Panasonic S5 User Experience

[omega1978]

14 hours ago, MrSMW said:

@TomTheDP I could attach some lead weights to the bottom of my camera? 😬

But seriously, the massive advantage of using a freestanding monopod, light or heavy set up, is that whilst that is rolling, I can shoot stills at the same time, ie, it’s like having another me with me.

Weight does indeed stabilise, but it also fatigues and for the last couple of years, my filming combo of; monopod, cage, body (XT3 and prior to that XH1) powerbank, adapter, lens, added up to quite a bit to keep picking up and moving one handed for 10+ hours.

I decided to put my money where my mouth is and ordered the Sigma 56mm this afternoon. I don’t need it right now, but need to play/try it and already have a 58mm VND, so also ordered a cheap 55-58mm step up ring.

Body and lens, 1kg / 2.2lbs in American. Mucho lightweight even on the monopod!

In what mount you have order the sigma ?

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, omega1978 said:

In what mount you have order the sigma ?

L

For pretty much most people this would make no sense (using crop lenses on FF bodies) and whilst I moved to the S5 from the XT3 for full frame stills, I will continue shooting 4k 50p for everything with the S5.

Why? Partly so I can slow any piece of footage really easily but also because my focal length for video is mostly anything from 75-150mm in FF terms.

This less than 300g lens gives me 85mm @ f1.4 which for me indoors, is just about perfect and with the full frame Panasonic 85mm f1.8 for outdoor use, I'll get something more like 125-130mm.

A lot of wedding videographers seem to like using a 70-200mm f2.8 for outdoor stuff, especially ceremonies etc, but these are 1-1.5kg lenses. I know I will be happier with the sub 400g 85mm f1.8 (when it arrives) and with 4k, reasonable latitude to punch in further if needs be, ie, I can skip lugging a 70-200 around.

I'm pretty much a prime person anyway and position myself based on certain focal lengths instinctively through use of said focal lengths.

If/when I use zooms, it tends to be as 'twin lens primes', ie, at the wide end or the long end but never anything in between. This is why I was considering the Sigma 50-100mm f1.8 because for my needs, it's a 'twin prime lens' of 75mm and 150mm in FF terms. Except it weights exactly half a ton and then there is still the adaptor to consider... My experience of such weight on a freestanding monopod is the taller it gets, the less stable it becomes and the danger is toppling and just moving it around all day is takes it's toll.

Back to the Sigma 56 though, as far as I am aware, the trinity of; 16, 30 and 56 are the only native L mount APSC crop lenses?

I will get the 16 next Spring, purely for dancing. A 24mm equivalent f1.4 is perfect for that for me and I will probably pick up the 30mm also to complete the trinity, for static evening speeches in the dark other than a few candles, which some clients like to give me to work with!

I will have the 56 in a few days so look forward to testing it. YouTube is full of reviews and tests of this lens on Sony crop bodies and M4/3 bodies but basically nothing on L Mount, but even from the Sony stuff, it looks perfect for my needs.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

As far as I am aware, the trinity of; 16, 30 and 56 are the only native L mount APSC crop lenses?

Leica have a broad range of L mount APS-C primes and zooms.

And, yes, they are as expensive as you might suspect them to be.

If not more actually.

I have the 18-56mm as I needed something with AF for the T/SL for some development work and it performs very well but is obviously pretty slow. 

And even used with some serious haggling it cost me £650, which is a ridiculous price for a "kit" lens.

I had been eyeing the 23mm f2 and waiting for one to come up at a reasonable price but the Sigma primes have killed that notion.

Particularly as you can buy all three of the Sigmas for the price of the Leica and still have a lot of change left.

 

 

[MrSMW]

Ah yes, the expensive and slow crop Leicas 🤑

The Sigmas on the CL however might be interesting for stills...

[MrSMW]

Just went and looked at the CL again.

I had forgotten it existed actually though it was on my radar once for stills.

What put me off at the time was those lenses. And the prices etc. And that I could have an equivalent X Pro2 kit for half the price.

Those 3x f1.4 Sigmas make it a whole lot more interesting but I think if it’s not actually illegal, it’s like crossing the streams putting anything but pure-bred Germanic glass on any Leica? Verboten.

Slightly tempting...but only slightly. I’d rather go X Pro3, but then, I’ve chosen the S5 for a reason.

The ONLY thing that is going to piss me off is if after investing 4 of the things by next Spring...and that is only happening if 2021 is definitely on as a working year, that they announce they are going PDAF. Because used prices will plummet.

Having said that, I have done my maths and the calculation is 3 years working life = 250k turnover of work for a 10k kit investment, so even if I have to chuck them away after 3 years, I will have had my money’s worth.

[BTM_Pix]

49 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Those 3x f1.4 Sigmas make it a whole lot more interesting but I think if it’s not actually illegal, it’s like crossing the streams putting anything but pure-bred Germanic glass on any Leica? Verboten.

All of the Voigtlanders that I use on my Leicas are Japanese so they are German in brand licensing name only and I can safely mount my Chinese made 7Artisans lenses on them without causing an international incident.

Not to mention of course that the majority of my "real" Leica lenses are actually Canadian !

I'd love to have a CL but, yeah, the X-Pro 3 is far more compelling spec wise, though that, of course, is not the only criteria.

I wouldn't back against Sigma coming up with a Bayer sensor APS-C L mount in the near future as well as a Foveon one though.

Incidentally, for anyone looking to get into APS-C L mount in the here and now though, the Leica T is now available used at £300 and I love mine. Its just a pity that the tilting EVF2, which is completely transformational for it operationally, is another 2/3rds of the price on top of that again !

 

[MrSMW]

Just popping down the rabbit hole of eBay used TL2’s.

I shall probably be some time...

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Just popping down the rabbit hole of eBay used TL2’s.

I shall probably be some time...

CEX is often a rewarding destination to hunt for used Leica cameras for some odd reason.

Like this £950 TL2 for example ...

https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail?id=sdigleitl2bobb&categoryName=cameras-compact-system&superCatName=electronics&title=leica-tl2-(body-only)-24m-black-b

[herein2020]

On 11/19/2020 at 7:43 AM, MrSMW said:

 

I've dropped my requirement for hybrid use of a camera on the fly, ie, flicking back and forth between stills and video...and instead, having identical hybrid camera bodies, but they are going to be designated either; photo, filming, video or hybrid.

S5 + Panasonic 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 for static (tripod) video but also as my wide angle stills lens/unit...which is convenient as the only time I need this function is when I'm not recording video, ie, this combo will be the only true hybrid use. But also not really because those times are different, though all on the same day.

I have given up on the idea of a single body for both photos and video as well, mainly because I need a battery grip for photos because I shoot 90% of them in a portrait orientation but the battery grip would not work with the video cage and because I don't use native L mount lenses so there is no continuous AF in my setup. Also, a lot of times I need the video camera on a tripod while also taking images handheld so that still requires two bodies. 

If I ever get back to taking trips I definitely would feel comfortable taking a single S5 for both photos and video. 

I could never use the 20-60mm for much, the variable aperture was so annoying even for the few days that I had to wait for the EF mount adapter to show up. For now I've pretty much given up on L mount lenses, the free 45mm Sigma showed up and I've never even bothered attaching it to the camera. getting the Sigma EF mount adapter off is too much of a PITA to even bother trying the Sigma 45mm L mount lens.

So for the work I do it looks like my lens lineup will be as follows:

 

Gimbal work -  Canon EF 24mm F2.8

Handheld Detail Shots - Sigma EF 50mm F1.8

General Purpose Handheld/Monopod/Tripod - Canon EF 24-105mm F4

Wide Angle - Canon EF 16-35mm F4

 

For scenarios that I do not yet predict I also have the Canon EF 24-70 F2.8, the Sigma EF-S 18-35 F1.8, and the Canon 70-200 F2.8 if needed. 

[Mark Romero 2]

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

Handheld Detail Shots - Sigma EF 50mm F1.8

Maybe a typo? Probably meant to write f/1.4 minstead of f/1.8 I thin.

[herein2020]

19 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Maybe a typo? Probably meant to write f/1.4 minstead of f/1.8 I thin.

You are correct, I rarely go below 2.8 with it so I forget sometimes just how fast that lens is.

[Mark Romero 2]

On 11/21/2020 at 7:48 PM, herein2020 said:

Canon EF 24-105mm F4

How do you like the Canon EF 24-105mm F4 on the S5? Are you using the first version or the II version?

[IronFilm]

On 11/11/2020 at 5:56 AM, herein2020 said:

I'll admit that I still like speed ramping. I do think it is bordering on overdone, but for me its very useful to keep the viewer interested when filming real estate videos. Instead of jump cutting to the other side of the room or wasting precious seconds showing the walk there or down a long hallway, speed ramping is a great way to get there in what I consider a visually pleasing way.  I also use it quite a bit with drone work as well, Long orbits, or long dolly shots get pretty boring so I use it to quickly start with the big picture then jump in closer without jump cutting. When balanced properly and not overused I think its another useful tool in your storytelling belt just like anything else.

I think everyone is speed ramping these days because it is something new that couldn't be done before. You need a lot of elements for a visibly smooth speed ramp (good gimbal, proper technique, a camera that will shoot at least 50/60FPS, and decent editing skills when putting it together in the NLE) so when you pull it off it tends to separate you from the ones that do not have all of those elements.  If this video were anything but a camera promo type video I'd definitely think they used speed ramping too much, but I just enjoyed it for what it was and my personal opinion is that it is well done.

 

Something else to remember is that for us who spend half our lives browsing forums / YouTube videos, watching these speed ramp effects very quickly feels "over done" as we've been seeing it daily for ages and ages now. 

But for your average viewer of a random Real Estate video? They do not get that same feeling at all, they see it through totally different eyes to ourselves. 

If you show a random new acquaintance a video you did with a drone shot in it, they still go "wow" a little to it in response. Even though to us, drone shots are waaaaaaaaaay older and passé. 

 

[Mark Romero 2]

For S5 (and S1-series owners), the new firmware update is out. Ver 2.0 for S5 owners, Ver. 2.2 for S1H owners, and version 1.6 for us owners of the S1 and S1R cameras.

https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/index4.html

[herein2020]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 

Something else to remember is that for us who spend half our lives browsing forums / YouTube videos, watching these speed ramp effects very quickly feels "over done" as we've been seeing it daily for ages and ages now. 

But for your average viewer of a random Real Estate video? They do not get that same feeling at all, they see it through totally different eyes to ourselves. 

If you show a random new acquaintance a video you did with a drone shot in it, they still go "wow" a little to it in response. Even though to us, drone shots are waaaaaaaaaay older and passé. 

 

Very true, actually, when you think about it, unless you are watching camera reviews, or sample gimbal and drone footage, the average viewer could easily never encounter the speed ramp effect. Even the real estate videographers in my area aren't really doing them.  I've gotten countless new clients for big real estate projects that say they want a video just like I did for xyz customer and almost 9/10 times speed ramping was involved.

I do think camera reviewers tend to overuse it but I also think real estate is one of those types of projects that its perfect for. No one wants to see 15s of you walking down a long hallway, or 2min for a drone to dolly into the target property, speed ramping is an elegant way to still show a particular direction without wasting the viewer's time and is less jarring than a jump cut

[Lux Shots]

On 11/12/2020 at 2:50 PM, SteveV4D said:

If I was building a number of cameras from Panasonic fullframe alone, I would have a S1H, S1 and S5...  each offering their own advantages.

However I am looking at one hybrid to balance the Pockets I own, which because of RAW and my preference for BM colour, work the best for the image I am going for.   

I am looking to add maybe the C70 or Komodo or if BM offer something similar, plus a fullframe hybrid next year.  Unless Canon can deliver a decent spec reliable hybrid camera 🤣🤣, my money is more on the S1.  The 6K upgrade would be very useful in some occasions and I prefer bigger cameras to smaller ones.   Plus full-size HDMI is important for any streaming or connection to playback screens which I have sometimes been required to do.

I had the S5. I traded it with someone for the S1. With the 5.9K internal and ProRes RAW coming next year, it was a no brainer for me.

[SteveV4D]

3 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Very true, actually, when you think about it, unless you are watching camera reviews, or sample gimbal and drone footage, the average viewer could easily never encounter the speed ramp effect. 

I do think camera reviewers tend to overuse it.

Nothing wrong with speed ramping.  I use it myself.  However if overused without context, it can seem unnecessary.  As in the video that was posted above.  When you notice the editing style more than the content, then it becomes a gimmick and it doesn't matter if its a corporate video or a personal video you've put out for others to see.  

Same can be true of drone footage, slider footage, gimbal footage, jib footage..  all have their places in video content and techniques, but all can be guilty of be used as a gimmick in some videos.

[MrSMW]

I personally am getting a little tired of drone and it’s a PITA on a wedding day, but it’s the one thing folks ask before booking, “do you have a drone?”.

As for the rest of it, I don’t do it anyway, partly out of stylistic choices and partly because as a one man hybrid band, only so much technique I can manage anyway!

In other news, my Sigma 56mm f1.4 turned up today.

What a little beauty. Small but chunky, a nice weight to it but still light.

It reminds me in some ways of the Canon ef 50mm f1.8 I used to use in 2018 as my primary lens.

Not used it yet, but I think I am going to love it and that’s one more item checked off.

This is one of the beauties of starting a new system from scratch, - everything is new.

Currently weighing up the dilemma of:

A: Sigma 45mm f2.8 (free lens) with Sigma 105mm f2.8 plus 1.4 teleconverter for when I need something longer. This is the cheaper, lighter but slower option for stills using 2x S5 bodies,

vs

B: Sigma 35mm plus 85mm plus 105mm, all fast low light f1.4 beasts, but it’s an expensive option compared to option A and the 105 is an utter beast of a lens at over 1.5kg, but arguably one of the finest portraiture lenses available. 3 lenses with 2x S5 bodies swapping out the 85 as an indoor lens and the 105 as my outdoor.

I am currently leaning towards option A based on; price, size & weight.

[herein2020]

23 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

How do you like the Canon EF 24-105mm F4 on the S5? Are you using the first version or the II version?

I am using version II and honestly its not great. Its not a very fast lens so I mostly use it during daylight and outdoors only but the worst part about it is it won't hold its focal length if you point it up or down unless you hold onto the lens barrel. This isn't a big deal for photography but for video its really annoying having to hold the ring to keep the front element from sliding in or out, with a little more friction it would be way better.

I still like the range though and as long as you hold the camera level it works well and is definitely sharp enough, it also has a good weight to it which helps for hand held shots.  If I did not already own it though I definitely would not buy it for the S5. Its a great walkaround photography lens, but even then it should really have a barrel lock to keep the extension in the barrel when not in use.

On a tripod though its perfect, it could be used at the back of a conference or other event like that.  My favorite two lenses so far are the 50mm and 24mm primes.

13 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

For S5 (and S1-series owners), the new firmware update is out. Ver 2.0 for S5 owners, Ver. 2.2 for S1H owners, and version 1.6 for us owners of the S1 and S1R cameras.

https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/index4.html

That is good news I'm going to update today, I've been missing the shutter angle feature in the GH5. I do wish they would add false color capability though, it would be much easier to do it on set vs in Davinci Resolve like I am doing now.

[Mark Romero 2]

11 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

I am using version II and honestly its not great...

Thanks for sharing your experience. I really appreciate it.

I actually own the panasonic 24-105 f/4, and while it isn't particularly sexy, it is a pretty darn good lens. I had been looking at maybe selling it and getting the FIRST version of the Canon EF 24-105 and then using the leftover money (if any) to maybe buy another lens (like EF 40mm f/2.8 or EF 85mm f/1.8), but it sounds like just keeping the Panasonic 24-105 f/4 might just be the best thing.

The main problem with the Panasonic 24-105 f/4 is that it is too pedestrian to LOVE, and too competent to HATE.