Panasonic S5 User Experience

[Mark Romero 2]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:08 PM, herein2020 said:

 

I now shoot 95% of my handheld footage with the Sigma EF 50mm F1.4. That is by far my favorite lens although things do get tight sometimes due to the crop when I am shooting 4K60FPS, I couldn't imagine a 65mm. 

I was a big believer in the MP doesn't matter theme and even briefly owned the Canon R6 with only 20MP, but the part no one really talks about is when you need to crop and recompose your shot. Its easy for people to say just get closer or fill the frame with your subject, but when your lens is not long enough and you are shooting events where you cannot get closer to the subject, that extra MP really helps as you are forced to do some pretty extreme cropping. I end up stuck in some of the worst places imaginable yet still need to get a good shot of the speaker, or runway walk, or the crowd and sometimes every MP counts.

I am pretty jealous that you are able to go all in one one system, I am still stuck in nowhere land but such is life. 

I definitely think you should keep trying the VLOG footage and maybe while you are at it try Davinci Resolve over the winter. No more Adobe subscription for me and color grading is so much better. DR 17 is truly an incredible platform, and each update just makes it even better. Once they fix the Fusion integration it truly will be the complete package. I got so sick of the Adobe subscription that I learned the basics of DR in one week and have never looked back.

I shot my first Boudoir video recently with the S5; VLOG really let me push and pull the colors to get every scene to look exactly the way I wanted. It also let me shoot at ISO4000 and get really clean blacks without falling apart at the highlights, and the highlight rolloff is so much nicer than any of the built in profiles IMO (NSFW, 18+ only):

 

 

Darn, the only models I'm allowed to shoot are airplanes 😞

[IronFilm]

On 10/23/2021 at 5:47 AM, herein2020 said:

I actually went for the high key look on purpose for the daylight portion. I wanted it to look very average plus I was also doing a full photo shoot with the model as well so that she had footage she could post so the goals were mainly high key look and BTS feel for the photo shoot/daylight portion. I also wanted to set up that very average look and feel so that the night portion would have more impact.

Maybe a tighter video edit (especially in the first half) could be worth considering?

As I could imagine some people might stop watching before the half way point, and never get the "wow" moment when seeing the second half that's done in a very different manner. 

[Mark Romero 2]

Does a Ninja V make sense for an S5 for a Resolve User on Windows?

Since the S5 has a 30-minute time limit (and no internal 5.9K), wondering if a Ninja 5 at around $600 (with an AngelBird 2TB miniSSD) makes sense or not.

I mostly do real estate videos (on a gimbal) but also trying to do more corporate interviews and small commercial businesses. S5 would I imagine be the B Cam to my S1.

Or will the Ninja V just end up sitting on the shelf???

I know one or two users of this forum have mentioned that ProRes HQ looks better than the internal codec.

But I couldn't take advantage of ProRes RAW with windows and DaVinci Resolve.

And, obviously, can't record BRAW on the Ninja V.

What would I spend the money on if I DON'T buy the Ninja V, you ask?

Probably a wide angle APS-C lens for shooting 4K 60p.

1) Any real benefit to shooting corporate videos in 10-bit 4K with no time limit?

2) Any real benefit to shooting corporate interviews in 5.9K for panning / cropping in post? I would have a B cam anyway, Plus I already have a portkeys 5" hdmi monitor that is 1,500 NITS (but isn't a recorder) 

3) Any real-world image-quality benefits? (I am already pretty happy with the internal V-LOG for real estate but if shooting in ProRes HQ would allow me to get better shadows, then maybe it is worth it?

4) Since I don't plan on going to a Mac (nor PremierePro) any time soon, should I just wait until people start selling Blackmagic Design Video Assist 12G recorders used? 

[stephen]

50 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Does a Ninja V make sense for an S5 for a Resolve User on Windows?

It does only if you need:
                - external monitor
                - better, faster codec for editing
                - 4K 60p unlimited

In terms of picture quality can't see any difference. Both internal 10bit 4:2:2 h264 and external 10bit 4:2:2 ProRes have the same dynamic range and colors.

S5 can shoot 5.9K internal but with time limit and in 10bit 4:2:0 h265. This codec is difficult for editing, so I never use it. 4K is good enough for me.

I had the Ninja and found the round trip from Final Cut to Resolve time consuming and cumbersome. So after Panasonic gave us BRAW external, sold the Ninja V and bought Blackmagic Video Assist 12g 5''. In BRAW color science is slightly different , Panasonic provides second color space conversion LUT additional to the one that does V-Log , V-Gamut -> Rec 709. Colors are slightly better, richer and you get the ability to set White Balance in post. For me 10bit internal recording is good enough most of the times. But have this maximalist kind of "Only the best is good enough" mentality. 😀 So I often use Video Assist and like it very much. First because I like having a bigger external monitor with cage and top handle. It makes my shots and camera movements smoother, better and easier. And second I  like the extra flexibility in post (set white balance in post mostly). If I have to be nimble and don't want to draw too much attention, Blackmagic Video Assist stays in my bag and there is only a small cable hanging from the camera. Or simply shoot internally.

If you have the Ninja V, just try if a small rig with Ninja V on top, or just the monitor on top is OK for you. And ideally rent Video Assist for a weekend if you can. I have found that trying equipment myself is critical and has no substitute. No amount of reviews or advice from colleagues can help me make a decision better, then trying it myself. We are different and have different needs.

Found both Panasonic S1 and S5 second hand at a very good prices (around 1100 Euro per camera) So now have both and like them both 😀

[Mark Romero 2]

34 minutes ago, stephen said:

It does only if you need:
                - external monitor
                - better, faster codec for editing
                - 4K 60p unlimited

In terms of picture quality can't see any difference. Both internal 10bit 4:2:2 h264 and external 10bit 4:2:2 ProRes have the same dynamic range and colors.

S5 can shoot 5.9K internal but with time limit and in 10bit 4:2:0 h265. This codec is difficult for editing, so I never use it. 4K is good enough for me.

I had the Ninja and found the round trip from Final Cut to Resolve time consuming and cumbersome. So after Panasonic gave us BRAW external, sold the Ninja V and bought Blackmagic Video Assist 12g 5''. In BRAW color science is slightly different , Panasonic provides second color space conversion LUT additional to the one that does V-Log , V-Gamut -> Rec 709. Colors are slightly better, richer and you get the ability to set White Balance in post. For me 10bit internal recording is good enough most of the times. But have this maximalist kind of "Only the best is good enough" mentality. 😀 So I often use Video Assist and like it very much. First because I like having a bigger external monitor with cage and top handle. It makes my shots and camera movements smoother, better and easier. And second I  like the extra flexibility in post (set white balance in post mostly). If I have to be nimble and don't want to draw too much attention, Blackmagic Video Assist stays in my bag and there is only a small cable hanging from the camera. Or simply shoot internally.

If you have the Ninja V, just try if a small rig with Ninja V on top, or just the monitor on top is OK for you. And ideally rent Video Assist for a weekend if you can. I have found that trying equipment myself is critical and has no substitute. No amount of reviews or advice from colleagues can help me make a decision better, then trying it myself. We are different and have different needs.

Found both Panasonic S1 and S5 second hand at a very good prices (around 1100 Euro per camera) So now have both and like them both 😀

Thanks for sharing your experience. I really appreciate that.

Most of the time, I don't even use the 5-inch HDMI monitor I have already, so I am thinking I would find it a pain to use the Ninja V. To be honest, I don't think I would like to add a cage and top handle. I really like small cameras (like my Sony aps-c cameras and my Olympus E-M1 MK II). 

[Beritar]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

S5 can shoot 5.9K internal but with time limit and in 10bit 4:2:0 h265. This codec is difficult for editing, so I never use it. 4K is good enough for me.

 

Sadly, S5 is limited to 5K internal, this is the "6K" photo mode but the resolution is "only" 5184x3456 with no way to use things "like IBIS Boost". Only the S1 can do 6K and 5,9K internal.

[projectwoofer]

2 minutes ago, Beritar said:

Sadly, S5 is limited to 5K internal, this is the "6K" photo mode but the resolution is "only" 5184x3456 with no way to use things "like IBIS Boost". Only the S1 can do 6K and 5,9K internal.

Yeah, more like 5.2K. I’m using this function when I want to be able to crop or pan afterwards in post. Sadly it’s only limited to 30fps but nevertheless a useful feature. 

[Mark Romero 2]

7 hours ago, Beritar said:

Sadly, S5 is limited to 5K internal, this is the "6K" photo mode but the resolution is "only" 5184x3456 with no way to use things "like IBIS Boost". Only the S1 can do 6K and 5,9K internal.

 

7 hours ago, projectwoofer said:

Yeah, more like 5.2K. I’m using this function when I want to be able to crop or pan afterwards in post. Sadly it’s only limited to 30fps but nevertheless a useful feature. 

Thanks for the responses.

Yeah, I don't really understand why Panasonic calls it 6K photo mode...

Why can't they just call it 5.2K video mode?

Are they worried that some photographers are so "anti-video" that they will never use it?

[MrSMW]

It’s a weird one for sure…

[Geoffrey]

Simple question, in Movie mode what does the P (in a box) to the right of MF on the LCD mean (also get it with AFS but not AFC which displays the AFC type instead)? I have scoured the manual and come up with nothing. 

[Geoffrey]

On 5/4/2021 at 5:01 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Here's an Autofocus Tip that I totally didn't realize...

Apparently you are supposed to "confirm" AF tracking using the joystick or touch screen. (OK, maybe not PERFECT but looks better than usual.)

Hmmm... maybe I SHOULD read the manual for expensive pieces of equipment...

 

I tried this but I cannot get any special yellow tabs to appear. I am not sure what this video is saying. Yes you can select a human target to focus on when there is more than one but of there is only one the box turns yellow (if it works) and that's it. At least that is my experience. Anyone else watched this video and got what he describes to actually happen - what do you press to get the tabs to appear anyway, he doesn't make that clear.

[Mark Romero 2]

26 minutes ago, Geoffrey said:

Simple question, in Movie mode what does the P (in a box) to the right of MF on the LCD mean (also get it with AFS but not AFC which displays the AFC type instead)? I have scoured the manual and come up with nothing. 

About 90% sure it means Focus Peaking.

[Mark Romero 2]

25 minutes ago, Geoffrey said:

I tried this but I cannot get any special yellow tabs to appear. I am not sure what this video is saying. Yes you can select a human target to focus on when there is more than one but of there is only one the box turns yellow (if it works) and that's it. At least that is my experience. Anyone else watched this video and got what he describes to actually happen - what do you press to get the tabs to appear anyway, he doesn't make that clear.

This is to CONFIRM what you want tracked. It only works in a couple of focus modes as far as I know: 

Human / Animal Detect AF

Tracking

I thought it worked when using 1-area or 1-area + when combined with Human detect, but it seems inconsistent... Maybe it is because I am using an adapted Canon EF lens on the MC-21.

The way you confirm the focus is to either 1) press the joystick inwards (into the camera body), or 2) use your finger to tap in the yellow AF box on the screen. If you tap on the screen OUTSIDE of the yellow box, it won't confirm tracking. Instead, it will MOVE the AF box to where you tapped.

At least this is how it works for me.

[Geoffrey]

45 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

This is to CONFIRM what you want tracked. It only works in a couple of focus modes as far as I know: 

Human / Animal Detect AF

Tracking

I thought it worked when using 1-area or 1-area + when combined with Human detect, but it seems inconsistent... Maybe it is because I am using an adapted Canon EF lens on the MC-21.

The way you confirm the focus is to either 1) press the joystick inwards (into the camera body), or 2) use your finger to tap in the yellow AF box on the screen. If you tap on the screen OUTSIDE of the yellow box, it won't confirm tracking. Instead, it will MOVE the AF box to where you tapped.

At least this is how it works for me.

Yes I mean in human / animal mode. I have tried this but not had any joy but then I have found once the yellow box appears it works anyway (but the suggestion in the video is it could work better). It is almost impossible to test without another human subject but I have a shoot on Thursday. Have you used the method when there is only one subject so nothing to choose from?

[Geoffrey]

59 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

About 90% sure it means Focus Peaking.

Yep that's it, many thanks! And it will now be really useful as I spent some time today trying to work out whether peaking was on or not (you know how that isn't always clear from the screen in dodgy light)

[Mark Romero 2]

2 hours ago, Geoffrey said:

Yes I mean in human / animal mode. I have tried this but not had any joy but then I have found once the yellow box appears it works anyway (but the suggestion in the video is it could work better). It is almost impossible to test without another human subject but I have a shoot on Thursday. Have you used the method when there is only one subject so nothing to choose from?

I basically test it by getting a person's face up on my monitor and focus on it. Try putting a couple of faces on your monitor. 

I think you can either tap on the face you want, or you can use the joystick to toggle between faces.

If you have portraits on your wall, you can try it there, too.

Doesn't work with people wearing a covid mask though.

2 hours ago, Geoffrey said:

Yep that's it, many thanks! And it will now be really useful as I spent some time today trying to work out whether peaking was on or not (you know how that isn't always clear from the screen in dodgy light)

I just assigned it to the function button on the front. A little cumbersome if on a gimbal, but pretty easy if going handheld.

[Geoffrey]

13 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I basically test it by getting a person's face up on my monitor and focus on it. Try putting a couple of faces on your monitor. 

I think you can either tap on the face you want, or you can use the joystick to toggle between faces.

If you have portraits on your wall, you can try it there, too.

Doesn't work with people wearing a covid mask though.

I just assigned it to the function button on the front. A little cumbersome if on a gimbal, but pretty easy if going handheld.

Thanks for the advice re autofocus testing

And yes I have one of the top function buttons assigned to peaking - I had just never noticed the P going on and off., till now!

On a tangent, I am finding the CineD2 profile really nice for autumnal colours. My new favourite. I have also gone back to doing everything in HD as I just don't have the storage and power for editing 4K. Plus HD on the S5 looks great anyway. Interesting watching Andrew's video on the main forum page about the obsession with tech and I would add obsession with pixel count to that.

[herein2020]

On 11/2/2021 at 6:38 PM, Geoffrey said:

Thanks for the advice re autofocus testing

And yes I have one of the top function buttons assigned to peaking - I had just never noticed the P going on and off., till now!

On a tangent, I am finding the CineD2 profile really nice for autumnal colours. My new favourite. I have also gone back to doing everything in HD as I just don't have the storage and power for editing 4K. Plus HD on the S5 looks great anyway. Interesting watching Andrew's video on the main forum page about the obsession with tech and I would add obsession with pixel count to that.

For the type of work that I do, 4K is critical. For fashion shows I am typically hired to shoot the whole show for both photography and video so the camera is on a tripod while I hand hold the photography camera; I edit on a 1080P timeline and use 4K to crop, zoom, and recompose. Multiple times it would have been even better to have 6K when the models are walking or stop short of the mark; but I really wouldn't want to have to deal with the increased storage requirements.

So for me the real power of everything over 1080P is in the edit, not the delivery.

[Mark Romero 2]

Is anyone using an ultrawide crop-sensor / aps-c lens on their S5 / S1 cameras for 4K 60p?

I have been looking at the Canon EF-S 10-18 as well as the tamron 10-24 VC lens, and just kind of wondering how well they work.

With ultra-wide lenses, I find it is important that the LENS stabilization works (and doesn't default to ONLY the camera's IBIS), since that will help eliminate corner warping when filming on a gimbal.

Any experience greatly appreciated.

[herein2020]

On 11/16/2021 at 11:51 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Is anyone using an ultrawide crop-sensor / aps-c lens on their S5 / S1 cameras for 4K 60p?

I have been looking at the Canon EF-S 10-18 as well as the tamron 10-24 VC lens, and just kind of wondering how well they work.

With ultra-wide lenses, I find it is important that the LENS stabilization works (and doesn't default to ONLY the camera's IBIS), since that will help eliminate corner warping when filming on a gimbal.

Any experience greatly appreciated.

 

The Canon EF-S 10-18 does not work with the S5. You can see the barrel of the lens with that lens on the S5. I was going to use that lens for real estate work since I already had it for a Canon Rebel T6S and I discovered it does not work. I ended up getting a 24mm F2.8 instead.  I also have a 16-35mm F4.0 but its a bit big and heavy for gimbal work.

I don't shoot much real estate these days since real estate agents in my area have continued to refuse to pay more despite the fact everything else is costing more, but if I still shot a lot of real estate I would probably get the  Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM for the S5.  With that lens at 4K30FPS it would be 14mm and at 4K60FPS it would still be a 21mm. 

 

On 10/18/2021 at 10:31 AM, Thpriest said:

I've only used the XLR a few times with the S5 but it has always worked correctly as it did with my GH5

 

Turns out it was something wrong with the camera. I sent it in for repair and got to experience Panasonic's repair service first hand. No status, no information, nothing at all, but 3wks later it showed up fixed. The shutter button was also sticking and they fixed that as well. Nothing more infuriating than a sticking shutter button when you are trying to half press to focus.