Live streaming with unique codes

[Kisaha]

I had a proposition to cover a local football (soccer!) league for minimal requirements, but the important thing is, that the teams need unique codes to sell instead of tickets.

Does anyone know any solution? What you do think about it, and what hardware/software you consider as essential?

[BTM_Pix]

This is an example starting point of a ticketing service provider.

https://www.ticketspice.com/ticketing-for-livestream-events/

I've never used them, or any other provider of a similar service but it will at least give you an idea of what is involved and an outline of pricing.

Obviously, shop around.

[Kisaha]

Cheers!

What equipment do you suggest and what are the bandwidth limitations do you think?

[BTM_Pix]

There are a lot of variables with this mate !

The first of which, of course, is budget.

The second which, may or may not be related to the above completely although of course they will impact on each other, is how many cameras you want to use.

The third would be how many of them are going to be live operated.

The fourth would be the network capability of the venue, both in terms of is it wired as well as the speed and if it will be for the exclusive use of you broadcasting.

So if it is just a single camera on the halfway line then you will only need a way of encoding and getting the stream out, which could be done with one of the low price HDMI encoders with wifi and/or singular cellular option or a more sophisticated, not to mention expensive, one with cellular bonding.

The upload speed you will need for 1080 live streaming is around 5 Megabits per second so isn't particularly onerous for a fixed installation but if the club also use that connection for other purposes such as providing internet access for staff, press or fans then you'll be sharing that with them. With cellular its exactly the same if not worse as a lot of fans will be as glued to their smartphones these days as they are to the action in front of them sadly.

If you can guarantee a network connection (ideally wired but wifi if not) and are only using one camera then the price of entry for you to do it will be an HDMI cable and about €150-170 on Aliexpres for an NPF powered on camera encoder like this one.

 

The version with a single 4G sim will be around €350.

If you want multi-cellular bonded connections then you are looking at products from Teradek or the LiveU Solo which will be over the €1K mark and also require fees for cloud services that reconstruct the different data streams into one for broadcasting with.

In terms of scaling up, the encoder/transmitter aspect won't change but obviously you'll need to have a budget per camera channel both in terms of the cameras themselves, the switcher capacity and the control and connection costs.

That last part will form another big part of the equation because the cable runs and infrastructure required to have multiple cameras around a football pitch can become a headache and might actually end up determining what sort of cameras and switcher you have to buy.

As will whether you are just having to provide a basic video stream or are being asked to do a full production with scoreboard, action replays etc.

Definitely a how long is a piece of string question this one.

 

[Kisaha]

Thank you very much for the time of writing this @BTM_Pix.

I am doing my research right now, but it seems like the bottle neck is the bandwidth.

Thanks.

[BTM_Pix]

11 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I am doing my research right now, but it seems like the bottle neck is the bandwidth.

I suppose the upside of not being able to have fans in the stadium at the moment is that the cellular bandwidth doesn't get eaten up !

 

[BTM_Pix]

Feelworld have announced an interesting alternative to the ATEM Mini.

https://feelworld.ltd/products/feelworld-livepro-l1-multi-format-video-mixer-switcher-4-x-hdmi-inputs-real-time-live-streaming?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIusbQwLeJ7AIVUBHgCh2oNwhUEAEYASAAEgIrMvD_BwE

Its the same $299 price as the ATEM Mini but its slightly smaller and has an integral screen.

That makes it a lot more self contained (as the ATEM Mini needs a screen) so opens up the possibility of mounting it to the side of the tripod of the main camera (on an iPad type tray for example) and switching multi cameras yourself while operating the master one.

A lot less buttons than the ATEM but that simplicity will be a boon for operating in that environment, particularly as the sources are separated and laid out as per the quadrants of the screen.

Another advantage it has over the base level ATEM Mini is that if you do attach an external screen then it also has multi-view monitoring.

 

[Kisaha]

great info!

I would expect more people are going "streaming" these days, especially in this forum, and we will see more hardware solutions soon.

This Feelworld maybe more available as well, than the ATEM, the pro though, is very very tempting..

[BTM_Pix]

41 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

 

This Feelworld maybe more available as well, than the ATEM, the pro though, is very very tempting..

The problem with the ATEM Mini Pro is that you'll look at the ATEM Mini Pro ISO and think "yeah, I might as well go all in and get that one" 😉

The ATEM Mini Pro ISO is an incredibly versatile and capable piece of gear and if you were going in to this do different types of jobs as well, like shooting live music shows for example where you are providing a live stream and also want to post edit it, then it is perfect, particularly if you are using BM Pocket cameras.

If you are just doing this straightforward live football thing then its not exactly overkill, particularly if you are tasked with producing an edited version with replays from different angles etc, but the "four buttons and a screen" aspect of the Feelworld has some big advantages usability and simplicity wise.

In that instance, the extra budget might be better off being diverted the upload side of things or remote cameras etc.

Or just save yourself the agonising and buy both !

[EphraimP]

On 9/27/2020 at 6:48 AM, BTM_Pix said:

Feelworld have announced an interesting alternative to the ATEM Mini.

https://feelworld.ltd/products/feelworld-livepro-l1-multi-format-video-mixer-switcher-4-x-hdmi-inputs-real-time-live-streaming?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIusbQwLeJ7AIVUBHgCh2oNwhUEAEYASAAEgIrMvD_BwE

Its the same $299 price as the ATEM Mini but its slightly smaller and has an integral screen.

 

This is an interesting unit, but after doing multiple streams as a solo operator with 3 cameras on the ATEM Pro, I've gotta say that little screen is window dressing, not something that is very useful. Even using a 5 inch monitor as my multiview monitor when I didn't have a large one along, I've found that I couldn't always tell if the cameras were tack sharp or the framing was perfect. If you had operators on all your cams who you could trust to nail focus/framing, then that little screen might help you decide what camera to select. A 15-inch monitor is about the smallest that I've found to be actually useful, and even then I'm often swapping the multi-cam view to a full screen view of a particular camera if I need to check it for focus/exposure/framing. I like that the ATEM has dedicated buttons for it don't select which camera you're cutting to.

I do like the button separation for the cameras. There have definitely been times that I've cut to the wrong camera because they are all in a line an I'm typically looking at the multiview or a specific camera that I'm using to do a rack focus or a pan. On the other hand, the dedicated buttons on the ATEM for sound, PiP, greens screen effects,  recording,  ect, are a help, not a hindrance. 

On 9/27/2020 at 7:07 AM, Kisaha said:

great info!

I would expect more people are going "streaming" these days, especially in this forum, and we will see more hardware solutions soon.

This Feelworld maybe more available as well, than the ATEM, the pro though, is very very tempting..

I'll sell you  a Pro... so I can get the Pro ISO. Seriously though, BTM_Pix is right about the ISO being very tempting for someone considering the Pro. In terms of other hardware you want to get with an ATEM, unless you're going the bonded cellular route, you'll need a small ethernet switch with at least three ports: one for ethernet in, one for your computer and one for the ATEM. A hardwired connection really is a must, unless you're plugging directly into the computer with USB to use as a web cam for Zoom. Using the the USB web cam route for Facebook/YouTube is not a good idea at all. Both networks have issues recognizing the ATEM as a web camera, so then you'd have to use OBS or another such program, which negates all of the benefits of the ATEM series being an actual hardware encoder. 

Like I said above, you really will  want a decent sized monitor, unless you're only using one camera. On field, if you don't have a lot of table space, you might want to mount the monitor on a light stand. You'll need one that's 1,000-2,000 nits, or get  a massive sun hood. 

For sound, you can go SooC if you've got good mics on them. Since I stream concerts, I have the sound board give me audio into a MixPre 3 II, which I send into camera A so I don't have to worry about audio delay. Both the ATEM and the MixPre can delay audio, but why deal with it when you don't have to?

In terms of how to get your unique link the league can sell, an easy option is to use an unlisted YouTube stream. I've done that for two virtual fundraiser concerts. If the league has e-commerce functionality on its website, you won't need a third-party solution for tickets. The league can sell virtual tickets. Once a buyer purchases one, the league can email them the link, or notify them a link will be sent to them sometime before game time. If you set up the stream as an unlisted stream you can then house it permanently on YouTube as unlisted and keep selling tickets to people who didn't see it live but want to watch it later. Or, you can decide to make it public after the fact. 

[BTM_Pix]

53 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

This is an interesting unit, but after doing multiple streams as a solo operator with 3 cameras on the ATEM Pro, I've gotta say that little screen is window dressing, not something that is very useful.

As I said, there is no question that the ATEM Mini Pro or Pro ISO will kick its arse but the specific use case was for covering a football match as a solo operator from the halfway line where having a single integrated unit small enough to have on the side of the tripod would be an advantage in my opinion as its role is more or less like a CCTV switcher than a full on production unit.

In that instance, the two cameras facing the goals and the wide from the halfway line would be fixed and only the "master" camera would be tracking so for simplicity's sake having the integrated monitor is more of a sanity check that the cameras are still working 😉 

There is an argument for the idiot proofness of the 4 buttons and a screen in that situation of shooting an unpredictable sport like football too as well as not having something else to power and connect.

I was shocked when I unpacked my ATEM Mini Pro ISO at just how mini it was but I still think it would be more unwieldy in this specific use case (though I have developed a possibly semi-interesting product for it that would make things a little easier). 

I used to shoot a lot of very packed press conferences with two cameras on a dual mount with one fixed wide and the other being operated manually. I had an ATEM Studio HD in a small custom case to switch them and brought the preview feed up to a 5" monitor on a clamp on the tripod leg, so I'd have killed to have the simplicity and compactness of that Feelworld in that environment !

I'm actually surprised no one has yet released a clamshell case for the ATEM Mini series with an integrated rechargeable monitor like they have for gaming consoles to be honest as I think it would do well. 

 

[BTM_Pix]

54 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

You'll need one that's 1,000-2,000 nits, or get  a massive sun hood. 

Excellent point.

I understand that the sun is no stranger to the environments that @Kisaha would be shooting.