Panasonic S5 User Experience

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Thpriest said:

This is how I work. Unless you are doing really high end stuff nobody pays enough to grade everything and many times it's just not necessary.

Yup. I have no one to please but myself and if I please myself, then I please my clients as that is what they booked me for and what they are paying me for...even if they have not thought of it this way, it's what I am doing, ie, zero client brief other than what I normally do.

It's also the reason why I mostly do weddings and less commercial. Commercial clients tend to be picky picky picky and that sucks the life out of it for me.

 

[zerocool22]

What about the Sound Rec Level Limiter. Do you guys leave it on while hooking up a lav system to your s5?

[MrSMW]

-6db for me as a default...but then I do not confess to being an expert at sound. Or anything. 

[herein2020]

7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Raw for stills and Natural for video.

I just tried log again today, back to back with the Natural profile and nah, it just confirmed that log still is not for me.

Maybe in someone else’s hands maybe but my tweaked settings version of the Natural profile looked better SOOC than anything and everything I tried with the log version of ‘the same’ footage.

Because 90% of my work is hybrid, I start with the stills and have created an import preset unique to me. No you can’t buy or have it, it’s mine 😘

I’m 90-100% there with most pics straight away and it’s only minor fiddling with each from that point onward, then hi res Jpeg export and I am done.

For the video side of things, I made a .cube LUT or whatever it’s called, from a typical stills image and I slap that onto an adjustment layer over my entire footage at 25% intensity and as a creative LUT.

I then fiddle with the clips so they look like I want them to look et voilà, finito, export a 4K version and the stills and video match as closely as they are ever going to.

I enjoy ‘editing’ almost as much as I do shooting but I don’t want to spend much time on it so I always:

A: shoot with intent in the first place

B: try and get it as right in camera as poss

C. only spend the time necessary to finish what has mostly already been achieved at the time of capture.

KISS 💋

I'll admit, I love VLOG, couldn't imagine shooting any other profile and I'm all about KISS as well. Seeing that WFM show an entire scene within the DR of the sensor makes my smile every time. In post it literally takes me seconds to color grade each clip.  I use pretty much the same starting settings in Davinci Resolve:

I create 3 nodes:

Primaries, Curves, Skin. I disable the Curves and Skin nodes and add a false color LUT to the skin node. I then set Contrast to 1.17 and Saturation to 100%.  I then pull down the Lift until it just touches off of zero and push up the Gain until it just touches below 1023. If the scene has people in it, I then enable the false color LUT and check for skin exposure. I make slight adjustments to the Lift, Gamma, and Gain until the skin has the exposure I want then I disable the Skin node.

I then create a color grade still and use that for every clip with a similar scene. I typically just have to make very slight adjustments to the Lift and Gain from clip to clip depending on the highlights, shadows, and lighting on the skin. After I have graded each clip I then add an adjustment clip over the whole project and apply a creative grade to the adjustment clip for the whole project which ties together the different cameras and gives the project the same feel throughout the video.

For me the biggest benefit of VLOG is being able to recover from just about any lighting condition and matching other cameras such as drone cameras etc. 

  

4 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

What about the Sound Rec Level Limiter. Do you guys leave it on while hooking up a lav system to your s5?

 

I don't use it with the XLR module. I do use it with the shotgun video mic. When I'm using the XLR audio module I have time to do a mic test and tune the input levels. With the video mic going into the mic port its a free for all picking up natural audio so I have no idea what levels I could run into.

 

[zerocool22]

6 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I'll admit, I love VLOG, couldn't imagine shooting any other profile and I'm all about KISS as well. Seeing that WFM show an entire scene within the DR of the sensor makes my smile every time. In post it literally takes me seconds to color grade each clip.  I use pretty much the same starting settings in Davinci Resolve:

I create 3 nodes:

Primaries, Curves, Skin. I disable the Curves and Skin nodes and add a false color LUT to the skin node. I then set Contrast to 1.17 and Saturation to 100%.  I then pull down the Lift until it just touches off of zero and push up the Gain until it just touches below 1023. If the scene has people in it, I then enable the false color LUT and check for skin exposure. I make slight adjustments to the Lift, Gamma, and Gain until the skin has the exposure I want then I disable the Skin node.

I then create a color grade still and use that for every clip with a similar scene. I typically just have to make very slight adjustments to the Lift and Gain from clip to clip depending on the highlights, shadows, and lighting on the skin. After I have graded each clip I then add an adjustment clip over the whole project and apply a creative grade to the adjustment clip for the whole project which ties together the different cameras and gives the project the same feel throughout the video.

For me the biggest benefit of VLOG is being able to recover from just about any lighting condition and matching other cameras such as drone cameras etc. 

  

 

I don't use it with the XLR module. I do use it with the shotgun video mic. When I'm using the XLR audio module I have time to do a mic test and tune the input levels. With the video mic going into the mic port its a free for all picking up natural audio so I have no idea what levels I could run into.

 

But when shooting 4k 8bit v-log doesnt makes sense right? Back in the gh4 days there was some hate on the 8bit v-log.

[Mofalck]

21 hours ago, Thpriest said:

Maybe it's a problem with the software, not the photo. 

You are quite right! Phew! Thanks

[elgabogomez]

On 4/17/2021 at 11:38 AM, zerocool22 said:

I need to shoot a bunch of interviews (3 hours in total) but if I shoot C4K 10bit 422 25fps longgop I only get 30mins on a 256GB card. In FHD 10bit 422 longgop I get over 5 hours on a 256GB. I have not checked with the client if FHD is sufficient. But I guess this is the best solution, or does anybody else recommend something else? (Like C4K 8bit)

 

Thanks,

Something is wrong with those recording times, on a 128gb card I get around 40 minutes of c4k 10bit all-i on the s1h, that is 400mb per second. On a 64gb card I get an hour and 10 minutes on an a7 s2 and that is uhd 4k 100mb per second (long gop, 8bit).

Surely 150mb per second should give you close to the 3 hours you seek on a 256gb card.

[elgabogomez]

On 4/17/2021 at 11:38 AM, zerocool22 said:

 

[Geoffrey]

My S5 has developed a major fault, or at least I think so: the monitor screen is now upside down and no matter how I adjust the monitor display settings, the screen view never flips (I assume that 'Auto' for both default vertical and horizontal flip is the best setting but I have now tried all combinations).

I can invert the vertical view by setting the flip to On rather than Auto and it changes to the correct orientation but then no flipping occurs by default. Basically the monitor is stuck in no flipping mode, and upside down. I think it happened after I (correctly disconnected the camera from my laptop (USB). I updated the firmware to 2.2 but that didn't help.

Anyone had this issue? I can see no way to fix it and it looks like I need to get back to the seller asap to return the camera.

[zerocool22]

I use boost IS, have not tested it on a gymbal/slider though. Would that work great?

[Thpriest]

4 hours ago, Geoffrey said:

My S5 has developed a major fault, or at least I think so: the monitor screen is now upside down and no matter how I adjust the monitor display settings, the screen view never flips (I assume that 'Auto' for both default vertical and horizontal flip is the best setting but I have now tried all combinations).

I can invert the vertical view by setting the flip to On rather than Auto and it changes to the correct orientation but then no flipping occurs by default. Basically the monitor is stuck in no flipping mode, and upside down. I think it happened after I (correctly disconnected the camera from my laptop (USB). I updated the firmware to 2.2 but that didn't help.

Anyone had this issue? I can see no way to fix it and it looks like I need to get back to the seller asap to return the camera.

Shit, that sound bad. Sounds like my Samsung phone!😵

[ac6000cw]

On 4/20/2021 at 5:55 PM, elgabogomez said:

Something is wrong with those recording times, on a 128gb card I get around 40 minutes of c4k 10bit all-i on the s1h, that is 400mb per second. On a 64gb card I get an hour and 10 minutes on an a7 s2 and that is uhd 4k 100mb per second (long gop, 8bit).

Surely 150mb per second should give you close to the 3 hours you seek on a 256gb card.

AFAIK, some S5 10-bit modes have a 30 minute limit per clip, but 8-bit doesn't.

[herein2020]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:53 AM, zerocool22 said:

But when shooting 4k 8bit v-log doesnt makes sense right? Back in the gh4 days there was some hate on the 8bit v-log.

 

I have never had a problem with 8 bit. To me they are nearly identical to the eye except in certain lighting scenarios. The main thing that I know 10bit gives you is the ability to push the mids which is where skin tones usually sit without losing color as fast as 8bit. My C200 only has 8bit and CLOG3 combined with 8bit still looks as good to me as the S5 with VLOG and 10bit.

 

On 4/20/2021 at 12:55 PM, elgabogomez said:

Something is wrong with those recording times, on a 128gb card I get around 40 minutes of c4k 10bit all-i on the s1h, that is 400mb per second. On a 64gb card I get an hour and 10 minutes on an a7 s2 and that is uhd 4k 100mb per second (long gop, 8bit).

Surely 150mb per second should give you close to the 3 hours you seek on a 256gb card.

As @ac6000cw stated, the S5 has a built in 30min recording limit for the 10bit modes. I believe this is to control overheating. It does let you start recording again right away, but if you need unbroken recording times longer than 30min you have to use 8bit.

[Geoffrey]

My camera is going to be returned for fixing due to the fault mentioned above but I have another issue I wanted to ask of V-Log users. I have tried this profile but beyond the expected very flat look is it supposed to be so noisy in its raw state? When I switch to V-log profile in the camera, the image is incredibly noisy and grainy and this is really obvious, even on the monitor screen. Is this normal? Looking at tutorials online, the V-log footage does not look noisy to me at all, though the shots I took were in fairly low light but other colour profiles had very little noise in the same light. Other colour profiles do however produce quite a bit of image flickering in low (artificial) light (especially were text is involved). So I am wondering if there is another problem with my camera. 

[mercer]

10 hours ago, Geoffrey said:

My camera is going to be returned for fixing due to the fault mentioned above but I have another issue I wanted to ask of V-Log users. I have tried this profile but beyond the expected very flat look is it supposed to be so noisy in its raw state? When I switch to V-log profile in the camera, the image is incredibly noisy and grainy and this is really obvious, even on the monitor screen. Is this normal? Looking at tutorials online, the V-log footage does not look noisy to me at all, though the shots I took were in fairly low light but other colour profiles had very little noise in the same light. Other colour profiles do however produce quite a bit of image flickering in low (artificial) light (especially were text is involved). So I am wondering if there is another problem with my camera. 

Log profiles will be noisier than standard Rec709 profiles. Those profiles have sharpening and noise reduction built into the picture profile. With that said, shooting in lowlight with a log profile can be a waste of time. The point of a log profile is to maximize dynamic range. If you're shooting in lowlight the range of available light is drastically minimized. So if you want to shoot log in lowlight, you either need to introduce more light or raise your ISO. Since log profiles are built around a curve, it's good to know how the curve works, so you can expose for the curve, or you can ETTR (expose to the right) and then pull down your exposure in post. That should take care of the noise.

As far as the flickering, what hertz setting do you have your camera set to?

[Geoffrey]

4 minutes ago, mercer said:

Log profiles will be noisier than standard Rec709 profiles. Those profiles have sharpening and noise reduction built into the picture profile. With that said, shooting in lowlight with a log profile can be a waste of time. The point of a log profile is to maximize dynamic range. If you're shooting in lowlight the range of available light is drastically minimized. So if you want to shoot log in lowlight, you either need to introduce more light or raise your ISO. Since log profiles are built around a curve, it's good to know how the curve works, so you can expose for the curve, or you can ETTR (expose to the right) and then pull down your exposure in post. That should take care of the noise.

As far as the flickering, what hertz setting do you have your camera set to?

Thanks for the reply mercer - I have a lot to learn about V-Log I think. It might not be for me but I was drawn to it because the flickering I mentioned did not occur when I shot log. Can you set the Herz rating of the S5? I cannot find anything about that. I am PAL land so use 25 / 50p  I did wonder if the problem was due to the artificial light - not fluorescent though, LED standard (modern) lightbulbs.

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, Geoffrey said:

Thanks for the reply mercer - I have a lot to learn about V-Log I think. It might not be for me but I was drawn to it because the flickering I mentioned did not occur when I shot log. Can you set the Herz rating of the S5? I cannot find anything about that. I am PAL land so use 25 / 50p  I did wonder if the problem was due to the artificial light - not fluorescent though, LED standard (modern) lightbulbs.

No problem. I'm unsure about the S5's hertz settings. I know there were some issues with other Panasonic cameras when you set to true 24p but since you're set to Pal/25p I don't think that should be the problem then. Are you noticing the flickering with all lettering, or just on letters/numbers on electronics?

vLog is a nice profile and since the S5 uses the full log profile, it should be pretty good. But Panasonic has a couple nice profiles that can be a bit more forgiving and still offer a bump in dynamic range. I always liked Noam Kroll's settings for CineLikeD and Like709 seems to be pretty nice as well.

But don't give up on VLog yet. The S5 has Dual Native ISO, so if you set to the higher ISO in lowlight, then that should help with the noise. Then you can either stop down, or use an ND to lower your exposure. 

[Geoffrey]

31 minutes ago, mercer said:

No problem. I'm unsure about the S5's hertz settings. I know there were some issues with other Panasonic cameras when you set to true 24p but since you're set to Pal/25p I don't think that should be the problem then. Are you noticing the flickering with all lettering, or just on letters/numbers on electronics?

vLog is a nice profile and since the S5 uses the full log profile, it should be pretty good. But Panasonic has a couple nice profiles that can be a bit more forgiving and still offer a bump in dynamic range. I always liked Noam Kroll's settings for CineLikeD and Like709 seems to be pretty nice as well.

But don't give up on VLog yet. The S5 has Dual Native ISO, so if you set to the higher ISO in lowlight, then that should help with the noise. Then you can either stop down, or use an ND to lower your exposure. 

Yeah will persevere yet with V-Log - I need to learn about it really as I am quite ignorant of how to use it properly. I will need to work out a simple workflow for it to be useable for me but that seems possible from casual research. I like Like709 and CineLikeD though - are Noam Kroll's settings available somewhere?

The flickering is on non-electronic text and can even be seen in high contrast areas generally. Here are a couple of short clips both FHD 50p 8-bit.

The first shows the flickering though it is hardly noticeable on my laptop screen but is on a larger external screen (I tried a couple, Samsung and LG LED,  and it was the same). I tried various picture profiles, image stabiliser on/off, autofocus on/off and none of that made much difference.

And using V-Log which does not flicker

 

[ac6000cw]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:48 PM, Geoffrey said:

Yeah will persevere yet with V-Log - I need to learn about it really as I am quite ignorant of how to use it properly. I will need to work out a simple workflow for it to be useable for me but that seems possible from casual research. I like Like709 and CineLikeD though - are Noam Kroll's settings available somewhere?

The flickering is on non-electronic text and can even be seen in high contrast areas generally. Here are a couple of short clips both FHD 50p 8-bit.

The first shows the flickering though it is hardly noticeable on my laptop screen but is on a larger external screen (I tried a couple, Samsung and LG LED,  and it was the same). I tried various picture profiles, image stabiliser on/off, autofocus on/off and none of that made much difference.

Just a quick thought - have you tried setting 'i.Dynamic Range' to off (or low)? (in the 'Photo' -> 'Image Quality' menu, but also applies to video - see page 353 of the user guide)

It's disabled automatically in the V-Log/Like709/HLG etc. modes.

I'm not an S5 user, but I know from experience with the G series Lumix cameras that 'i.Dynamic Range' can make low-light video look a bit noisy/flickery (so the usual recommendation is to set it to off or low).

[IronFilm]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:57 PM, herein2020 said:

Personally, I've always found audio the most difficult part of videography, between placing the mics, dealing with room treatment or lack thereof, trying to keep the audio from peaking, trying to keep the mic from rubbing against clothing, trying to block ambient noises like the wind; etc......its very obvious why it is a whole specialty in and of itself.

Could you imagine that there are some twisted weirdos out there who enjoy this???