Hack GH2? sure what setting shall i use...

[alter]

Ok before starting i must say either i am a noob or patch settings have gone crazy.

3 months ago i started reading all about the gh2, ptools and patches, now that i bought the gh2 i go back only find there are over 100 patches with weird specs that i don't fully understand, and i believe not many do.

What the hell is going on? I mean many patches don't even mention anything about stability or recommended cards, it is just a big pile of patches creating confusion.

I started with the Orion v4 which seemed perfect, i could preview vids, extele compatible, 80% speed on 1080(9 sec)
very good job i must say. I have the sandisk 95mbps 32gb and after a week i wanted to find if there are better patches since so many are out,
      (my camera did get a tad warm when i did a timelapse on 300% speed creating two files, one was ~4gb)
so i try the unified 88 and i cant record, i got something like "recording stopped due to memory speed".

So back to Orion.. along with explaining my experience i think that patches should be organized at this point and not just keep em coming.

[Axel]

[quote author=alter link=topic=534.msg3495#msg3495 date=1333719754]What the hell is going on? I mean many patches don't even mention anything about stability or recommended cards, it is just a big pile of patches creating confusion.[/quote]

Freedom. Everybody has the right to create patches with fancy names and release them. Typical GH2 sport.

[quote author=alter link=topic=534.msg3495#msg3495 date=1333719754]So back to Orion.. along with explaining my experience i think that patches should be organized at this point and not just keep em coming.[/quote]

Make a start. Forbid uncontrolled announces of new hacks. Test them all, with every card, with both firmwares, with every routine people keep (i.e. erasing only files, but never formatting cards). Then publish the results in a daily update.

Instead of testing the next best superpatch, let us reconsider why we hack at all. For picture quality.

A year ago, in the german slashcam-site, there was a [url=http://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Kurztest/Atomos-Ninja.html][color=red]test[/color][/url] of the Atomos Ninja connected to the GH2 via HDMI. The HDMI outputs the signal before any compression (which by the way is the only process that can be influenced by our hacks) is performed. Not compressed doesn't mean that it is not pre-processed in any way. For example, it is already colour-filtered as 4:2:0, and so forth.

They recorded parallelly to the card in 24H AVCHD and to the Ninja as ProResHQ. ProResHQ (Full HD 24fps need 147 mbps) is a codec with light compression, but in the respect that's important here, it is "visually lossless", like "Uncompressed" (which would mean ~1500 mbps).

This is a frame from the footage they recorded:
[img]http://images2.slashcam.de/texte/957-Bildauswahl-Bildauswahl.jpg[/img]

The red rectangle from this frame was enlarged to 400%. Here are the two cut-outs:
[img]http://images5.slashcam.de/texte/957-400_2-400_2.jpg[/img]
AVCHD

[img]http://images5.slashcam.de/texte/957-400_1-400_1.jpg[/img]
ProResHQ

Don't look too close. Compare them from a little distance. The first image was processed by taking 24 subsequent phases of the uncompressed video and simplifying them, before the data for this frame was written to the card.

I do see a difference. You don't really see any more details, but you get the [i]impression[/i] of a very subtly clearer image. This is a proof that compression can do a little harm.

But it is also a proof that the difference between compressed and uncompressed is not big at all. You have to scale the image. You have to take a [u]still[/u], because with moving images, the said impression becomes very vague.

You tested Orion, you found it good. Don't test any more. Because what you believe you see as difference hardly is more than unsuppressed fine noise that makes the image look more organic. Even with a hypothetical [i]Vitaly_on_crack[/i]-patch with 300 mbps would there be no more real detail than you have already.

[alter]

[quote] Even with a hypothetical [i]Vitaly_on_crack[/i]-patch with 300 mbps[/quote]
:D

Stupid thread i made cause i was angry, i get a headache every time i read on Driftwoods patches, and couldn't write one on PV...

I just dont understand now with Orion what setting are what in the camera... is 24p cinema untouched and High bitrate is the hacked, then what bitrate is on the manual movie mode?...

i should have stayed on pannys 1.1 for a while and then use the hack.

now i have no idea what i'm doing !

[Axel]

You take manual movie mode only to select 720p, or otherwise it means 1080i. However high the bitrate goes with i, it stays interlaced. Don't.

You can choose 24H and/or HBR [u]only[/u] in the creative motion picture mode (mode dial), but you should customize the mode, as Andrew recommends in his book. Make C1 24p with your favorite filmmode (that is colour settings), WB, framerate and so on. Copy 720p 50/60 (via manual movie mode) to C2. You could copy HBR to C3, or you use this for still images (i.e. Raw 3:2, serial speed fast, fn-keys assigned differently). There are several flavours of Orion, but probably they all affect 1080 as well as 720.

[alter]

That was kinda helpfull, thx. Glad to see that these forums aren't full of snob dslr monkeys.

Most replies on noob questions make me wanna kill the replier whit a tele lens. Well I only got to say that the way personal view forum structure is more noobish questions r coming, the forum is like a tangled 4d maze.

[weltenbummler]

[quote author=Axel link=topic=534.msg3499#msg3499 date=1333726024]
You take manual movie mode only to select 720p, or otherwise it means 1080i. However high the bitrate goes with i, it stays interlaced. Don't.

You can choose 24H and/or HBR [u]only[/u] in the creative motion picture mode (mode dial), but you should customize the mode, as Andrew recommends in his book. Make C1 24p with your favorite filmmode (that is colour settings), WB, framerate and so on. Copy 720p 50/60 (via manual movie mode) to C2. You could copy HBR to C3, or you use this for still images (i.e. Raw 3:2, serial speed fast, fn-keys assigned differently). There are several flavours of Orion, but probably they all affect 1080 as well as 720.
[/quote]

Dear Axel,
thanks for the information. But still I do have some trouble.
First of all, I've used the Vanilla patch for my GH2 - yeah, bought one finally  :D Basically I followed the steps as on Andrews website enrolled. It worked flawlessly. Everything is done. But.... (there must be a but somewhere)

A) 24p with 44mbit
What exactly is the setting for that.
I've understood, that I need to choose on the wheel CREATIVE MOVIEMODE and then the first Menu (camerasymbol followed by an "M"). Here I now have 4 symbols:
Manual Videomode - HBR - 24p Cinema - variable Videomodus

What's behind those?

B) How to copy to FN1 or 2 etc
When I go to the settings for FNx, there is only one option which is close to Moviemode called "movie mode".
Do I get it right, that I only can use the 24p Modus by choosgin the CREATIVE MOVIEMODE on the wheel?
Your postings seems to say, it is possible to copy that on Fn1. I've bought the Manual from Andrew as well, but where does he explain how to copy and which settings?

A lot of questions. Hope to find some answers.
thanks

[Axel]

[quote author=weltenbummler link=topic=534.msg3607#msg3607 date=1333987309]
Manual Videomode - HBR - 24p Cinema - variable Videomodus

What's behind those?[/quote]

The first one chosen lets you go down one step in the menu bar (icon filmcamera without "M") "video". There you can choose between 1080i (don't), AVCHD 720p (this) or Motion Jpeg (no idea). You can further select everything else, if you like P, A, S or M. Take this as an example, not as my recommendation: You might wish to have a fail-safe-mode for dark, difficult situations. You want it to be 720p, because you want the higher framerate for whatever reason*. Then you might choose "P" (I don't know what this stands for right now, but it means autoexposure). In dark places, the shutter won't go much over 1/50. But the automatic doesn't know that the place is [i]supposed[/i] to be dark, that there are black shadows, as in most dark places are. The Iso should'nt raise too much. So to correct the automatic you click on the wheel to highlight the "-0+" in the viewer (exposure shift) and set it to, say, minus one point five (stops). You choose nostalgic film mode, because in dark places you should [i]always[/i] use nostalgic (dialed down as recommended in Andrews book). You perform the WB-Shift (Andrews book). You assign the fn-functions. You choose the Tungsten symbol for WB.

EDIT:
*... for whatever reason ... If you feel you can't already judge exposure, 720p with the higher framerates is indeed easier to use with automatic exposure, since the side effects of inappropriate shutter times don't look so weird. But as I said, it's only an example.

And after you've done all this, you enter the menu, go down to the individual menu (icon: C and a screw wrench) and take the first point "save custom settings" and choose "C3".

Now the next time you are in the nightclub, you dial "C3" on the mode dial, you have 720p auto exposure (corrected down), nostalgic a.s.f. and you are ready to shoot.

You can nevertheless change everything during the shoot. If you go back to manual exposure (fastest way is with the Quick-button), then the exposure shift is deactivated, as well as auto-Iso. The filmmodes (and other things) can be assigned to the fn-buttons.

If you don't have to intercut your footage with Pal-camera-stuff, I recommend you forget the HBR mode and use only 24P Cinema for 1080.

[Simco123]

All these GH2 hacks does it improve on 2x tele mode?

[weltenbummler]

Dear Axel,

it still is confusing:

MENU
There are two options for Camera/Video: CREATIVE MOVIE (with "M") and MOTION PICTURE( without "M").

CREATIVE MOVIE (with "M") offers: Man. Video mode - HBR (high bitrate) - CINEMA (24p) - Variable Video mode
=> Andrew does not recommend the last one.

[b]First question:[/b]
What s the setting for the 44mbit: HBR or CINEMA? if both, what s the difference?

[b]Second question:[/b]
Man.Video mode: it seems this is the choice for 720/60p settings. But how do I know?

Third question:
MOTION PICTURE( without "M") offers: Film mode - Rec Mode - ....
Here in Rec Mode one can find AVCHD (1080i) - AVCHD (720p) - Motion Jpeg
I assume, that this has to be set to AHCHD (720p) to set it for  "manual movie mode" in CREATIVE MOVIE, right?

Thanks for the tip with C1 to C3 :)

[Axel]

[quote author=weltenbummler link=topic=534.msg4563#msg4563 date=1335177433]

MENU
There are two options for Camera/Video: CREATIVE MOVIE (with "M") and MOTION PICTURE( without "M").

CREATIVE MOVIE (with "M") offers: Man. Video mode - HBR (high bitrate) - CINEMA (24p) - Variable Video mode
=> Andrew does not recommend the last one.

[b]First question:[/b]
What s the setting for the 44mbit: HBR or CINEMA? if both, what s the difference?[/quote]

HBR = High Bit Rate 25fps, disguised as 25i (compatibility for BDs or no idea), a laugh for serious hackers, but reliably up to 24 mbps

Cinema: 24fps (actually 23,9 something, but don't worry), distinguished in the menu "video" between "24L" for "Low", meaning inferior, meaning [b]l[/b]ess than 17 mbps, and 24H for [b]H[/b]igh, 24 mbps or whatever he current hack forces the camera to do.

[quote author=weltenbummler link=topic=534.msg4563#msg4563 date=1335177433][b]Second question:[/b]
Man.Video mode: it seems this is the choice for 720/60p settings. But how do I know?[/quote]

Know what? 60p is NTSC framerate. It's a general menu setting, where you choose between 50p (Pal) or 60p (NTSC). Only possible when hacked. Restriction: On one SD-card can only be either Pal-Video or NTSC, never both.

[quote author=weltenbummler link=topic=534.msg4563#msg4563 date=1335177433]Third question:
MOTION PICTURE( without "M") offers: Film mode - Rec Mode - ....
Here in Rec Mode one can find AVCHD (1080i) - AVCHD (720p) - Motion Jpeg
I assume, that this has to be set to AHCHD (720p) to set it for  "manual movie mode" in CREATIVE MOVIE, right?[/quote]

All that creativity, manuality and motion confuses me as well, but I think you got it right. I lent my GH2 to a friend, and can't check things now. I won't ruin my day by looking in the Lumix manual, I hope you understand  ;)

[weltenbummler]

Dear Axel,

thanks for this reply. I've added a screenshot from my FCP X info canvas, and to my surprise the camera only records with 24mbit  :(

I have hacked the GH2 - because I can see 4 choices under M Creative Mode in the Menu. But apparently the Cinema 24p Mode with 24H in Videomode only records 24mbit.

Any ideas?

[Axel]

I don't know, I think this may not be the bitrate. Use the free [i]Videospec[/i] (Google), which also has the useful [i]Bitrate-Pro[/i] calculator on board. There you see, that vanilla seldom goes over 22-28 mbps, one might think the hack was not successful. But without hack the actual bitrate stays mostly below 20 mbps. It's called Vanilla because it's not Chili.