Panasonic S5 User Experience

[Mark Romero 2]

9 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I think if you are a dedicated videographer, it shouldn't be a problem...

I shoot hybrid so I am not a dedicated videographer.

All day long I am flicking between shooting stills, lowering that camera and popping up the second one to capture the same scene with video handheld.

Sometimes, I need to do both at the same time such as: entrances, exits, confetti, vows/ring exchange/first kiss and in that case, the freestanding monopod directly in front of me comes into play so I can shoot stills while the video is doing it's own thing. Except vows/rings where I can lock focus.

It's then that reliable AF is required and with the system, it mostly is OK providing the subjects are not moving too fast.

And then there is full ceremony and full speeches coverage but that one is easy. Tripod, slightly wider angle than is needed (can always punch in with 4k) and focus locked off.

It's really (for me anyway) those entrances/exits/confetti times when I need the reliable AF and the total of these parts of the day are around 2 minutes without vows/rings and not much more because focus can be locked for vows/rings.

I can...and do, pop the ZV1 onto the S5 hotshoe as backup at these times as the tracking is excellent and though I don't really want to mix that footage in with the Panasonic S1H/S5 principal footage, for the sake of backup + a 10 second fiddle to pop on the ZV1, why not?

For 2022, I've picked up a gimbal, so that might be 'interesting'...

I don't intend to use it too much and will be getting some practice in over the next 8 weeks until my season starts, but as my S5 was relegated to the static video role only, I decided maybe I could use it a bit more so got myself a stormtrooper white Zhiyun Crane M3.

I put a QR plate on the bottom instead of the standard tiny tripod thing so if it's not in the hand, it's sitting on a proper full size (but still lightweight) tripod. The whole lot; tripod, gimbal, camera & lens, weighs under 3kg so it's really light weight to shift about.

It will be interesting to see how the AF stacks up though...

I can't see myself using it outside of the drinks reception and the couple session and it's primarily for the latter I decided to get and try one. A few minor gentle push in or pull outs I'll just rely on my ninja moves with the S1H and IBIS, but it's any bigger movements where that doesn't work so well. Might try it (the gimbal) on the dancefloor also. Just need to get a bit more dynamism into some of my shooting some of the day...

I have bought a gimbal twice before. And twice sent it back after setting it up. Too big, too heavy, too unwieldy/awkward.

This new set up though I feel...at least ergonomically and from a size & weight POV, is OK.

We shall see however because as is ALWAYS the case with weddings, it's only at weddings that any bit of kit is properly tested!

I am shocked - SHOCKED I say - to hear you got a gimbal!!! 

Is the Apocalypse upon us?

Do I need to keep an eye out for aloft swine???

🙂

[Mark Romero 2]

20 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Well you know the best answer to that right now is the R5C.....IF you can hand hold without IBIS which for me remains to be seen. Of course there's always the Sony camp as well. 

I don't think you will find a good solution with any Panasonic camera. I do make mine work with people though, I've shot weddings and plenty of events with my S5.......you just have to be prepared to throw away whatever you can't keep in focus.

Yeah, been looking at getting either a Canon or a Sony to add to my collection just for the AF on a gimbal. Need to look in to it more though since there are a lot of boxes checked by the S5 that are un-checked by the R6 or the a7 IV.

[MrSMW]

15 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I am shocked - SHOCKED I say - to hear you got a gimbal!!! 

Is the Apocalypse upon us?

Do I need to keep an eye out for aloft swine???

🙂

I know, I am kind of in shock myself 🤪

As I said though, only for very specific times of the day otherwise it will remain locked as part of the tripod.

And only because the weight and size (vs the output) is at an all time low for a full frame 6k camera. Not that I shoot 6k.

We’ll see how it goes, but even if I only use it once at every wedding this year, the cost without any resale of the tool at the end of the year, will be 10 euros per wedding.

I reckon it will produce maybe an average 20 sequences/clips I might use on any job that I could not have otherwise have achieved, so….

There’s still a large part of my senses that says it’s still an extra faff though… 😜

[herein2020]

12 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I know, I am kind of in shock myself 🤪

As I said though, only for very specific times of the day otherwise it will remain locked as part of the tripod.

And only because the weight and size (vs the output) is at an all time low for a full frame 6k camera. Not that I shoot 6k.

We’ll see how it goes, but even if I only use it once at every wedding this year, the cost without any resale of the tool at the end of the year, will be 10 euros per wedding.

I reckon it will produce maybe an average 20 sequences/clips I might use on any job that I could not have otherwise have achieved, so….

There’s still a large part of my senses that says it’s still an extra faff though… 😜

I am equally shocked that the "g" word was ever mentioned by you 🙂. I will admit I went through the full gambit, started out on a tripod (real estate work), moved to a monopod (events), discovered gimbals (tried to shoot everything on them), then got fed up with how fiddly they are and with the IBIS being so good I now love handheld. 

The S5 is so steady that I add camera movement just to add back some motion to the footage. Mind you, that's for standing only or taking one or two steps at most; anything more than that and I suffer through the gimbal rigging and setup.

On 2/1/2022 at 11:14 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Yeah, been looking at getting either a Canon or a Sony to add to my collection just for the AF on a gimbal. Need to look in to it more though since there are a lot of boxes checked by the S5 that are un-checked by the R6 or the a7 IV.

I absolutely hated the R6 for anything video related but that's just me.  For short un-complicated gimbal work it could be a good solution though. If you can, I'd try to go to a local retailer and hold one and play with the menus a bit in the store. Unfortunately, you can't find all of the problems that way, but the R6 is really cheap feeling in the hands. The grip is great but the material is several notches below the S5 IMO.

With the Sony, would you need to buy Sony lenses to use the CAF? 

[Mark Romero 2]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:43 AM, herein2020 said:

I absolutely hated the R6 for anything video related but that's just me.  For short un-complicated gimbal work it could be a good solution though. If you can, I'd try to go to a local retailer and hold one and play with the menus a bit in the store. Unfortunately, you can't find all of the problems that way, but the R6 is really cheap feeling in the hands. The grip is great but the material is several notches below the S5 IMO.

Thanks for the heads up. Can you elaborate further on what you disliked about it for video use? For real estate videos I am shooting mostly at 4K 60fps and as you know, the S5 / S1 have a crop, so I am using an aps-c lens, the Canon EF 10-18 STM. So the appeal of an R6 would be being able to shoot at 4K 60fps in full frame mode.

Sadly, the a7 IV has a crop at 4K 60fps (although I guess the rolling shutter is better than at 4K 30fps).

On 2/2/2022 at 11:43 AM, herein2020 said:

With the Sony, would you need to buy Sony lenses to use the CAF? 

From what I hear, most Canon lenses mounted on the newer Sony models (a7 III and a7 IV, newer, like a7 C, a7S III, a7R III or IV) focus quite well in AF-C with either the metabones adapter or the Sigma MC-11.

Of course, if the GH6 comes out and has they are using a new sensor with great low light / dynamic range and good autofocus, then I will just get one of those instead. The chances of that are pretty darn low though. 

[herein2020]

11 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the heads up. Can you elaborate further on what you disliked about it for video use? For real estate videos I am shooting mostly at 4K 60fps and as you know, the S5 / S1 have a crop, so I am using an aps-c lens, the Canon EF 10-18 STM. So the appeal of an R6 would be being able to shoot at 4K 60fps in full frame mode.

Sadly, the a7 IV has a crop at 4K 60fps (although I guess the rolling shutter is better than at 4K 30fps).

From what I hear, most Canon lenses mounted on the newer Sony models (a7 III and a7 IV, newer, like a7 C, a7S III, a7R III or IV) focus quite well in AF-C with either the metabones adapter or the Sigma MC-11.

Of course, if the GH6 comes out and has they are using a new sensor with great low light / dynamic range and good autofocus, then I will just get one of those instead. The chances of that are pretty darn low though. 

Here was my impressions of the R6 after a day of using it. Admittedly, a lot of FW has come out since then so it's possible the overheating issue isn't as bad as when I wrote that post. 

The crop is pretty annoying for real estate, so FF would be a nice change, but I've heard that Canon's IBIS is not good at all with wide lenses and possibly not even good on a gimbal as well with wide lenses so there's that. I haven't tested or seen this first hand.

Maybe renting the R6 prior to deciding would be a good idea, I'd assume a 3 or 7 day rental of the R6 wouldn't be too expensive.

[Mark Romero 2]

9 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Here was my impressions of the R6 after a day of using it. Admittedly, a lot of FW has come out since then so it's possible the overheating issue isn't as bad as when I wrote that post. 

The crop is pretty annoying for real estate, so FF would be a nice change, but I've heard that Canon's IBIS is not good at all with wide lenses and possibly not even good on a gimbal as well with wide lenses so there's that. I haven't tested or seen this first hand.

Maybe renting the R6 prior to deciding would be a good idea, I'd assume a 3 or 7 day rental of the R6 wouldn't be too expensive.

Thanks for the link.

Oh boy, doesn't sound like the R6 is gonna work for me. Looking like it's gonna have to be S1 and S5 plus a follow focus until there is an update to the Panasonic bodies.

Hopefully the GH6 will blow us all away and they will put some of the mojo in to the Full Frame bodies.

[Thpriest]

Is anyone using a flash with the S5 or S1? Which ones work? Thinking of the Godox TT350o as it's for occasional use. Anyone tried it?

[MrSMW]

The only flash I use is Godox AD200 off camera.

I don't use on camera myself and haven't in at least 7 if not 8 years, but OCF, at dusk or after dark yes.

Mostly outdoors, but not always, lighting up folks speaking during wedding speeches etc.

Direct if outdoors or bounced if indoors.

Great bit of kit and all I need.

I went off flash a bit the more I did video, but I'm bringing it back quite a bit for '22.

[Mark Romero 2]

4 hours ago, Thpriest said:

Is anyone using a flash with the S5 or S1? Which ones work? Thinking of the Godox TT350o as it's for occasional use. Anyone tried it?

Similar to @MrSMW I use a Godox AD200 (or an AD360) for off camera flash.

Probably for on-camera flash I would use one of the Godox flash guns as well. They are good and "pretty durable" (I have managed to kill a few though since I am not particularly careful with my equipment).

Generally, Godox designates the flash guns that are compatible with the Panasonic S5 / S1 with the letter "O" for Olympus, since Panasonic and Olympus cameras use the same flash communication protocol (as far as I know). 

Do note that the S1 has a flash sync speed of 1/320th BEFORE going in to High Speed Sync (HSS), but it only does that with certain Profoto flash guns, which are way above MY budget.

And finally, for the Godox options, the on-camera flash guns that take AA batteries are fine for light duty work, but for serious work, I do strongly suggest the ones  with LiON batteries. The recycle time is faster and they just take a lot more shots. The problem is if you lose a battery (or forgot the battery at home), you can't just pop down to your local grocery store and pick up a replacement battery (the way you could with a flash gun that uses AA batteries). Likewise, if the battery fails (or the charger dies), then you will have to order a new battery / charger online .

[BjornT]

For those interested here is a Spec Ad I shot with my colleague Greg Latham last year. A mix of S1/S5 with canon FD primes, the Lumix 24-105 as well as some Sigma 70-200 EF long lens stuff. Still amazed the quality these cameras produces for the price.

 

 

[Mark Romero 2]

11 hours ago, BjornT said:

For those interested here is a Spec Ad I shot with my colleague Greg Latham last year. A mix of S1/S5 with canon FD primes, the Lumix 24-105 as well as some Sigma 70-200 EF long lens stuff. Still amazed the quality these cameras produces for the price.

 

 

Great Work!!!

[herein2020]

On 2/7/2022 at 7:10 AM, Thpriest said:

Is anyone using a flash with the S5 or S1? Which ones work? Thinking of the Godox TT350o as it's for occasional use. Anyone tried it?

I also use all Godox. I use the Canon version and they worked just fine with the S5. I only use all manual settings though so I do not know if the TTL features work with the S5 and the Canon Godox flashes.

I only use my S5 for video so I only briefly tested the flash functions, but they all worked with my current setup. I have almost every flash Godox makes including the V860's (on camera or off camera wireless flashes), the AD360 (off camera) the AD600 (my favorite and most used flashes for off camera fashion and studio work), and Godox QS 1200's for studio work. I trigger them all with the Godox Xpro-C (Canon version) wireless trigger. 

Keep in mind that if you are going all in on Panasonic that the S5 has a builtin wireless flash radio system that I think can control up to 4 flashes natively, so if that's important to you then you may want to look into lumix or Olympus flashes. I have too much invested in Godox to turn back now and I would rather use a hot shoe mounted trigger vs digging through menus when I need to change flash settings, but I know a lot of people probably don't know the S5 has this capability.

I also recommend that for any flash you buy that you verify that it has a wireless receiver, I shoot about 95% off camera and wireless is critical for that.  I do love my V860's though, I can throw them on a light stand and shoot everything from real estate to weddings, then put them on camera when I need to run around a venue at an event.

[BjornT]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:13 PM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Great Work!!!

Thank you!

[FS670ES]

Hi

I would like to ask how is the S5 autofocus nowadays in AF-C face/eye/subject tracking ? I am looking to jump ship from Fuji X-T4 and wondering if I will loose much in that department. Also wondering how much better the AF is with native lets say Panasonic 50 f1.8 compared to something like Sigma 65 f2 ?

I will not be using camera professionally, only hobby travel / family / kids stuff. Fuji is not ideal and I can see some pulsing especially when using eye / face tracking. 

 

[Mark Romero 2]

3 hours ago, FS670ES said:

Hi

I would like to ask how is the S5 autofocus nowadays in AF-C face/eye/subject tracking ? I am looking to jump ship from Fuji X-T4 and wondering if I will loose much in that department. Also wondering how much better the AF is with native lets say Panasonic 50 f1.8 compared to something like Sigma 65 f2 ?

I will not be using camera professionally, only hobby travel / family / kids stuff. Fuji is not ideal and I can see some pulsing especially when using eye / face tracking. 

 

Personally, I don't find CONTINUOUS autofocus to be usable when shooting video.

However, I usually shoot at 30fps in V-LOG, and that is where continuous autofocus struggles the most.

If you shoot in 60fps (which is only aps-c crop on the S1 / S5 series of cameras, not full frame), AND you shoot in a more contrasty picture profile (standard, natural, 709Like), then the continuous autofocus is better.

Please note that I only have one L-Mount lens: the 24-105 f/4

It is a good lens but probably the Panasonic prime lenses would focus better.

Also, Sigma lenses are notoriously WORSE for autofocus on Panasonic L-Mount bodies.

[MrSMW]

Coming from Fuji myself (XT3), not as good.

For stills, no problemo…in fact there are several bonuses with stills for a camera having contrast detect.

But for video, with static subjects or side to side movement, pretty OK and yes, native Panny lenses have an edge over Sigma.

Reliable tracking forward or away from you. Forget it. Pretty crap.

It CAN do it, but you don’t get to decide when those times are.

Toss a coin up in the air and the probability of heads or tails is 50:50.

That’s S5/S1 tracking as things stand for you.

 

[lmackreath]

does anyone have the issue on the s5 that means it keeps reverting the movie mode back to mp4 format?

my main movie dial is set to .mov, the problem is if I then mov the dial to S&Q  - that changes the format for slow footage to mp4 - which i understand. the problem is sometimes, not always - when I then switch back to movie mode dial it then keeps the mp4 format and screws up my settings - rather than reverting back to my .mov 4k setting?? anyone else seen this?

[Mark Romero 2]

6 hours ago, lmackreath said:

does anyone have the issue on the s5 that means it keeps reverting the movie mode back to mp4 format?

my main movie dial is set to .mov, the problem is if I then mov the dial to S&Q  - that changes the format for slow footage to mp4 - which i understand. the problem is sometimes, not always - when I then switch back to movie mode dial it then keeps the mp4 format and screws up my settings - rather than reverting back to my .mov 4k setting?? anyone else seen this?

Thanks for the heads up.

I don't know if that is "normal" behavior or not since I have never used the S&Q mode, but I thank you for bringing it up in case I ever do use S&Q, it gives me something to look out for.

If that is the way it is supposed to work (i.e., keep mp4 mode after using S&Q), I would definitely suggest to set up one of your custom slots for your most common .mov settings). 

Sorry that isn't a great answer and if I have time I will try out my S5 later today and see if mine does that too. 

[lmackreath]

51 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the heads up.

I don't know if that is "normal" behavior or not since I have never used the S&Q mode, but I thank you for bringing it up in case I ever do use S&Q, it gives me something to look out for.

If that is the way it is supposed to work (i.e., keep mp4 mode after using S&Q), I would definitely suggest to set up one of your custom slots for your most common .mov settings). 

Sorry that isn't a great answer and if I have time I will try out my S5 later today and see if mine does that too. 

thanks - the odd thing is is that it doesnt happen all the time - which makes me think its a bug. the natural behaviour to me is that either dial should keep its own setting - so there is no reason why switching to s&q and back again should knock out the .mov setting. i only realised it did it when i imported my footage and x amount of files had changed from .mov to .mp4 which was annoying!