Panasonic S5 User Experience

[Mark Romero 2]

7 hours ago, Thpriest said:

But please Panasonic, give us top notch AF in the MK2 versions. I really don't want to go to Sony or Canon as the cameras have everything else I need for the right price.

 

 

That's Yankee for: "You are correct, sir!"

[Mark Romero 2]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:25 PM, MrSMW said:

I am keeping the kit zoom 20-60 close by though for those few times when I need the best tracking AF that I can get, ie, entrances, exits etc and shooting that at f4 or 5.6 at it’s widest focal length, ie, a ‘30mm’ equiv

So I am thinking of getting the 20-60 and using it similar to how you are using it, On a gimbal for continuous AF at 60fps and I have to ask: How reliable is the continuous autofocus in that situation?

I guess if all else fails, I can plug my Weebill S gimbal in to the S5 via USB cable and use the follow focus feature. But it would be great to have at least SOME autofocus ability.

Also, when shooting at 20mm but in 60fps, it would have an equivalent focal length of 30mm. is that tight enough to get rid of the corner warping from the IBIS? I have seen people vlog with the S5 and 20-60 at 20mm in full frame mode and the corner warping is pretty hideous. So I wonder if shooting in aps-c would reduce / eliminate it. 

[MrSMW]

It’s one of the ‘better’ AF lenses for sure, if not the ‘best’.

I haven’t seen warpy edges ever with this lens and only shoot 4K 50p, but yes, seen folks vlogging while bouncing along a mountain track and their warpy edges.

Must be because it’s in crop mode I guess?

But my whole shooting style is static and don’t do camera movements so…

[Mark Romero 2]

41 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

It’s one of the ‘better’ AF lenses for sure, if not the ‘best’.

I haven’t seen warpy edges ever with this lens and only shoot 4K 50p, but yes, seen folks vlogging while bouncing along a mountain track and their warpy edges.

Must be because it’s in crop mode I guess?

But my whole shooting style is static and don’t do camera movements so…

Thank you for the reply.

My thought is (and this is if I ever get back in to shooting weddings, which is undecided at this time) would be to use it on a gimbal on the S5 at 4K 60p, so hopefully the crop and faster shutter speed helps with the AF and the crop to 30mm equivalence helps with the warpy edges.

Fingers crossed.

[Geoffrey]

Thanks for the detailed replies Mark and Mr SMW. Definitely moving towards the 50mm Lumix (helped by it being the cheapest!). Also intrigued by experimenting with a cheap manual vintage lens as long as I can work out what adapter I would need.

I have noticed occasional warpy edges with IBIS on the 20-60 but only in quite extreme situations (i.e. zoomed right in and high wind making staying still impossible) and even then you had to look for it to notice it.

Does anyone use the other image stabilisation features on the S5? I have always stuck with just IBIS.

[Mark Romero 2]

1 hour ago, Geoffrey said:

Does anyone use the other image stabilisation features on the S5? I have always stuck with just IBIS.

The bulk of my work is real estate stills and video.

I actually DIDN'T buy the Panasonic 16-35 f/4 because it doesn't have LENS stabilization. I am instead using a Canon EF 16-35 f/4 L because it does have LENS stabilization, which helps reduce corner warping at wider focal lengths.

For 4K 60p (which is aps-c sensor area), I use a Canon 10-18 STM IS, again, because it has lens stabilization.

I am using this on a gimbal as well (Weebill S).

It works pretty well at avoiding corner warping.

[Mark Romero 2]

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I actually DIDN'T buy the Panasonic 16-35 f/4 because it doesn't have LENS stabilization. I am instead using a Canon EF 16-35 f/4 L because it does have LENS stabilization, which helps reduce corner warping at wider focal lengths.

To elaborate a bit for those who don't understand what I meant, corner warping happens when a camera uses five-axis stabilization to stabilize an ultra-wide angle lens. It doesn't happen with three-axis in-body stabilization.

When using the Lens-stabilization option of the Panasonic IBIS system, it allows the lens to stabilize in three axis, and the camera stabilizes in two axis. Thus reducing the corner warping.

[MrSMW]

My IBIS rule of thumb is it is always on except digital but assigned to the top red record button to toggle off when on a tripod.

I don’t forget on or off because it’s always involves the same 3 step process:

1: Attach camera to tripod. (All 3 of my main cameras have Manfrotto plates permanently attached).

2: Change lens…because the only reason any camera is going on a tripod is for the ceremony or speeches and I don’t always have the ability to use a prime at the distance I’d like. (Plus all my zooms are set to manual focus by default).

3: Push the red button and toggle off IBIS.

The only exception to this rule is my 95% stills/5% video unit, my S1R where I also have OIS switched on and working in collaboration with the cameras IBIS because I am generally working at or towards the 105mm end of the 24-105 zoom.

I have never tried digital, but may just out of curiosity, but can’t really criticize the Lumix stability in the first place as it’s excellent.

[Mark Romero 2]

7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

My IBIS rule of thumb is it is always on except digital but assigned to the top red record button to toggle off when on a tripod.

OK, then the question becomes: What button do you press to record video? Just the shutter button?

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

OK, then the question becomes: What button do you press to record video? Just the shutter button?

Hole in one.

Maybe it’s just me, but only the shutter button makes any sense to me!

[Mark Romero 2]

13 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Hole in one.

Maybe it’s just me, but only the shutter button makes any sense to me!

Thank you!

[projectwoofer]

Yeap, shutter button fan here! As for stabilization on the S5 I'm very happy with IBIS when doing light camera movements and IS Boost when staying still. I'm not using any stabilized lenses, most are vintage manual lenses anyway. I'm not sure about the E-Stabilization though. Anyone used that? I think it mainly helps with longer lenses but even then, wouldn't a DR post stabilization better? Or maybe the E-Stab in camera does it better because it also uses gyro data?

[ac6000cw]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:27 PM, projectwoofer said:

Yeap, shutter button fan here! As for stabilization on the S5 I'm very happy with IBIS when doing light camera movements and IS Boost when staying still. I'm not using any stabilized lenses, most are vintage manual lenses anyway. I'm not sure about the E-Stabilization though. Anyone used that? I think it mainly helps with longer lenses but even then, wouldn't a DR post stabilization better? Or maybe the E-Stab in camera does it better because it also uses gyro data?

No experience with the S5, but on the G9 I normally have the E-Stabilization on all the time (with native m4/3 lenses) - for me, the extra stability and reduced 'warping' effects with wide-angle lenses outweigh the small extra crop and marginal reduction in resolution. AFAIK yes it does use the gyro data. As Kye pointed out recently on another thread, you can still get motion blur due to camera movement, as the E-Stabilization part can't do anything about that, but I think Panasonic use a combination of lens, sensor shift and electronic stabilization (when E-stab is enabled), which should minimise that problem in theory.

Why not try it and see what you think?

(I also use stabilization in post - Mercalli v5 in my case - but every software stabilizer I've ever tried or used can be 'broken' by some material - I think it's far better to stabilize in camera as much as possible).

 

[projectwoofer]

2 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

No experience with the S5, but on the G9 I normally have the E-Stabilization on all the time (with native m4/3 lenses) - for me, the extra stability and reduced 'warping' effects with wide-angle lenses outweigh the small extra crop and marginal reduction in resolution. AFAIK yes it does use the gyro data. As Kye pointed out recently on another thread, you can still get motion blur due to camera movement, as the E-Stabilization part can't do anything about that, but I think Panasonic use a combination of lens, sensor shift and electronic stabilization (when E-stab is enabled), which should minimise that problem in theory.

Why not try it and see what you think?

(I also use stabilization in post - Mercalli v5 in my case - but every software stabilizer I've ever tried or used can be 'broken' by some material - I think it's far better to stabilize in camera as much as possible).

 

Hey, thanks for your input. Yes, I’ve tried the EIS but the problem is it’s very difficult to do a more scientific test vs post stabilization so I was just wondering what the general consensus is here regarding the EIS vs post. Because I think generally most people advise against it from discussions I’ve read elsewhere.
 

To me, EIS sometimes worked and sometimes I was getting that strange movement that you also get with post stab in DR when for example there’s something in the foreground with a blurred background. In such a case I would just not use stab in DR but the EIS would already be baked in the footage. But as I said, a more scientific test is a bit difficult.

[ac6000cw]

19 hours ago, projectwoofer said:

To me, EIS sometimes worked and sometimes I was getting that strange movement that you also get with post stab in DR when for example there’s something in the foreground with a blurred background. In such a case I would just not use stab in DR but the EIS would already be baked in the footage. But as I said, a more scientific test is a bit difficult.

What does the 'strange movement' look like?

I think the problem with discussing the pros and cons of this is that everyone has different 'use cases' and sensitivity to the artefacts stabilization can introduce sometimes.

I'm biased towards maximum stability and minimum wide-angle warping artefacts, which I think E-stabilization on my G9 helps with, and for my use cases (I mostly shoot video of wildlife and transport subjects) I don't notice any significant E-stabilization artefacts. I also use 'IS Lock' a lot - when shooting handheld with 300mm+ lenses I need all the stabilization I can get 🙂

[Jimbo]

Hey guys, don't know if you've seen but great deal on the S5 at the moment in the UK. Wex have the camera + battery + grip + 12-60mm + 50mm for £1,599 after you apply the £200 discount code, meaning you're getting the camera for around £850. Incredible features and image quality for that price point. Nothing comes close as far as I'm aware.

I wonder what this push is about, whether a new model is inbound, or whether it's about getting as many people trying Panasonic as possible to increase market share over time when people see what you get with a Panasonic camera compared to the competition. I hope it works. I am half-tempted to go full full-frame (currently using S1 and GH5s) but damn I love my GH5s and need synchro scan in my back pocket for work, and still prefer its ergonomics to the S1.

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, Jimbo said:

I wonder what this push is about, whether a new model is inbound, or whether it's

99% certain it will be, “or…”

I just can’t see Panny Boy popping out a new S5 in what has been under 1.5 years since it’s launch.

If anything, the S1 line would come next and possibly they might merge the two as they have mentioned size themselves before.

Plus the GH6 just came out and it’s a competitor for the S5 for sure. Other than the OM-1, it’s the most compared pairing.

I think it’s just lower than desired sales, especially compared with Sony. I have zero evidence of that, just opinion.

That is a cracking deal however!

[herein2020]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:58 AM, projectwoofer said:

Hey, thanks for your input. Yes, I’ve tried the EIS but the problem is it’s very difficult to do a more scientific test vs post stabilization so I was just wondering what the general consensus is here regarding the EIS vs post. Because I think generally most people advise against it from discussions I’ve read elsewhere.
 

To me, EIS sometimes worked and sometimes I was getting that strange movement that you also get with post stab in DR when for example there’s something in the foreground with a blurred background. In such a case I would just not use stab in DR but the EIS would already be baked in the footage. But as I said, a more scientific test is a bit difficult.

 

I also do not like EIS at all and would rather fix it in post...EIS to me adds a jittery effect to the image which cannot be removed later. In all the time and projects that I shot with the S5, I never used anything but IBIS and mostly my 50mm which has no stabilization. 

@ac6000cw to me EIS adds a jittery feel to the footage, not so much artifacts as much as a very unnatural jittery feeling when the camera is panned or moved too quickly. It works great for slow shots with almost no camera motion but if you pan or tilt too quickly or if you have a lot of camera shake then to me it adds a very unnatural jittery look.

Post stabilization does not do this, post stabilization suffers more from a warping effect but the great thing about post stabilization is that you can try different types and adjust the strength. Within Davinci Resolve "Perspective" post stabilization has the best results but when it adds warping to the image then "Similarity" usually does a better job.

[herein2020]

5 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

99% certain it will be, “or…”

I just can’t see Panny Boy popping out a new S5 in what has been under 1.5 years since it’s launch.

If anything, the S1 line would come next and possibly they might merge the two as they have mentioned size themselves before.

Plus the GH6 just came out and it’s a competitor for the S5 for sure. Other than the OM-1, it’s the most compared pairing.

I think it’s just lower than desired sales, especially compared with Sony. I have zero evidence of that, just opinion.

That is a cracking deal however!

I am hoping its not their "Going out of Business" sale....there's always that possibility.

[projectwoofer]

2 hours ago, herein2020 said:

 

I also do not like EIS at all and would rather fix it in post...EIS to me adds a jittery effect to the image which cannot be removed later. In all the time and projects that I shot with the S5, I never used anything but IBIS and mostly my 50mm which has no stabilization. 

@ac6000cw to me EIS adds a jittery feel to the footage, not so much artifacts as much as a very unnatural jittery feeling when the camera is panned or moved too quickly. It works great for slow shots with almost no camera motion but if you pan or tilt too quickly or if you have a lot of camera shake then to me it adds a very unnatural jittery look.

Post stabilization does not do this, post stabilization suffers more from a warping effect but the great thing about post stabilization is that you can try different types and adjust the strength. Within Davinci Resolve "Perspective" post stabilization has the best results but when it adds warping to the image then "Similarity" usually does a better job.

Yes, from my tests with EIS I think I’m only going to use it with longer lenses, FHD pixel pixel mode for extra reach and relatively static shots. It seems to work nicely in those situations. For all other static shots IBIS with IS boost works fantastically for me. I don’t move the camera a lot generally but for those panning, tilting and generally light movements simple IBIS without boost is best. Fortunately I never film while walking so I have no real need for a gimbal.