part of what the lens is seeing? 

[Anaconda_]

8 hours ago, Jeremy Clark said:

I know I'll get less light, but will I lose quality by only getting part of what the lens is seeing? 

If anything you'll gain quality as there isn't any extra glass between the lens and the sensor. 

[A_Urquhart]

10 hours ago, Jeremy Clark said:

Thanks!! Thats what I've done - I swapped the .64 for the .71 because I did pay enough attention when ordering, but also went ahead and ordered a dumb adapter to see what I think of that instead. I know I'll get less light, but will I lose quality by only getting part of what the lens is seeing? 

Generally, the quality of a lens is better in the centre and usually gets softer toward the edges. Using a straight through adaptor with no glass means you are using more of the centre of the lens which, in theory, is a good thing.

Saying that, Metabones claim that using a speed booster actually increases sharpness and clarity but i doubt you will see any difference in reality.

I really wouldn't worry about the image quality. The 18-35 1.8 is a fantastic lens with or without the speed booster. Having the two adaptors is kinda like having two lenses. 

 

 

[kye]

19 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I like having the ability to use AF-S to quickly snap focus to something so for native I prefer the Olympus 1.2 primes. Also, the Voigtländer’ s do have a lot of purple and green fringing on highlights at 0.95. To each their own.

 

I love it when people criticise the Voigtlander lenses for being soft wide open.

You know what every other MFT lens looks like at 0.95?

This.

 

[noone]

8 hours ago, kye said:

I love it when people criticise the Voigtlander lenses for being soft wide open.

You know what every other MFT lens looks like at 0.95?

This.

 

 

To be fair Kye, the cheaper Zhongyi Mitakon f0.95 lenses for M43 are not THAT bad and neither is the Kipon Handevision  40mm 0.85 (though that is expensive)   The Kaxinda (never heard of it before and it may just be one of the others rebadged) 25mm 0.95 is an unknown quality to me, 

The SLR Magic 25 0.95 is probably the Mitakon altered slightly.

I do think the voigtlanders are nice though!