Geoff CB Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 3 hours ago, currensheldon said: Just adding 120fps in 4k on the S1H would put it right back at the top of the heap specs-wise. It would have 6k ProRes Raw over the A7sIII and tons more usability over it and the R5 (with better XLR adapter than Sony, timecode, zero overheating, etc). Plus, 6k ProRes Raw is wayyyyyyyy easier to work with than the R5's 8k raw and the IQ difference is probably negligible. No real need for Panasonic to put out another mirrorless body - something like the C70, with internal NDs, more cinema style body, integrated XLRs, etc on the other hand would be AWESOME. The S1H specs (full frame, 6k, dual ISO, IBIS, timecode) with the C70-like cine style layout + internal raw and 120fps would be amazing. Again, probably more likely in an EVA-2 (minus the IBIS) and will be bigger than C70, but would still be great to have. That would be great if the S1H sensor could do that. The sensor itself is limited to 60 fps 4K in the Super 35mm crop. You would need a entirely new sensor to do 4K 120p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Geoff CB said: That would be great if the S1H sensor could do that. The sensor itself is limited to 60 fps 4K in the Super 35mm crop. You would need a entirely new sensor to do 4K 120p. I was under the impression the Zcam sensor is the same as the one used in the S1H or at least very similar. Still begs the question why did they choose that sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmizer Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 9 hours ago, Geoff CB said: That would be great if the S1H sensor could do that. The sensor itself is limited to 60 fps 4K in the Super 35mm crop. You would need a entirely new sensor to do 4K 120p. However Panasonic has all the industrial technical ability to make any sensor it wants ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff CB Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Just now, maxmizer said: However Panasonic has all the industrial technical ability to make any sensor it wants ... Yes that is true, I was only commenting on currentsheldon's idea that they could just give a upgrade to the S1H for 120p in 4K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmizer Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Geoff CB said: Sì, è vero, stavo solo commentando l'idea di currentheldon che potevano semplicemente dare un aggiornamento all'S1H per 120p in 4K. Yes it was certainly not a personal criticism, we are friends of the forum. I specified that if they wanted ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 On 10/26/2020 at 1:57 PM, TomTheDP said: Because the A7s3 does 5x the frame rate. They are now going to release an S1V probably at the same price point as the S1H. I mean at this point Panasonic is just riding Sony’s coat tails as they get all their sensors from them. Many many things matter more to most people than max frame rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 6 hours ago, IronFilm said: Many many things matter more to most people than max frame rates. I rarely use high speed but other than the S1H even the 24p is kind of subpar. 150mbps is weak. Would be nice if they’d give a 300mbps option in longgop or Prores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currensheldon Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 Well, Canon and Sony's lineups are pretty solid and set for the next 2-4 years. Canon: C500 II/C300 III, C70, and R5/R6. Only thing missing is the full-frame C90, rumored for 2021. Sony: FX9, FX6, and A7sIII - all full-frame, 4k, raw output. Where is the EVA-2? I think both the C70 and FX6 are very solid and great additions, but it does leave a big door open for Panasonic and the L-Mount. They already have the S1H (which is sort of the original C70) and now can complement those with a $6000-$7000 full-frame, 6k cinema camera. Release EVA-2 with L-Mount - FULL FRAME - 6k sensor - 120-180fps in 4k - IBIS - first ever in a cinema camera and make it LOCKABLE (I know cinema cameras "NEVER!" have IBIS, but I think the market would love it). - SDI and timecode (obviously) - Dual ISO (640 and 4000) - 12-bit codec - Codecs in EVA-2 and S1H and 5.9k ProRes Raw output are great - internal raw would be excellent but maybe not possible. An internal 12-bit codec would be awesome though. - ProRes - Just put it in there. Differentiate yourself from Canon/Sony with everyone's favorite codec. - PDAF - The market demands it. At least the S5 AF in the EVA-2. - Compact Body - Make it smaller, more like the FX6 sized than EVA-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I see the EVA2 being a 6k sensor with 120fps in 4k. I kind of think it will have no IBIS but I could be wrong. I am almost sure it will have the same crappy DFD auto focus. I imagine it will have RAW out and internal 10 bit 422 ALL-I. Hopefully it will have the option for high bitrate ALL-I like up to 800 but also as low as 100, should be an option. It really should have up to 10 stops of ND as well hopefully E-ND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currensheldon Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, TomTheDP said: I see the EVA2 being a 6k sensor with 120fps in 4k. I kind of think it will have no IBIS but I could be wrong. I am almost sure it will have the same crappy DFD auto focus. I imagine it will have RAW out and internal 10 bit 422 ALL-I. Hopefully it will have the option for high bitrate ALL-I like up to 800 but also as low as 100, should be an option. It really should have up to 10 stops of ND as well hopefully E-ND. If they add 120fps, that would really be the only upgrade to the EVA-1 (which already has loads of 10-bit 4k codecs and 5.7k ProRes Raw). I wonder if they'll swing for the fences a bit more to take on C300 III and FX9. Full-frame 8k? Internal raw (somehow?)? I wonder what they can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, currensheldon said: If they add 120fps, that would really be the only upgrade to the EVA-1 (which already has loads of 10-bit 4k codecs and 5.7k ProRes Raw). I wonder if they'll swing for the fences a bit more to take on C300 III and FX9. Full-frame 8k? Internal raw (somehow?)? I wonder what they can do. I’m guessing it’ll be full frame which is the difference I guess. 8k could be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 hours ago, currensheldon said: Canon: C500 II/C300 III, C70, and R5/R6. Only thing missing is the full-frame C90, rumored for 2021. Wasn't there also rumors of a C50 as well? Or was that just random forum speculation / wishful thinking. 3 hours ago, currensheldon said: Sony: FX9, FX6, and A7sIII - all full-frame, 4k, raw output. You left off Sony VENICE 3 hours ago, currensheldon said: Where is the EVA-2? The EVA1 at $6.5 vs FX6 at $6K means the EVA1 is now totally dead in the water when it comes to future sales. (unless it is some unusual exceptional circumstances, like you already have a fleet of EVA1 cameras and you absolutely must buy only a matching camera) Quote - FULL FRAME Panasonic could follow Canon, and release a body with a full frame lens mount but a S35 sensor. Would make happy all the people who have a FS7/FS5 with lots of premium S35 glass, but the FX9 is too expensive to leap on to (or whatever other reason they might not like it for). And the FX6 is ruled out due to not being able to do 4K S35 Although of course, I'd prefer it if the EVA2 had a MFT mount!! Please. Quote - 6k sensor We're not in a 6K world, and nowhere near close to that happening either. Won't be a deal breaker if the EVA2 lacks 6K. Quote - 120-180fps in 4k Not a deal breaker if it caps out at 4K 60fps (or heck, even 4K 30fps! But if it is limited to 4K 30fps its release price had better be significantly lower than even the Canon C70) Quote - IBIS - first ever in a cinema camera and make it LOCKABLE (I know cinema cameras "NEVER!" have IBIS, but I think the market would love it). Like you said, cinema cameras NEVER have this feature, so not a big deal if the EVA2 lacks IBIS. However, I have been saying "not a deal breaker" many times now. I do feel like Panasonic must select implementing at least one or two of these features and do it anyway, to help push the envelope and create overall an appealing package that people want to buy vs the competition. (unless they implement none of these?? And just compete purely on price?? Like if they put a S1H sensor and specs inside an original EVA1 body, then sold it at the same price as a S1H??? That wouldn't be a bad idea! Especially if they made at least one small tweak to the body, and ditched the EF mount for L Mount) IBIS would be the smartest of all these "not a deal breaker" features to include instead of excluding. As Panasonic has one of the very best IBIS system, with years of experience implementing IBIS in cameras, and it is a unique feature that would make them stand out from all over cinema cameras and that feature alone might attract a few buyers to them for it. Quote - SDI and timecode (obviously) Obviously. Quote - Dual ISO (640 and 4000) - 12-bit codec - Codecs in EVA-2 and S1H and 5.9k ProRes Raw output are great - internal raw would be excellent but maybe not possible. An internal 12-bit codec would be awesome though. - ProRes - Just put it in there. Differentiate yourself from Canon/Sony with everyone's favorite codec. Careful, can't be stepping too much on the toes of their Varicam users! Then again, the Varicam lineup is even older than the EVA1 itself, and deserves to gets its toes stepped up. Wonder if Varicam might see an update before EVA1 does? Quote - PDAF - The market demands it. At least the S5 AF in the EVA-2. PDAF won't happen in an EVA2. But yes, worth praying for S5 AF in an EVA2. currensheldon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currensheldon Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 All good points. C50 - The C50 is coming, yes, but I just don't think it will really be competing against the FX6 and EVA-2s of the worlds. Seems like it will be a box but with the C200 sensor (but without the raw?) - seems like it could be a bit of a meh release from Canon. Full rumored specs here: https://www.canonrumors.com/revisiting-the-canon-cinema-eos-c50-and-what-it-could-be/ S1H - I said it before, but the C70 is what the S1H should have been in the first place. As a mirrorless, everyone whined it was too large. They should have just beefed it up a bit, added internal NDs, an SDI, and maybe a couple mini XLR ports (or just stuck with their hotshoe XLR adapter, which works very well). I think it would have sold like hotcakes at $4.5k. -- Most of the specs I listed are specs I think Panasonic needs to differentiate themselves. I loved the EVA-1 and its specs still stack up well to most of the competition ($6500 for 4k 60fps, 10-bit in all sorts of flavors AND 5.7k ProRes Raw). But I think they either need to go BIG with the EVA-2 at the $6500 - 7500 price point (which might mean 8k, or 120fps+ at 4k, or ProRes internal, or (somehow) raw internal, full-frame sensor, IBIS, etc). Though, if they threw the S1H sensor into a BGH1-style box, added internal NDs and some mini XLRs, that would be pretty sweet as well. Trankilstef and IronFilm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trankilstef Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 11 hours ago, currensheldon said: Though, if they threw the S1H sensor into a BGH1-style box, added internal NDs and some mini XLRs, that would be pretty sweet as well. I think that's what will come first in 2021, followed by the EVA-2. Panasonic needs to release the successor of the EVA1 but also their high end cinema line (Varicam line) needs an update. Maybe a Varicam FF? So sad to let Sony, Red and Canon eating all the cake (Arri is in a world on its own). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trankilstef Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Did you guys see this first rurmor about not one but two potential new cine cameras from panasonic? looks like they're planning some C70 competitor, that would be awesome ! https://www.l-rumors.com/first-wild-rumored-specs-for-a-new-panasonic-l-mount-cine-camera/ IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Trankilstef said: Did you guys see this first rurmor about not one but two potential new cine cameras from panasonic? looks like they're planning some C70 competitor, that would be awesome ! https://www.l-rumors.com/first-wild-rumored-specs-for-a-new-panasonic-l-mount-cine-camera/ It’s gonna need some real sensor magic to compete with the C70’s dual gain. Would be nice to see something with dynamic range that matches an Alexa. 12 bit internal in some kind of compressed format would be killer. No crop HFR is essential and 6k. Honestly cameras are getting so good it’s hard to know what to ask for. A really nicely designed ergonomic body with a great menu layout. Trankilstef 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 All they need to do is stick the guts of a S1H inside an EVA1 body with an L Mount (or MFT!), and price it attractively. PannySVHS and Trankilstef 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 56 minutes ago, IronFilm said: All they need to do is stick the guts of a S1H inside an EVA1 body with an L Mount (or MFT!), and price it attractively. I’d say they should beef up the body as the OG felt cheap. Light is a good thing but cheap feeling isn’t. 10 stop ND would match the competition. It should be priced below the FX6 imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 6 hours ago, TomTheDP said: 10 stop ND would match the competition. Ideally at 1 stop steps! Like VENICE Trankilstef 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currensheldon Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 No news here, it seems. Canon and Sony have put out about a dozen cinema cameras since the EVA-1. Would love a full-frame, L-Mount EVA-2 to go with an S1H or S5. That's a nice combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.