Panasonic S5 User Experience

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

That's a good question.

I am not sure: Will the S1R be getting the VLOG update???

Here's the thing that kind of has me a bit beweildered / confused / annoyed with using my S1 as a run and gun camera (I really mean on a gimbal for real estate).

In many situations, I find the IBIS can lead to warping that I can't get out. 

Might be 100% user error.

I am using a Canon 16-35 f/4 L on my S1 (along with the MC-21) and I have found that with my workflow using Resolve, it is better to set the S1 and len to Lens Stabilization (where the IS of the lens handles pan and tilt, and the body stabilization only handles roll). Then use Resolve's stabilization in post to smooth out further.

I noticed on Panasonic L Mount lenses that I CAN'T use Lens stabilization only. Maybe the Dual IS system in use on Panasonic L Mount lenses automatically divides the duties up where the lens is handling pan and tilt and the body is handling roll already? (Without having to assign it in the menu.)

Anyway, this is probably why I will continue to use the Canon 16-35 f/4 L on a gimbal instead of going for the smaller, light (but much more expensive) Panasonic 16-35 f/4.

I stopped using any IS for my real estate GH5 gimbal work. I just turn it all off, I shoot 60FPS and stabilize in post if needed.  At least for the MFT sensor size I found I could get much better results this way. I also spent many hours tweaking my Ronin S settings and perfecting my ninja walk. What I have learned after many years of shooting real estate videos is that you literally should slow every movement to nearly a crawl, especially pans and walks. If you don't start out super slow with every movement you will regret something about the footage later.

By moving super slow you will not need IS at all as long as your gimbal settings are optimal. I then use speed ramps and 60FPS to control the actual speed of the footage. You can always speed up footage, you can't always remove instability or slow down the footage enough to make it smooth. But if you start super slow and focus on stability you have much more flexibility in post. For really large properties I've seen people on YouTube use things like skateboards, etc.....to try to remove the up/down bouncing, but if you perfect your ninja walk and go super slow or use speed ramps Resolve can even remove the Z axis movement.

The other mistake people make is when they speed ramp real estate footage they only go to 200% or 500%, that's a mistake, that just magnifies any instability that is already there; if you are going to speed ramp do it right.....jump to 2000% or higher then add the motion blur FX and suddenly your footage is buttery smooth; then drop the ramp down to 50% since you shot 60FPS and it looks great. Obviously don't over use this technique and its better for larger houses or commercial properties; for smaller ones I use a mixture of a monopod for pans, tilts, and detail shots, and only a little gimbal work and jump cuts to go from room to room.

But back to the S5, I haven't shot any real estate with it and really don't know what lens I would use if I were to shoot one tomorrow. I feel like the 16-35 EF Canon lens that I have would be too front heavy for the gimbal. It would be great if Panasonic released a 14mm F1.8 prime lens for landscape/real estate use.

[Mark Romero 2]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

It’s not a stupid question but a valid one...but no for many reasons I won’t bore anyone with!

I’m struggling to see past an S1H now. Same money as 2x S5 bodies, but I can probably justify it based on expected useage of 75 weddings so extra cost covered with the 1st wedding of the year.

OK, Thanks.

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

I use a GH5s on my gimbal and not the GH5.  I use the GH5 where I need to hand hold the camera on the go...  plus when its raining.   Its not a gimbal camera for me.

Do you use a stabilized lens then with the GH5S on a gimbal?

And thank you for confirming that warping can be problematic with a wide angle lens and IBIS. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't JUST pilot error.

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

I think its very shot dependent. I used the S1 with a 35mm lens on a gimbal and it looked fantastic. It was a slower shot though without much if any panning. The main use for IBIS for me is more like getting stable more static handheld shots. IS can accomplish this too but I'd rather use my Canon FD glass or Sigma primes rather than a Canon AF lens or something. 

Thanks for sharing your insight and tips.

[Mark Romero 2]

12 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

But back to the S5, I haven't shot any real estate with it and really don't know what lens I would use if I were to shoot one tomorrow. I feel like the 16-35 EF Canon lens that I have would be too front heavy for the gimbal. It would be great if Panasonic released a 14mm F1.8 prime lens for landscape/real estate use.

So on my S1 and Weebill S, the Canon 16-35 f/4 L balances ok. Yeah, it is a bit front heavy and I have to slide the camera pretty far back so that I can only tilt the screen upwards about 20 to 30 degrees or so. On the other hand, it makes it farily similar in balancing as, say, the 24-105 f/4, which for anyone who doesn't own it, extends a LOT when zooming.

How that Canon lens would balance on an S5 is hard to say. Maybe have to add weight to the S5 body to balance with it on a gimbal???

[MrSMW]

Just for the sake of some S5 talk... 😉

Pretty much finalised my set up for 2021 and going forward...and it isn't exactly as I originally intended...

I've dropped my requirement for hybrid use of a camera on the fly, ie, flicking back and forth between stills and video...and instead, having identical hybrid camera bodies, but they are going to be designated either; photo, filming, video or hybrid.

This means 4 bodies instead of 3. Aaaaaaaaaargh, more expense, but it's more important that I get real world usability for my specific needs.

So here's what and why. I reserve the right to change my mind further down the line if needs be, but for the moment:

S5 + Sigma 45mm f2.8 for 'medium-wide' stills. This is my version of a 35mm lens in that I prefer to work just a little more backed off so 45 gives me a tiny bit more reach and compression. My free 45 hasn't arrived yet and recently received a delay blah blah blah notification from Panasonic Europe, but hopefully will soon.

S5 + Sigma 105mm f2.8 as my portrait/tele lens for stills. It's a teeny weeny bit long for indoor use, but outdoors, will better suit my slightly more backed off approach instead of an 85mm, though I will lose the previous 135mm ability I had. I'll just have to crop.

S5 + Panasonic 24-70mm f2.8 as my filming (monopod) workhorse. Because I shoot 4k 50p for all my clips, this is effectively a 36-105mm which is perfect because it more or less matches my stills camera focal lengths above. I really wrestled over so many options or combinations in regard to this one but in the end it came down to the max flexibility of a 'one and done'.

S5 + Panasonic 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 for static (tripod) video but also as my wide angle stills lens/unit...which is convenient as the only time I need this function is when I'm not recording video, ie, this combo will be the only true hybrid use. But also not really because those times are different, though all on the same day.

Currently, I only have the one single body, the kit lens and the 45 on the way and it's enough to do the few commercial jobs I have booked, but delayed for this Winter, but the closer we get to next years wedding season...if it happens, I will start spending the cash.

It will still all fit my single backpack ethos, including 1x lightweight lightstand, light and audio gear, though I also will have my small/medium camera bag which carries all of the latter plus; batteries, powerbank, chargers etc.

But what about those lovely new f1.8 primes??!! The 85mm I have on pre-order. As much as I love them for size, weight, faster aperture etc, unless I go back to juggling lens changes all day, I can't make it work. I'll keep the pre-order for now and at least try the thing, but can't see a business case for keeping it.

Just for info/fun/out of lockdown boredom.

[Trankilstef]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Just for the sake of some S5 talk... 😉

Pretty much finalised my set up for 2021 and going forward...and it isn't exactly as I originally intended...

I've dropped my requirement for hybrid use of a camera on the fly, ie, flicking back and forth between stills and video...and instead, having identical hybrid camera bodies, but they are going to be designated either; photo, filming, video or hybrid.

This means 4 bodies instead of 3. Aaaaaaaaaargh, more expense, but it's more important that I get real world usability for my specific needs.

So here's what and why. I reserve the right to change my mind further down the line if needs be, but for the moment:

S5 + Sigma 45mm f2.8 for 'medium-wide' stills. This is my version of a 35mm lens in that I prefer to work just a little more backed off so 45 gives me a tiny bit more reach and compression. My free 45 hasn't arrived yet and recently received a delay blah blah blah notification from Panasonic Europe, but hopefully will soon.

S5 + Sigma 105mm f2.8 as my portrait/tele lens for stills. It's a teeny weeny bit long for indoor use, but outdoors, will better suit my slightly more backed off approach instead of an 85mm, though I will lose the previous 135mm ability I had. I'll just have to crop.

S5 + Panasonic 24-70mm f2.8 as my filming (monopod) workhorse. Because I shoot 4k 50p for all my clips, this is effectively a 36-105mm which is perfect because it more or less matches my stills camera focal lengths above. I really wrestled over so many options or combinations in regard to this one but in the end it came down to the max flexibility of a 'one and done'.

S5 + Panasonic 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 for static (tripod) video but also as my wide angle stills lens/unit...which is convenient as the only time I need this function is when I'm not recording video, ie, this combo will be the only true hybrid use. But also not really because those times are different, though all on the same day.

Currently, I only have the one single body, the kit lens and the 45 on the way and it's enough to do the few commercial jobs I have booked, but delayed for this Winter, but the closer we get to next years wedding season...if it happens, I will start spending the cash.

It will still all fit my single backpack ethos, including 1x lightweight lightstand, light and audio gear, though I also will have my small/medium camera bag which carries all of the latter plus; batteries, powerbank, chargers etc.

But what about those lovely new f1.8 primes??!! The 85mm I have on pre-order. As much as I love them for size, weight, faster aperture etc, unless I go back to juggling lens changes all day, I can't make it work. I'll keep the pre-order for now and at least try the thing, but can't see a business case for keeping it.

Just for info/fun/out of lockdown boredom.

Yeah to keep the conversation rollin', I personnally sold the 20-60 + the brand new never used 45mm 1.8 from Sigma, to fund a 16-35 f4 S Pro lens. I will go shooting with the 16-35 f4 on the S5 and 24-70 f2.8 on the S1H. That my be the perfect run and gun combination (for stills and video). 
If I need more light or shallower DOF I have my Samyang Cine Kit Lens kit (14mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm) but I would love to invest in the entire set of Panasonic 1.8 prime lenses to use the improved AF from the S5 that I find really good in good light for tracking faces and people in general.
And I'm waiting for an sequel of the Panasonic EVA1 to maybe add to my arsenal.

[MrSMW]

16 minutes ago, Trankilstef said:

I personnally sold the 20-60

Say it isn't so?!

I love this lens.

It's not fast and so a bit limited in low light, but it works for me in a number of ways...

Static wedding ceremony and speeches lens with a focal range equivalent to 30-90mm. OK, I need to test that long end at f5.6 but I always throw some constant light on the top table/speaker so even outdoors in the dark at 6400, I think we'll be OK. Think...I need to test, but used to use a 1" camcorder which was about equivalent f64 or something...

Then it's my 20mm wide angle wedding landscape/architecture lens plus wide establishing room shots such as bride prep, 30mm if we're talking 4k 50p video.

Also, it's my personal/travel family lens when we get back to things hopefully next year. OK 60mm isn't that long for stills but for family stuff it will be fine and my last personal camera was an X100 and that was 35mm equivalent.

It's solid, it's compact, it's weather resistant...it's extremely limited on a proper landscape shoot as I found out just before Lockdown 2 so looking forward to the 70-300!

But it's useless piece of shit if it's just going to be gathering dust!

Speaking of the f1.8 quadrilogy, but original plan was for one of each, all of which would get used, but the 24 was never going to be quite wide enough for when I need wide angle video (dancing) and the 85 not quite long enough for ceremony stills and if I was using it for such, then I wouldn't have anything long enough for the ceremony.

The conclusion was I'd need multiple copies of the 85, something wide than the 24 and I'd have to do some juggling of lenses throughout the day and although the very thought of zooms hurts my soul (deeply), I also have to be realistic in regard to my specific needs as a solo hybrid shooter on a typical 9-15 hour wedding day.

The answer I came up with is it had to be zooms and on tripod and freestanding standing monopod for video and essentially the good old combo of a 35mm + 85mm prime for stills except in my case the combo of 20mm + 45mm + 105mm. Which is slightly different but does not require any lens changes all day long on any camera, stills or video.

But as the saying goes, no plan ever survives it's first encounter with the enemy.

I think this one has a good chance however as it's not really a 'new' plan, but yet another evolution of what came before.

I actually tried to squeeze the Sigma 50-100mm f1.8 into the mix but including tripod collar, mount and adapter, it would have been a 2kg beast of a lens, but one which with one twist of the zoom ring, could have been a 75mm f1.8 or a 150mm f1.8 (in 4k 50). But I'd be lugging it about all day long and coupled with the camera body, monopod, powerbank strapped to monopod, from (lighter) previous experience, it's actually a bit much for a sololist also juggling stills, audio etc.

Samyang cine...damn, I missed that one but no, must resist, I have looked at every other option from cine-modded Iron Glass through Voigtlander through the Sigma APSC trilogy of primes etc etc etc.

Sticking to plan. For now...

[Trankilstef]

17 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I love this lens.

It's not fast and so a bit limited in low light, but it works for me in a number of ways...

Yes i loved it too for a number of reasons but i hate non constant aperture lenses. And I always love to have a good ultra wide angle zoom lens (I always had one of these in every system I owned, be it Canon, Sony and now soon Panasonic). It will convert nicely into a 24-50mm when put in S35, wich is 90% of the focal lenghts I typically use. I think the 16-35 really suits my style and I love its size, a litlle bigger than the 20-60 but not by much.

[MrSMW]

Definitely what works for you is always the ‘right’ answer.

I rarely shoot video wider than 50mm and yes, my only real criticism of the 20-60 is it’s 3.5-5.6 and I would rather it had been a constant f4 even it it had been a little bigger, heavier and more expensive.

Also forgot to say, focus clutch on the 24-70 f2.8. Love that and will suit my needs perfectly which is AF at weddings only for confetti, entrances and exits, ie, when I have to shoot stills at the same time and the subjects are moving towards me. Rest of the day manual and the zoom in peaking is quite decent on the S5 though could be a bit stronger?

[Mark Romero 2]

18 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I've dropped my requirement for hybrid use of a camera on the fly, ie, flicking back and forth between stills and video...and instead, having identical hybrid camera bodies, but they are going to be designated either; photo, filming, video or hybrid.

Hmmm... if the S5 is similar to the S1, I thought it would be quite easy (in terms of controls) to flip back and forth between stills and video. Are your saying your lens requirements make it difficult to use one camera as a hybrid camera?

I thought that since the S series cameras have separate settings for stills and for video, they are pretty easy to switch back and forth. Also with the Q menu and the many things can be changed so quickly.

Also, since I NEVER use the joystick I think in theory I could program the joystick as function buttons. 

so anyway I am just curious.

Also, don't underrate the 24-105 f/4. It's big and if you already have the 20-60 it is easy to say, "I already have (most of)that focal range covered<' and that is true.

But it really is a good lens, lots of reach, and the 1:2 macro and minimal focus breathing and parfocal and you can set linear manual focus makes it really useful (I understand the 20-60 has many of these same features... hard to go wrong with either lens).

Yes, it's big and obnoxious and only f/4 and the f/1.8 primes will be available soon, but it's just a good all around lens. In the USA you can buy a used one for about $750 or so.

Anyway, something to think about. Hopefully the wedding season will be starting up soon and will come full blast. hopefully everybody who has put off their weddings for so long won't want to wait until summer and they will start booking you for February and the vaccine will be flowing freely by then.

[rajputaman04]

I'm pretty happy at 600 euros and mid 300 grams considering the new Sigma f1.4 version is about double the price and weight (albeit f1.4 vs f1.8).

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Hmmm... if the S5 is similar to the S1, I thought it would be quite easy (in terms of controls) to flip back and forth between stills and video. Are your saying your lens requirements make it difficult to use one camera as a hybrid camera?

It's really simple. I have mine set up C1 for stills and C2 for video, so just a flick of a switch.

And even with a variable ND at it's lowest 2 stops, on the stills side it's actually quite a good thing as it eliminates my need to shoot super-fast electronic shutter mode speeds in bright sunlight wide open.

But no, it's not that, but more the solo hybrid shooter in the real world aspect. Most of the day I can flit backwards and forwards between stills and video as there is enough time, but then there are times when I need to do both at the same time which means freestanding monopod (over tripod for speed).

Real world though, getting a camera off a harness and onto a monopod and back off and on and off and...see what I am saying, - it's a faff thing!

Instead, one camera, one lens (zoom or change primes from time to time) dedicated to the job and then just set up and use the stills cameras to do their job.

So it's not so much a case of I can't make it work, but rather a case of I can make it work better if I keep certain tools dedicated to certain jobs.

2 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Also, don't underrate the 24-105 f/4. It's big and if you already have the 20-60 it is easy to say, "I already have (most of)that focal range covered<' and that is true.

The 24-75mm f2.8 for me, not the 24-105 f4 (f4 is pushing it for my needs), but this lens is on the monopod and working at the same time capturing clips whereas the 20-60 is on a tripod and capturing longer form video statically and remotely, ie, I need 2 bodies with a lens each to do this job.

However, I am now veering back towards primes for the filming/clips role; the Sigma 16mm f1.4 for dancing, giving the same width as the zoom, but 2 stops faster, the Sigma 56mm f1.4 as my indoor general purpose lens and 85mm is actually my 'ideal' for most of my indoor work and then the Panasonic 85mm f1.8 as my outdoor 127.5mm equivalent lens. 

All 3 add up to about the same cost as the single 24-70 and combined, weigh about the same, but on the monopod, all combos are MUCH lighter, the wide Sigma the same width but 2 stops faster and the 85mm, a decent amount more reach outdoors.

It has been weighing (pardon the pun) on my mind that the 24-70 is a bit of a beast, but I think this prime option will work better as it offers more flexibility and in summary, a 24, an 85 and a 130mm, 2 of which are f1.4 and the latter f1.8 vs single lens 24-70mm f2.8.

[MrSMW]

Oh and one other thing, I pretty much hate camera movement. Any. So IBIS for me is for stills and why I need to stick with mono or tripod for video.

I've tried everything switched on including the e:stab and it's good. Very good. But I still see movement and it bothers me.

My style simply is not handheld look, never mind pans or gimbal type work.

If I shot pure 100% video, then maybe, but I shoot 50:50 stills video and I have to draw the line somewhere in regard to what I can achieve.

And just personally prefer the static shot where the subjects move and provide the interest.

[Mark Romero 2]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

But no, it's not that, but more the solo hybrid shooter in the real world aspect. Most of the day I can flit backwards and forwards between stills and video as there is enough time, but then there are times when I need to do both at the same time which means freestanding monopod (over tripod for speed).

Real world though, getting a camera off a harness and onto a monopod and back off and on and off and...see what I am saying, - it's a faff thing!

Instead, one camera, one lens (zoom or change primes from time to time) dedicated to the job and then just set up and use the stills cameras to do their job.

So it's not so much a case of I can't make it work, but rather a case of I can make it work better if I keep certain tools dedicated to certain jobs.

Aha!!! I see your point now. Yes, been a LONG time since I shot a wedding and I understand now how your on-site workflow would be better. Thank you.

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

It has been weighing (pardon the pun) on my mind that the 24-70 is a bit of a beast, but I think this prime option will work better as it offers more flexibility and in summary, a 24, an 85 and a 130mm, 2 of which are f1.4 and the latter f1.8 vs single lens 24-70mm f2.8.

Yes, I think the 24-70 is great for someone shooting with one body (or two) but for your needs with multiple bodies, maybe primes are the way to go??? 

The Panasonic 85mm f/1.8 seems to be an excellent lens (for both stills and video). 

Off Topic: I am happy that Panasonic seems to have picked up their full frame game and released the smaller and less expensive S5 and is releasing the (also smaller and less expensive) f/1.8 primes. It's kind of funny to me that people who complained about Nikon Z cameras not having professional glass were the same people who complained about the original Canon R cameras having ONLY professional lenses.

[TomTheDP]

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Oh and one other thing, I pretty much hate camera movement. Any. So IBIS for me is for stills and why I need to stick with mono or tripod for video.

I've tried everything switched on including the e:stab and it's good. Very good. But I still see movement and it bothers me.

My style simply is not handheld look, never mind pans or gimbal type work.

If I shot pure 100% video, then maybe, but I shoot 50:50 stills video and I have to draw the line somewhere in regard to what I can achieve.

And just personally prefer the static shot where the subjects move and provide the interest.

I think there is a big difference between handheld DSLR and handheld cinema camera though. After doing handheld with my URSA mini I realized there is a huge difference. I could shoot on a 50mm and get nice looking handheld shots where as on my fuji it would be a jittery mess. 

[MrSMW]

@TomTheDP I could attach some lead weights to the bottom of my camera? 😬

But seriously, the massive advantage of using a freestanding monopod, light or heavy set up, is that whilst that is rolling, I can shoot stills at the same time, ie, it’s like having another me with me.

Weight does indeed stabilise, but it also fatigues and for the last couple of years, my filming combo of; monopod, cage, body (XT3 and prior to that XH1) powerbank, adapter, lens, added up to quite a bit to keep picking up and moving one handed for 10+ hours.

I decided to put my money where my mouth is and ordered the Sigma 56mm this afternoon. I don’t need it right now, but need to play/try it and already have a 58mm VND, so also ordered a cheap 55-58mm step up ring.

Body and lens, 1kg / 2.2lbs in American. Mucho lightweight even on the monopod!

[TomTheDP]

7 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

@TomTheDP I could attach some lead weights to the bottom of my camera? 😬

Yeah I've honestly considered that with my Z-cams as they are just too damn light lol. 

But yeah light is important for weddings. 

[MrSMW]

Just now, TomTheDP said:

But yeah light is important for weddings

Mine are 90% outdoors and typically 30-40 degrees Celsius in the shade...but people like to do everything in the sunshine, especially if they are Brits and for 10+ hours.

Light and portable is my friend! 
I have been known to drink 5+ litres during that time and I’m not exactly unfit...

[benpicko]

Finally got my camera! How long did it take everybody to get their free pre-order Sigma 45mm?

[MrSMW]

Still waiting in France...

Received notification a week or so back it was on it’s way and then a few days ago, “due to incredible demand plus Covid plus blah blah blah, sorry, delayed”.

Still, it’s a 500’ish currency lens for free so can’t complain too hard.

[Trankilstef]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Still waiting in France...

Received notification a week or so back it was on it’s way and then a few days ago, “due to incredible demand plus Covid plus blah blah blah, sorry, delayed”.

Still, it’s a 500’ish currency lens for free so can’t complain too hard.

Really? I received mine a month or so and I sold it right away. So strange that in the same country we have such a difference on delay.