Sony A7C - harms the camera industry

[dvcrn]

I'm in the market of a new camera to switch from my EOS R due to the R5 overheating debacle, so I'm kind of giving up on Canon. I wanted to get the a7sIII but now I think I might get the a7c instead. 

I want something compact and small that I can carry around and vlog with, but also use at home in a controlled environment. I care mostly about size, mic-in, flippy screen and autofocus, and the a7c ticks all of those boxes. 

14 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah.

E-M1 Mark III makes for a much better vlogging camera in my view.

MFT and APS-C work, but poop out when it gets darker. That, and AF until recently just wasn't there yet on anything that's not Canon. Sony improved their AF system so much that it is now almost as reliably. Even the color science took a big jump with the a7sIII. 

It's marketed as a camera for YouTubers, and for that case it's exactly what a lot of people (like myself) want. 

It might cut into their APS-C line and it might also not. FF is expensive and the lenses big and bulky. People that care about the bigger sensor will want this, but hobbyists that nibble into photography and videos won't shell out $1000+ USD for a wide-angle lens ontop of the $2000 that this costs IMO. 

[NeuroJitsu]

The other factor I think is under-played in your analysis is the impact of Chinese manufacturers.  The know-how and capability of Chinese manufacturers has piggy-backed on the big Japanese camera companies and American big tech firms that have production plants in China.  And so the economics of the industry has changed, and I would imagine this is a challenge for incumbent brands: how do you get a return on your R&D spend, and sustain that spend, when the Chinese manufacturers are racing ahead now and pricing aggressively?  

Blackmagic and Atomos have found their ways of doing it.  Interesting times.

[Resonance]

11 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

12 hours ago, Resonance said:

Since two years, Panasonic gives hints that the GH6 will offer this game changing improvement in image quality in 2020. They will likely announce it this year, a few months after the purposely limited S5.

I'm not sure what they could do that would be game changing?

Doubled dynamic range.

11 hours ago, Resonance said:

In 2009 a lone programmer found a way to dramatically improve the image quality of the Canon 5d2 by potentially doubling the dynamic range. Eleven years later, there are 8k60 sensors with this capability and dual pixel autofocus over the whole sensor, but absolutely no camera on the "market" offering anything approaching such an easily doubled dynamic range.

For example at the end of April, a much cited Facehook post pointed to a misnamed Sony sensor Thomas Hintze of Raw Akademie found to be IMX492LQJ:
youtube.com/watch?v=1KU7lTOZLMI?t=240

After we will finally be able to film scenes like this, most prior footage will look inferior:
wallhere.com/en/wallpaper/112726

[Resonance]

Better link:

For example at the end of April, a much cited Facehook post pointed to a misnamed Sony sensor Thomas Hintze of Raw Akademie found to be IMX492LQJ:
youtube.com/watch?v=1KU7lTOZLMI&t=240

[Elias]

23 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Do we really want to end up with a dominant Sony and their soulless shooting experience, boring ergonomics, and Canon with their marketing games?

Just those two?

Rather than do something genuinely interesting in the APS-C market like Fuji has done with their rangefinder style mirrorless cameras, Sony has simply slapped a full frame sensor in one of the most unergonomic and boring bodies, it's the most unimaginative, most risk averse way to kill the crop sensor market I've ever seen.

 

I don't think this move by Sony will kill the likes of Fuji (or Panasonic for that matter) and instead will keep pushing them to innovate and lower prices for us all while providing us with better cameras.

However I do agree with you in some of the things you're saying, like for example the fact that today other brands provide a better value, although this would depend on if you're a new user or an existing user. If you're already invested on Sony glass then this camera would be a great one to carry around for light work of your family trips, but if you're new you're better off buying a Fuji or Panasonic probably.

On a side note, as much as I appreciate the APS-C format (I have tried three times over the past 4 years to get an APS-C camera for my travels) specially for video (like with a Speedbooster) the bottom line is that I personally can't get over the fact that full-frame sensors provide much less noise on photographs, but the framing is just way nicer, so I'm all happy to see new small form-factor cameras coming into the market with full-frame sensor. I think that once we cross the "under US$999" price there will be no turning back and the APS-C market will dramatically decrease in size (at least among Pros and knowledgeable enthusiasts like me). There's of course the lens cost (which is what will keep many on the APS-C front for a while) but that's also changing with newer lens entries from Sigma and the likes.

As for my biggest wish: A truly universal lens mount to allow us to mix and match bodies.

Cheers!

 

[Andrew Reid]

10 hours ago, Resonance said:

Better link:

For example at the end of April, a much cited Facehook post pointed to a misnamed Sony sensor Thomas Hintze of Raw Akademie found to be IMX492LQJ:
youtube.com/watch?v=1KU7lTOZLMI&t=240

Why are you stripping the https://www from YouTube links... Embed them with the full URL. Cheers

[Resonance]

Dear Andrew, because I got errors trying to post links here. I also got errors trying to post images. The system seems a bit clumsy, the error messages sometimes missing and otherwise not informative. Can you please remove my two negative ratings by Canon shill accounts seanzzxx and Coffe ?

[timapple]

Whether you like this camera or not, or will buy one or not ... you still have to appreciate that for $2000 it blows away an $8000 Leica M.
No, it’s not built like a tank and doesn’t have that “jewel” elegance. But for those wanting a rangefinder-ish experience and a relatively inexpensive camera they can always have with them, it’s still a pretty cool camera. It won’t replace my other a7’s but I’ll probably get one.
Life is too short to bitch about everything. Have some fun once in a while. If it’s such an awful camera like many are implying then it’s not going to put Fuji or Panasonic out of business, is it? 

[wobba]

20 minutes ago, timapple said:

Whether you like this camera or not, or will buy one or not ... you still have to appreciate that for $2000 it blows away an $8000 Leica M.
No, it’s not built like a tank and doesn’t have that “jewel” elegance. But for those wanting a rangefinder-ish experience and a relatively inexpensive camera they can always have with them, it’s still a pretty cool camera. It won’t replace my other a7’s but I’ll probably get one.
Life is too short to bitch about everything. Have some fun once in a while. If it’s such an awful camera like many are implying then it’s not going to put Fuji or Panasonic out of business, is it? 

I would put my money on the A7C being more reliable than any Leica digital M body. The A7C body also seems to be very well built. From DPReview:

"Although it looks a lot like an a6000-series model, the a7C itself feels extremely rugged in a way that those cameras don't. It's housed in what Sony calls a magnesium alloy monocoque: a combined, single-piece chassis and shell, akin to what US car-makers would call 'unibody' construction. This ensures there's no flex or give anywhere in the camera. It also means there are fewer body seams to seal against the elements."

[John Matthews]

@Andrew Reid I'm in complete agreement with this article. I've said it before, but Sigma, Olympus, Nikon, and even Pentax are in a unique position of being able to seriously undercut Canon, Sony, Panasonic, and maybe Fuji in terms of their pro cine camera lines. I seriously doubt Nikon (head in their keister) and Pentax (the forgotten one) would do anything as they are trying to put out fires on two fronts. However, Sigma and Olympus (JIP) could have real opportunity here to do damage to their competitors.

[seanzzxx]

10 hours ago, Resonance said:

Dear Andrew, because I got errors trying to post links here. I also got errors trying to post images. The system seems a bit clumsy, the error messages sometimes missing and otherwise not informative. Can you please remove my two negative ratings by Canon shill accounts seanzzxx and Coffe ?

The only reason I downvoted you is because I intensely dislike your post-truth, conspiratorial worldview: I think it stands in the way of productive discussion. You calling me (a yearlong, very inactive member who has basically only posted about Blackmagic and RED during his time here) a Canon shill, instead of applying even a modicum of Occam's Razor and just assuming I'm someone in disagreement with your tone and ideas, really goes to prove my point. Anyhow.

[Resonance]

56 minutes ago, seanzzxx said:

I downvoted you is because I intensely dislike your post-truth

Ah, passion and anti-"post-truth" ideology.

No fact can match that.

Sorry for mislabeling you.

[douglaurent]

Typical journalist thinking, it’s always too quick/too late, too cheap/too expensive, too little/too much etc. with many contradictions.  The truth is the gear options are at an all time high, and if all brands stop releasing products now, it would still be a photographer’s and filmmakers paradise forever.  Only problem right now is that most of the best new mirrorless lenses are priced a bit high, but those are the lenses that are not used, revievew or recommended by EOSHD anyway.

[EduPortas]

I agree that Sony is strangling its own APS-C with this new model.

There are also older FF models by Sony that have come down in price and are still abundant. 

So yeah, if I were a Sony APS-C user I'd be worried (I was about ten years ago, so I sold my Sony gear, actually).

Sony is clearly dividing their market: smaller and cheaper cameras like the recent ZV-1 and the bigger and more expensive FF models. The trend is V-loging, but the same gear can be used for a lot more. It's a marketing thing.

Seems very clear cut.

[Nerv]

Canon C70 is a bad ass camera. Super 35 = perfect. full frame not necessary.  add RAW light and its all set. no EVF...big deal