is lensbaby naff?

[gethin]

I love playing with charactful lenses, but can't decide if that lensbaby look has passed it's sell by date 😄

Its on sale in aus.  🤔

[MrSMW]

Yes.

So are fish eye lenses.

😝

[Oliver Daniel]

5 hours ago, gethin said:

I love playing with charactful lenses, but can't decide if that lensbaby look has passed it's sell by date 😄

Its on sale in aus.  🤔

No, Lensbaby’s are not naff. The problem is too many people don’t understand their purpose. 

They are all about isolating the subject in different ways. They have a steep learning curve, but for the right use cases, the results can be spectacular. And no, you can’t replicate what they do in post. 

My favourite ones are the Sweet 35 and Sweet 50, plus the Sol45. I also love the Omni Filter Kit, which again, so many people dismiss as an Instagram gimmick, but when you actually use it, you realise it’s not. It’s very clever actually. 

These are not the type of lenses you keep on your body and do an entire shoot with. I use them for specific shots where the aesthetic will contribute to the story. 

I would try before you but too, they aren’t for everyone. 

For actual character lenses, check out Iron Glass Adapters or search for modified Helios 44-2 on eBay. The Mir 1B 37mm. Trioplan 100m. Vivitar 28mm. Helios 85mm. 

There’s also lenses from Lomography and new ones from Dulens. 

[kye]

15 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

No, Lensbaby’s are not naff. The problem is too many people don’t understand their purpose. 

They are all about isolating the subject in different ways. They have a steep learning curve, but for the right use cases, the results can be spectacular. And no, you can’t replicate what they do in post. 

My favourite ones are the Sweet 35 and Sweet 50, plus the Sol45. I also love the Omni Filter Kit, which again, so many people dismiss as an Instagram gimmick, but when you actually use it, you realise it’s not. It’s very clever actually. 

These are not the type of lenses you keep on your body and do an entire shoot with. I use them for specific shots where the aesthetic will contribute to the story. 

I would try before you but too, they aren’t for everyone. 

For actual character lenses, check out Iron Glass Adapters or search for modified Helios 44-2 on eBay. The Mir 1B 37mm. Trioplan 100m. Vivitar 28mm. Helios 85mm. 

There’s also lenses from Lomography and new ones from Dulens. 

Good post.

How would you say that lens baby products differ from a normal tilt/shift lens?  My impression was the lens baby look had character on top of the t/s properties, but I'm curious to know what your impressions are.

I've never really used either, but I understand how a t/s lens works and I've seen a bunch of lens baby images.

[noone]

No, not naff* but would I buy one?   Nah.     Just another different type of lens and there are so many others i would get before I got one of those (though I am almost done with my kit now and it will be just replacements from time to time).

 

* The lenses are not naff, but the name maybe is and that probably puts me off more than anything.

[Oliver Daniel]

10 hours ago, kye said:

Good post.

How would you say that lens baby products differ from a normal tilt/shift lens?  My impression was the lens baby look had character on top of the t/s properties, but I'm curious to know what your impressions are.

I've never really used either, but I understand how a t/s lens works and I've seen a bunch of lens baby images.

Yes, Lensbaby’s add character into the lenses that you can modify to your taste.

For instance, the Twist 60 has a petzval effect and the Sweet 50 has a dramatic “sweet spot” effect. You can’t do this with a normal tilt shift lens. 

Also they do standalone lenses. The Sol45 gives a stunning warped bokeh effect, the Burnside 35 a wide angle swirl effect. The Velvet range, a soft focus dreamy effect. 

I love the Omni filter kit. I initially dismissed that system from the online samples but after using it, it can help you produce incredibly abstract and ethereal images. 

These are not lenses for anything moving fast. The focus can be so unbelievably shallow at the most extreme usage case. It takes a very delicate approach. Also I wouldn’t shoot in a softer recording option such as line skipped 1080p 200fps. 

I’ve only been using them the last few months, and recently on some pro shoots. The image and character certainly turns heads and gets people asking excitable questions. 

I sound like a Lensbaby ambassador haha. I am not. These would be terrible lenses for some people. They are not for everyone. But they are certainly not naff. For the right purpose, they are absolutely excellent. 

[noone]

Tilt shift and lensbaby are chalk and cheese really.

I suppose I could get some lensbaby effects with filter glass in the adapter I use with my Canon 17 (I have only used a IR filter really  but a sand spot filter might work).

Longer TS lenses would/could be more lensbabyish I think as it is the tilt function rather than shift and on my 17, tilt while it does work, is pretty subtle, the 17 at least is a lens for shifting and a LONG way from a lensbaby.

The 24mm TS-E I had would be more like it but a 90mm or longer would be closer. 

[noone]

Kye, does your camera have a miniature effect setting?    If so have you tried it? 

They actually do work pretty good in my experience (at least for photos).

My A7s has it but only for jpeg photos.   It works BETTER for tilt than my 17 TS-E does really.

I have used it WITH the TS lens for fun.

Not something i would use a lot but tried with different lenses can give a different look.

This is the Sony Zeiss 55 1.8 (at f2) using miniature effect vertical middle (where the lens is) this is a very sharp lens but you could put filters on or use crappy lenses or whatever you want. 

Doing this for this post has me wanting to go try it more with various lenses.

I just wish it worked for video.

[gethin]

18 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

For actual character lenses, check out Iron Glass Adapters or search for modified Helios 44-2 on eBay. The Mir 1B 37mm. Trioplan 100m. Vivitar 28mm. Helios 85mm. 

 

I've got the nikkor 50mm f1.2, this has a bendy field curvature and slightly swirly bokeh.  I've also got a helios 50, but I prefer the nikkor.   I'll google those others, thanks 🙂

So the sweet 35 with the composer pro is on sale for $350 AUD - about $100 off. (About $260 usd).  $100AUD more for the edge 35 (which is a bummer because that would be my preferred one of the 2).  Its tempting, especially as the cheapest z tilt shift adaptor I can find is $250

 

 

 

[gethin]

*Hellios 44-2. Virtuallu no swirly bokeh though, so I guess its a new variant.  After googling for an hour or so I now want a helios 40 😄

 

[Grimor]

1 hour ago, gethin said:

*Hellios 44-2. Virtuallu no swirly bokeh though, so I guess its a new variant.  After googling for an hour or so I now want a helios 40 😄

 

For Helios 44-2 just flip rear element (rear glass inverted) and you get a heavy instant swirly bokeh!! 

[bjohn]

The swirly bokeh only appears in certain situations and more reliably on full-frame sensors than smaller ones. I've gotten it with APS-C cameras but never on my Super-16-size cameras (it's a remarkably sharp lens on those cameras with gorgeous color rendering). Even on my full-frame camera the conditions have to be right for it to appear (typically you want it to be wide open with a nearby subject in close focus and a busy out-of-focus background).

As for Lensbaby, I think you can achieve some of that stuff in post (especially the lenses with selective blur), but I like the look of the velvet line and might get one of those. You can achieve some of that same "velvet" look with older lenses like the Minolta Rokkor 85mm 1.7, which has the same character: low-contrast and flattering for portraits wide open, super-sharp stopped down. I had one for a while (it had a bad case of fungus so I only used it a short time) and took some amazing portraits with it, a look unlike any modern lens.

[Oliver Daniel]

1 hour ago, bjohn said:

 

As for Lensbaby, I think you can achieve some of that stuff in post (especially the lenses with selective blur)

That's a bit like saying you can replicate a 16 blade helios 44-2 bokeh and it's lens flares in post. It's just not the same, not by a long shot. 

For most people who are not crazy absolute genius masters in post effects, I don't believe this is true at all. At least, from the quality and character of the effect achieved. With Lensbaby you will get far better results and save yourself many hours and headaches trying to replicate it believably. Same goes for any lens effect like prisms.

The same is true of the Omni filter kit. Yes you can do  plenty of light effects in post, but what naysayers don't realise is that the filter kit reacts to the actual light in the scene, which you just can't honestly replicate in post e.g a room full of neon signs reflecting on the filters and creating unique refractions. 

[bjohn]

42 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

That's a bit like saying you can replicate a 16 blade helios 44-2 bokeh and it's lens flares in post. It's just not the same, not by a long shot. 

It really depends on which of the many Lensbaby effects you're talking about. I agree that duplicating the "Sweet" lens line look in post would be difficult (or at least a lot of work and not as convincing). But the "Edge" look is not so hard to duplicate in post; Resolve and probably most of the other NLEs have tools that allow you to selectively blur as much or as little of the image as you like, leaving other parts untouched and sharp.

[Oliver Daniel]

1 hour ago, bjohn said:

It really depends on which of the many Lensbaby effects you're talking about. I agree that duplicating the "Sweet" lens line look in post would be difficult (or at least a lot of work and not as convincing). But the "Edge" look is not so hard to duplicate in post; Resolve and probably most of the other NLEs have tools that allow you to selectively blur as much or as little of the image as you like, leaving other parts untouched and sharp.

I don’t use the Edge as I find that less appealing and useful. I feel that this could be the most easily replicated, yet it’s still better to plan it on a shoot. 

You mentioned the Velvet and I’ve got that in 85. It’s a a love it or hate it. I’m not overly keen on the wide open dreamy effect, but 2.8 looks lovely. Very paint like bokeh. F4 is sharp and good for all purpose. 

[bjohn]

8 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

You mentioned the Velvet and I’ve got that in 85. 

That's the one I was looking at...I'm just not convinced it would give me anything I couldn't get from the Minolta Rokkor 85/1.7 which has similar qualities: low-contrast and dreamy wide open, very sharp stopped down. Most of the Rokkors are like that, and have amazing bokeh and painterly colors, but they have poor flare resistance.

The other Lensbaby I would consider using is the "Sweet" and also the Omni filters; the filters in particular could be useful.

The Edge really doesn't seem much different from blur effects you can achieve in post, and the post-effects are adjustable in height, width, falloff/softness, etc; of course if you use the Edge you don't have to bother with keyframing. But I think that lens is probably going to be more appealing to stills photographers.

[Oliver Daniel]

30 minutes ago, bjohn said:

That's the one I was looking at...I'm just not convinced it would give me anything I couldn't get from the Minolta Rokkor 85/1.7 which has similar qualities: low-contrast and dreamy wide open, very sharp stopped down. Most of the Rokkors are like that, and have amazing bokeh and painterly colors, but they have poor flare resistance.

The other Lensbaby I would consider using is the "Sweet" and also the Omni filters; the filters in particular could be useful.

The Edge really doesn't seem much different from blur effects you can achieve in post, and the post-effects are adjustable in height, width, falloff/softness, etc; of course if you use the Edge you don't have to bother with keyframing. But I think that lens is probably going to be more appealing to stills photographers.

I’ve never tried the Rokkor’s, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. I’m a sucker for imperfect vintage lenses, it’s like a crack addiction.

Im with you on the Edge, not too bothered  about that lens. I don’t find that effect useful. 

Check out the Sol45, that thing is nuts. Got some work to share soon using that and other Lensbaby’s. . 

 

[bjohn]

33 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I’ve never tried the Rokkor’s, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. I’m a sucker for imperfect vintage lenses, it’s like a crack addiction.

I think you'd like them.

I shot this with the 55/1.7 Rokkor, wide open, with a Hollywood Black Magic diffusion filter to add even more glow to the highlights:

Inuit carving by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

And this was with the same lens, also wide open, at minimum focal distance:

Backyard Art: Chardon et bourdon by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

The 28mm is a little soft and has a very painterly quality to it:

Hydro station and clouds by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

I haven't used them for video yet as my cinema cameras are all Super 16-size sensors (Blackmagic Micro Cinemas and original Pockets) so they all become telephoto lenses. There aren't really any good speedbooster options that I'm aware of.

[Grimor]

Helios with rear element inverted

[Oliver Daniel]

1 hour ago, bjohn said:

I think you'd like them.

I shot this with the 55/1.7 Rokkor, wide open, with a Hollywood Black Magic diffusion filter to add even more glow to the highlights:

Inuit carving by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

And this was with the same lens, also wide open, at minimum focal distance:

Backyard Art: Chardon et bourdon by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

The 28mm is a little soft and has a very painterly quality to it:

Hydro station and clouds by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

I haven't used them for video yet as my cinema cameras are all Super 16-size sensors (Blackmagic Micro Cinemas and original Pockets) so they all become telephoto lenses. There aren't really any good speedbooster options that I'm aware of.

Thanks for sharing these. Seem right up my street!