Panasonic S5 User Experience

[stephen]

You can find S1 second hand with some warranty left for 1500 E/$. So even you have to pay for the V-Log upgrade it is still a very good deal.

Panasonic S5 vs S1. In my opinion it boils down to one or two major differences.

    1. Do you want a smaller lighter camera or not. How important this is to you. How often you will use it on a gimbal ?
    2. Are you planning to record most of the time internally 10bit 4:2:2 or externally to ProRes RAW. If it is externally then S1 is the better option. It has Full Size HDMI. For S5 you'll have to add a bracket and a clamp for the micro HDMI cable. Once you do this (and have HDMI cable plugged in) flip screen becomes unusable, rotation is blocked by the HDMI cable. And S5 weight and size with bracket and clamp equals S1.

Looked at several clips from S1 shot at internal  V-Log 10bit 4:2:2. Skin tone come always reddish after color space transform in Resolve and Red color is a little bit off in general. So it requires some work at post. Not quite as nice as BMPCC 4K BRAW. So for me plan is to use external recorder most of the time. And in this case S1 seems to be the better option. For internal recording would probably choose S5. Flip screen is useful and Micro HDMI doesn't matter.

Downloadable V-Log clips at first two links. Panasonic S1H compared to Sigma FP at third link, how red color looks on both (after 2:12, compared at 3:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGqrGCz_l-k&t=230s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Al-tIFXFuY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQJkcTd82Uo   

[MrSMW]

Everything is a matter of opinion, but on one hand you have dozens of 'reviewers/content creators' unboxing a product before (sometimes) going outside and waving it about...and then you have filmmakers:

Entirely shot on the S5 with the 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 and the 85mm f1.8

YouTube won't do it justice...

 

 

[SteveV4D]

47 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Everything is a matter of opinion, but on one hand you have dozens of 'reviewers/content creators' unboxing a product before (sometimes) going outside and waving it about...and then you have filmmakers:

Entirely shot on the S5 with the 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 and the 85mm f1.8

YouTube won't do it justice...

 

 

Filming is dynamic.  Some of the editing choice verge on the gimmicky.  But the colour grade is a bit off for me on most of the shots.  Not sure it makes me think the S5 is wow.  

1 hour ago, stephen said:

Looked at several clips from S1 shot at internal  V-Log 10bit 4:2:2. Skin tone come always reddish after color space transform in Resolve and Red color is a little bit off in general. So it requires some work at post. Not quite as nice as BMPCC 4K BRAW. So for me plan is to use external recorder most of the time. And in this case S1 seems to be the better option. 

I'm still looking for a hybrid.  Though my eyes are more drawn to cameras like the C70 and Komodo for my next purchase.  Photography plays little in my work,  but a replacement for my GH5 still gets used and could use updating.  The S5 seemed more obvious than the S1, but that update to the S1 means the camera is now back in the loop.   It looks the better choice than the S5 for features.   

[herein2020]

13 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Everything is a matter of opinion, but on one hand you have dozens of 'reviewers/content creators' unboxing a product before (sometimes) going outside and waving it about...and then you have filmmakers:

Entirely shot on the S5 with the 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 and the 85mm f1.8

YouTube won't do it justice...

 

 

Amazing video and cinematography, not one thing seems off to me, I guess sometimes people just see what they want to see. They did a lot of speed ramping which isn't for everyone, but this wasn't supposed to be a corporate video; it really showcased the slow motion capabilities of the S5. What I found really interesting is they even used 1080P 120FPS for some of the shots which most people are saying is trash due to the bitrate; clearly pretty much anything is useable if you work within its limitations, have a good story, and know your camera. 

The entire video was flawless IMO and really showcased what this camera can do; they also managed to upscale the 1080P back to 4K without it being obvious which parts were which. Really well done. This video makes me look at 1080P out of this camera in a whole different way and I may try it one day if I want 120FPS.

[ntblowz]

18 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Everything is a matter of opinion, but on one hand you have dozens of 'reviewers/content creators' unboxing a product before (sometimes) going outside and waving it about...and then you have filmmakers:

Entirely shot on the S5 with the 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 and the 85mm f1.8

YouTube won't do it justice

 

I can see some noise on the slowmo/some night shot, and the white balance is a bit cold on some of those shot?  The grade he use is not my cup of tea, I prefer this guy's setup for colour

 

 

 

[MrSMW]

I posted 'Soul of Tokyo' more as an example of a filmmakers 'review' as in he actually went out and shot a shit ton of material and made a film with it. And not just shot it, but scripted it first so there was intent with most if not all of it. 

Compared with 99 other YouTube reviews which are basically; un-box in purple/blue back-lit room wearing a baseball cap backwards because that's what someone with the initials P.M. does. Or used to do. Quote specs. Go outside and wave it about without even trying to fine-tune any settings. Say the AF is shit (because you have to by international law), then put it back in the box and return to sender before making your next bit of 'content'.

Just had a look at Russell's (above) stuff and it's OK. The only 'issue' I have with it is the same issue I have with so many others work is that they take a profile, destroy it and then add a heavy-handed LUT back on top that takes the colours too far when IMO, a subtle tweak of the profile SOOC seems so much nicer to me. I think it's because some people just feel they need to fiddle just because.

Not knocking the guy, I looked at some of his work and longer stuff on his website and liked a lot of it. 

[TomTheDP]

On 11/8/2020 at 5:12 AM, stephen said:

 

Looked at several clips from S1 shot at internal  V-Log 10bit 4:2:2. Skin tone come always reddish after color space transform in Resolve and Red color is a little bit off in general. So it requires some work at post. Not quite as nice as BMPCC 4K BRAW. So for me plan is to use external recorder most of the time. And in this case S1 seems to be the better option. For internal recording would probably choose S5. Flip screen is useful and Micro HDMI doesn't matter.

 

I highly recommend the GHAlex LUT. Its a bit pricey but it feels like a different camera after using that LUT. Panasonic color is a bit trash but so is pretty much every other company besides Arri and maybe Canon lol. 

The Panasonic S1 is hard to beat for the price especially a used one. 

[herein2020]

40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

I highly recommend the GHAlex LUT. Its a bit pricey but it feels like a different camera after using that LUT. Panasonic color is a bit trash but so is pretty much every other company besides Arri and maybe Canon lol. 

The Panasonic S1 is hard to beat for the price especially a used one. 

I use Noam Kroll's Master Pack III LUTS, they are great for finishing a project (very pricey though). He also contacted me asking for some sample VLOG footage out of the S5 because he is going to make a VLOG to Rec709 LUT and I have no doubt that it will be great, I will start using his new VLOG LUT as soon as it is done. For now though I'm using Ground Control's free Panasonic VLOG to Rec709 LUT which works better for me than Panasonic's LUTS. What I have found is with GC's LUT, I need to do the least amount of work to get the footage to look right from scene to scene:

 

Ground Control Free Rec709 to VLOG LUT

https://groundcontrolcolor.com/products/free-sony-v-log-to-rec-709-lut

 

Noam Kroll Master Pack III

https://cinecolor.io/products/master-pack-iii

 

 

[ntblowz]

On 11/8/2020 at 11:12 PM, stephen said:

You can find S1 second hand with some warranty left for 1500 E/$. So even you have to pay for the V-Log upgrade it is still a very good deal.

Panasonic S5 vs S1. In my opinion it boils down to one or two major differences.

    1. Do you want a smaller lighter camera or not. How important this is to you. How often you will use it on a gimbal ?
    2. Are you planning to record most of the time internally 10bit 4:2:2 or externally to ProRes RAW.

3.Unlimited 4k30p 10bit

4.Better slowmo.

5. 5.9k 10bit internal

 

I think for most people no 1 is quite important.. S1 is just too big for everyday use camera, but for working it is more robust.

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

 

Ground Control Free Rec709 to VLOG LUT

https://groundcontrolcolor.com/products/free-sony-v-log-to-rec-709-lut

 

 

I had people said to me that ground control is for vlog L not full v log, so its not taking advantage of the full 14 stop?

[herein2020]

52 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

I had people said to me that ground control is for vlog L not full v log, so its not taking advantage of the full 14 stop?

All that I can tell you is that I tried the Panasonic conversion LUTs and they looked worse to me than the GC LUT, it is easy to try and see if it will work for you.

[TomTheDP]

The cool thing about the GHAlex luts is that they are specifically designed for the Panasonic S1. He even has individual exposure adjustments for -2, -1, +1 and +2 as color changes when you under or overexpose. Its really comprehensive. Pretty much made for people who want to use a cheaper camera alongside their Alexa as it matches 100% if you are using pure light sources at least. Works out for me as I want Alexa magic without actually owning one lol. 

 

[TomTheDP]

2 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

All that I can tell you is that I tried the Panasonic conversion LUTs and they looked worse to me than the GC LUT, it is easy to try and see if it will work for you.

Yeah Panasonic REC709 luts kinda suck. The Nicest709 is probably there best one. 

[herein2020]

9 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Yeah Panasonic REC709 luts kinda suck. The Nicest709 is probably there best one. 

I don't like Nicest either, but yes it gets the closest out of the ones I tried. Below is a quick LUT comparison. For me Nicest always seems to turn out too dark like I under exposed (maybe I am underexposing?). But GC always seems right the min I apply the LUT.  Only in the last image (Ground Control + Noam Kroll) did I slightly adjust the highlights and shadows.

 

 

 

 

 

  

9 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The cool thing about the GHAlex luts is that they are specifically designed for the Panasonic S1. He even has individual exposure adjustments for -2, -1, +1 and +2 as color changes when you under or overexpose. Its really comprehensive. Pretty much made for people who want to use a cheaper camera alongside their Alexa as it matches 100% if you are using pure light sources at least. Works out for me as I want Alexa magic without actually owning one lol. 

 

 

That does sound pretty cool, I'll see what Noam does with his LUT, if its not as good as the GHAlex one I may buy that one instead.

 

[omega1978]

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I don't like Nicest either, but yes it gets the closest out of the ones I tried. Below is a quick LUT comparison. For me Nicest always seems to turn out too dark like I under exposed (maybe I am underexposing?). But GC always seems right the min I apply the LUT.  Only in the last image (Ground Control + Noam Kroll) did I slightly adjust the highlights and shadows.

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

That does sound pretty cool, I'll see what Noam does with his LUT, if its not as good as the GHAlex one I may buy that one instead.

 

Try this one, is a modified Nicest Lut, is not bad

https://gamut.io/product/v-log-conversion-lut/

 

but the Leeming Lut has more DR and colors are more accurate

 

 

[Mark Romero 2]

On 11/8/2020 at 4:01 AM, SteveV4D said:

Filming is dynamic.  Some of the editing choice verge on the gimmicky...

Someone please tell me that speed ramping is going the way of creative transitions (where people decided to use EVERY transition that was available in their NLE at least once per video).

I'm not the only person who hates speed ramping, am I???

And what was up with the music in that video? Sometimes it was obnoxiously loud, while other times there was no music where a little bit of music would have gone a long way.

[Trankilstef]

On 11/9/2020 at 2:12 PM, MrSMW said:

I posted 'Soul of Tokyo' more as an example of a filmmakers 'review' as in he actually went out and shot a shit ton of material and made a film with it. And not just shot it, but scripted it first so there was intent with most if not all of it. 

Compared with 99 other YouTube reviews which are basically; un-box in purple/blue back-lit room wearing a baseball cap backwards because that's what someone with the initials P.M. does. Or used to do. Quote specs. Go outside and wave it about without even trying to fine-tune any settings. Say the AF is shit (because you have to by international law), then put it back in the box and return to sender before making your next bit of 'content'.

Actually the "Soul of Tokyo" video seems to be a paid Panasonic job cause it's been posted on their channel. I didn't really like this video to be honest (colors are a bit weird at times to me, to much gimmicky shots, etc) but I really feel you about the Youtubers community that just want to be like PMcKinnon, I'm really sick of them (there are a few exceptions though as I'm specifically talking about the PMcKinnon copycats).

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Someone please tell me that speed ramping is going the way of creative transitions (where people decided to use EVERY transition that was available in their NLE at least once per video).

I'm not the only person who hates speed ramping, am I???

And what was up with the music in that video? Sometimes it was obnoxiously loud, while other times there was no music where a little bit of music would have gone a long way.

I'll admit that I still like speed ramping. I do think it is bordering on overdone, but for me its very useful to keep the viewer interested when filming real estate videos. Instead of jump cutting to the other side of the room or wasting precious seconds showing the walk there or down a long hallway, speed ramping is a great way to get there in what I consider a visually pleasing way.  I also use it quite a bit with drone work as well, Long orbits, or long dolly shots get pretty boring so I use it to quickly start with the big picture then jump in closer without jump cutting. When balanced properly and not overused I think its another useful tool in your storytelling belt just like anything else.

I think everyone is speed ramping these days because it is something new that couldn't be done before. You need a lot of elements for a visibly smooth speed ramp (good gimbal, proper technique, a camera that will shoot at least 50/60FPS, and decent editing skills when putting it together in the NLE) so when you pull it off it tends to separate you from the ones that do not have all of those elements.  If this video were anything but a camera promo type video I'd definitely think they used speed ramping too much, but I just enjoyed it for what it was and my personal opinion is that it is well done.

[herein2020]

Did anyone else realize with the S5 that you cannot shoot 4K60FPS 10 bit in H.264? All this time I thought my 4K60FPS clips stored in the MOV container was H.264 but while testing the new Davinci Resolve they all showed up as H.265 and sure enough it only shoots 4K60FPS 10bit using H.265. What is really cool though is Davinci Resolve and Windows 10 can still use HW acceleration because the H.265 codec can be HW accelerated as long as it is 10 bit 4:2:0, so either this was a genius move on Panasonic's part so that people could still edit the footage or a camera HW limitation that happened to align with current HW acceleration capabilities.

The R6 on the other hand shot 10 bit 4:2:2 which cannot be HW accelerated and needed proxies for everything.

 

 

[MrSMW]

Yes, speed ramping or anything and everything like that is a bit gimmicky for my tastes, but as I said previously, I posted not so much to hold this up as the finest piece of filmmaking, but rather at least a whole lot more effort than some of the other stuff out there, ie, using the tool rather than just holding it and babbling about it.

I watched something this morning (I am blaming being back in lockdown boredom) where the guy made so many errors it was clear he had no idea about videography never mind the actual camera. But I digress...

I knew it was .265 and expected it not to play in Premiere on my machine as I had to batch convert to prores with my previous XT3.

But not so, works with zero hiccups other than the occasional ones that are entirely Premiere having one of it’s fits.

No idea why that would be...but then I am the last person to ask technical questions of.