Test footage of Sony A7SIII early morning waterfall, testing S-Log3 and Leeming LUT

[Hangs4Fun]

I exported 2 different 4K versions of this, one best for Vimeo and one best for YouTube.  I don't have a CFast card yet, so this is limited to v90, and had issues with gear and couldn't get RAW this time (well add both RAW and the higher options once I get my CFast card.  On my monitor the vimeo image looks better, it seems to have more details in the white water section.

Here is the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/PgS_RUuPun

Here is the Vimeo video: https://vimeo.com/464041748

Besides not having my longer HDMI cable packed (missing out on RAW footage), I also broke the 75mm spider of my trusty Induro GIT304L, which ended my ability to use my motorized Jib/pan/tilt setup, and had to revert to the much lighter slider.  Was able to somewhat hold up the tripod with the slider on it to do dolly out and slides, but it was very sketchy.  This also kept from using my Ninja V and getting some RAW because I only had a 14" hdmi cable and couldn't hold it and the tripod and the slider together.

I will get back out there and next get the higher quality 4K/120fps and HD/240fps as well as RAW.  

But in this video, you will see 4K XAVC S-I 24fps and 60fps, 4k XAVC HS 120fps, and 4K XAVC S 120fps from 100mbps to 600mbps; the first two with audio.  For each clip I provide all of the details of the shot (camera, lens, all exposure settings, codec, gamma, gamut, frame rate, file size, size per second of video, etc.

 

 

[docmoore]

Beautiful footage ... the slider moves looked great.

Look forward to seeing the RAW.

[Hangs4Fun]

5 minutes ago, docmoore said:

Beautiful footage ... the slider moves looked great.

Look forward to seeing the RAW.

Thanks.  Sadly my tripod's 75mm bowl broke, so I was literally holding it together AND trying to slide and keep from falling in the cold water (rocks were all smooth and slick, lol).  My CFast cards will be in next Friday, so I plan to reshoot with the higher 120 rates, 240, and RAW then.  PLUS, my tripod will be fixed and I can add the Jib/Pan/Tilt movement (and that is fully motorized). 🙂

[Trek of Joy]

Looks really good. Nice job despite gear issues. 

chris

[LightShooter]

1 hour ago, Hangs4Fun said:

I exported 2 different 4K versions of this, one best for Vimeo and one best for YouTube.  I don't have a CFast card yet, so this is limited to v90, and had issues with gear and couldn't get RAW this time (well add both RAW and the higher options once I get my CFast card.  On my monitor the vimeo image looks better, it seems to have more details in the white water section.

Here is the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/PgS_RUuPun

Here is the Vimeo video: https://vimeo.com/464041748

 

 

 

Outstanding! Can't wait to see the RAW

[Hene1]

Blacks are totally crushed in grade, doesn't look good.

[Hangs4Fun]

1 minute ago, Hene1 said:

Blacks are totally crushed in grade, doesn't look good.

there was no grade yet.  This was a test to see how straight out of the camera and a corrective LUT (not a creative LUT) got it to a starting point for S-Log3.  I can post a graded version and you will see there is plenty of info in the blacks and shadows. 

[Hangs4Fun]

11 minutes ago, Hene1 said:

Blacks are totally crushed in grade, doesn't look good.

If you've ever used any of the Leeming corrective LUT's, they correct the manufacturer luma curves to be linear. In most (but not all) cases, this results in the image “appearing” to be darker, but it’s not affecting anything, nor clipping anything, nor adding additional noise that wasn’t in the shot to begin with.  Now you just adjust the exposure, saturation, and contrast to taste and/or use a creative LUT.   My point of this post though was to not do anything like that, that in interpretive, like a color grade would be, so instead picked something that was just a starting point.  The important thing being that from that point grade it as per my customer, my own preferences, etc.  If you had perfect blacks at this stage with a high dynamic scene, there is no way hell you have protected your highlights, which the whole point of the Leeming LUT's.  Now, if I went to grade the footage from here and the blacks were actually crushed (and they are not), then I would balance the exposure down a bit and give up some highlight detail.  I can share an actual graded version, but that was not intent here.

[Hene1]

6 minutes ago, Hangs4Fun said:

If you've ever used any of the Leeming corrective LUT's, they correct the manufacturer luma curves to be linear. In most (but not all) cases, this results in the image “appearing” to be darker, but it’s not affecting anything, nor clipping anything, nor adding additional noise that wasn’t in the shot to begin with.  Now you just adjust the exposure, saturation, and contrast to taste and/or use a creative LUT.   My point of this post though was to not do anything like that, that in interpretive, like a color grade would be, so instead picked something that was just a starting point.  The important thing being that from that point grade it as per my customer, my own preferences, etc.  If you had perfect blacks at this stage with a high dynamic scene, there is no way hell you have protected your highlights, which the whole point of the Leeming LUT's.  Now, if I went to grade the footage from here and the blacks were actually crushed (and they are not), then I would balance the exposure down a bit and give up some highlight detail.  I can share an actual graded version, but that was not intent here.

I use Leeming LUT in every project. If you take screenshot of that YouTube video and check it for example in Photoshop with eyedropper tool, you can see that RGB values of the dark areas are 000, so there is absolutely no information left. It's not even just the darkest bits, it's all the large dark areas.

[Hangs4Fun]

I was just looking at that and I see what you are saying with the rendered version.  Something happened from Premiere to the exported Vimeo/YouTube...  I didn't adjust the Preset for Vimeo 4K or YouTube 4K at all.  What export do you do?

[Hene1]

5 minutes ago, Hangs4Fun said:

I was just looking at that and I see what you are saying with the rendered version.  Something happened from Premiere to the exported Vimeo/YouTube...  I didn't adjust the Preset for Vimeo 4K or YouTube 4K at all.  What export do you do?

I read the description in YouTube and you mention that you hit the "auto" button in Premiere. I've tested it only once or twice and the results haven't been good. It might be what ruined your colors. Maybe apply only Leeming and nothing else (or maybe just lift exposure if blacks are too dark)?

[Hangs4Fun]

2 minutes ago, Hene1 said:

I read the description in YouTube and you mention that you hit the "auto" button in Premiere. I've tested it only once or twice and the results haven't been good. It might be what ruined your colors. Maybe apply only Leeming and nothing else (or maybe just lift exposure if blacks are too dark)?

Let me check, when I did it, I noticed that all of the "basic correction" exposure values didn't change, so I just assumed it didn't do anything. Other than that or the export (it's not YT or Vimeo, because I checked and the exported files also have the zeroed black areas), there wasn't much else to do, I had my zebra's set to the 94+ that Paul recommended for the A7SIII.  That being said, I sent him the colorchecker results and this, and he said he's getting married today 🙂 and will work on a new set just for the A7SIII when he is back from his honeymoon.  Until then, any suggestions to try in the image capture if it's not the "AUTO" option?  If I remember correctly, only 1 of the clips, showed any changes after hitting AUTO, but to your point that could be it.

Much appreciated, I really want to dial in my production workflow, so I have the confidence to shoot in S-Log3 and know what I can and can't do with it in post after it is too late 😉

[Hangs4Fun]

10 minutes ago, Hene1 said:

I read the description in YouTube and you mention that you hit the "auto" button in Premiere. I've tested it only once or twice and the results haven't been good. It might be what ruined your colors. Maybe apply only Leeming and nothing else (or maybe just lift exposure if blacks are too dark)?

holy crap, I just did a reset on the correction and the image went darker of course, but there popped back all of the black details!  Though it is back to being a darker image, but all of the shadow areas have full data again.

Have you used the Leeming LUTs for the Alpha series on the A7SIII yet?  What is your workflow from the corrective standpoint?  I'm trying to find the best approach to publishing a version of the footage that is a neutral and starting point as possible, but also not too dark.

[omega1978]

4 minutes ago, Hangs4Fun said:

Let me check, when I did it, I noticed that all of the "basic correction" exposure values didn't change, so I just assumed it didn't do anything. Other than that or the export (it's not YT or Vimeo, because I checked and the exported files also have the zeroed black areas), there wasn't much else to do, I had my zebra's set to the 94+ that Paul recommended for the A7SIII.  That being said, I sent him the colorchecker results and this, and he said he's getting married today 🙂 and will work on a new set just for the A7SIII when he is back from his honeymoon.  Until then, any suggestions to try in the image capture if it's not the "AUTO" option?  If I remember correctly, only 1 of the clips, showed any changes after hitting AUTO, but to your point that could be it.

Much appreciated, I really want to dial in my production workflow, so I have the confidence to shoot in S-Log3 and know what I can and can't do with it in post after it is too late 😉

Normaly this auto mode in Lumetri crash the blacks and nothing else.

Maybe check the blacklevel setting there.

[Hangs4Fun]

1 minute ago, omega1978 said:

Normaly this auto mode in Lumetri crash the blacks and nothing else.

Maybe check the blacklevel setting there.

yep, that was the issue SMH   Now to figure out the best way to lighten the image from this point without crushing my highlights, lol.  Anyone else use a Leeming LUT workflow and could give some advice on bringing the dark starting point to something showable?  I don't want to introduce my own personal grade on it, just a common starting point that will show the dynamic range.

THANKS for the input so far, I really appreciate it 😉

[omega1978]

24 minutes ago, Hangs4Fun said:

yep, that was the issue SMH   Now to figure out the best way to lighten the image from this point without crushing my highlights, lol.  Anyone else use a Leeming LUT workflow and could give some advice on bringing the dark starting point to something showable?  I don't want to introduce my own personal grade on it, just a common starting point that will show the dynamic range.

THANKS for the input so far, I really appreciate it 😉

Normaly i work from blacklevel upwards, that i lower just before legal clipping point.

Than lower whites and raise shadows, always in the range of 16-235 in the RGB parade. 

Finally add contrast and exposure of your taste and ad saturation if nedded.

[Hangs4Fun]

woo whooo..  Induro came through and sent me the replacement spider for my shoot tomorrow (shooting an OktoberFest).  I'm going to fill in that screw hole with some 6,000 psi ePoxy I have and hope it doesn't happen again

[Hangs4Fun]

19 hours ago, omega1978 said:

Normaly i work from blacklevel upwards, that i lower just before legal clipping point.

Than lower whites and raise shadows, always in the range of 16-235 in the RGB parade. 

Finally add contrast and exposure of your taste and ad saturation if nedded.

I figured out what happened.  I use Adjustment layers in Premiere, and normally work on it.  I applied the corrective LUT first to the layer, and then went and did more edits.  At some point the "AUTO" was done on the video itself, and I went on and did other things.  Then when I checked the first time, I went to the Adjustment layer and it looked like AUTO didn't do anything, so it was just the Leeming corrective LUT.  When back on each video clip was the mess that AUTO had done.. SMH

What I was hoping to achieve was a neutral display of the various codecs and options with movement and challenging light.  Your process commented above, is more of a full grade.  Any suggestions on how to keep this as neutral of a test as possible, yet still get the footage past the typical dark starting point of the Leeming corrective LUT?  I'm looking for a very repeatable process that will take us right to the point, anyone would start with that corrected footage and apply creative adjustments from there.

Also, it sounds like you have your RGB Parade in 8bit, since you mentioned 16-235 (on a 0-255 scale or 8bit).  Mine is set on 10bit which obviously is showing 0-1023.  Since I am publishing this Vimeo that supports 10bit, I was thinking I should be in the 10bit color space.  What are your thoughts on that?

[Hangs4Fun]

OK, I reset everything and now just looking to apply the corrective LUT and some level of a neutral starting grade. 

Here is just 24 second clip of one of the first clip.  Just goes to show, I was so focused on the highlights, I completely ignored my blacks and shadows.  I think from here, a decent creative grade could be done, with plenty of room to push it.

https://vimeo.com/user122394328/review/464516430/65a7a1eb4d

Below is my workspace AFTER removing the damage from AUTO, and doing what I was trying to avoid (basic grade that might have my interpretations in it, but oh well).

And here is the cringy BEFORE, where I hit AUTO on my video layer and later when I went to see what it did on my adjustment layer, it looked to be no changes, when in fact it was.  Notice just how crushed the blacks were with the auto button and it just goes to show you, not to focus on any one aspect.  I would really appreciate feedback on what is considered a good neutral starting point after ETTR to 94+ and then applying the Leeming corrective LUT for S-Log3.  I'm looking for some good starting point that you could then take and apply a creative LUT to match another camera or do a custom grade to taste.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.    

[LightShooter]

31 minutes ago, Hangs4Fun said:

OK, I reset everything and now just looking to apply the corrective LUT and some level of a neutral starting grade. 

Here is just 24 second clip of one of the first clip.  Just goes to show, I was so focused on the highlights, I completely ignored my blacks and shadows.  I think from here, a decent creative grade could be done, with plenty of room to push it.

https://vimeo.com/user122394328/review/464516430/65a7a1eb4d

Below is my workspace AFTER removing the damage from AUTO, and doing what I was trying to avoid (basic grade that might have my interpretations in it, but oh well).

And here is the cringy BEFORE, where I hit AUTO on my video layer and later when I went to see what it did on my adjustment layer, it looked to be no changes, when in fact it was.  Notice just how crushed the blacks were with the auto button and it just goes to show you, not to focus on any one aspect.  I would really appreciate feedback on what is considered a good neutral starting point after ETTR to 94+ and then applying the Leeming corrective LUT for S-Log3.  I'm looking for some good starting point that you could then take and apply a creative LUT to match another camera or do a custom grade to taste.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.    

Much better blacks now. What about the slider shots?