Panasonic S5 User Experience

[IronFilm]

https://www.l-rumors.com/first-wild-rumored-specs-for-a-new-panasonic-l-mount-cine-camera/

Quote

Yes, Panasonic is developing a Super35 L-mount variant of the AU-EVA1 5.6k pro videocamera and a complementary Super35 S5 SLR body type. Panasonic is working to offer L-mount across its professional video lines as a long-term option to EF-mount. They are doing so in both FF and Super35 formats, and in both videocamera and SLR S5 body styles. They currently have 4 prototypes in the field with one studio in North America doing field work. Expect a 2021 release. We have seen and heard nothing about further developments for 43 systems.

An APS-C S5????

I thought Panasonic said they won't ever bring out an APS-C L Mount stills camera? As that would compete too closely with their MFT cameras.

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, Dustin said:

 So what did you end up with?

Well at this point in time, a single S5 body, the 20-60 and the 85mm.

I am going to order the ZV1, probably today so I can get familiar (ooh err missus) with it.

But that’s it until Spring ‘21 because I have to balance ‘play time’ ahead of the next wedding season with the fact there still may not be a next wedding season.

The intent as things stand is either 3x S5 bodies, or 2x S5 bodies + an S1, the ZV1, the 20-60, 35mm f1.8, 85mm f1.8 and then either keep the free Sigma 45mm f2.8 (if it ever turns up) or go with the 50mm f1.8.

Bottom line is:

1x body with zoom, static manual focus longer form video on tripod, but doubles as a wide angle prime when not filming ceremony or speeches.

2x bodies with primes for hybrid use all day long, handheld as I am liking the IBIS enough to warrant not using sticks.

1x compact for entrances/exits/walking shots, on freestanding monopod, plus doubles as second angle/backup filming for ceremony & speeches.

It is the most compact and least flawed/compromised kit I can come up with for my specific one man band hybrid wedding needs.

For commercial, just the pair of S5’s with the primes.

For landscape/hiking, single S5 with the kit lens, plus the 70-300 that is due at some point. This is photo only use.

Personal/travel that is not work, the ZV1.

Good to hear you are enjoying the Fuji.

It’s where I would go (gone back to) right now if I had not been able to make the above work, but I would have switched to XT4 for the IBIS and improved battery life.

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

An APS-C S5????

Maybe if the GH6 is not happening and instead, Panasonic are dumping 4/3rds in favour of only offering L Mount.

If a GH6 does not appear very soon, this is what they are doing almost certainly and it makes sense despite the fact that it will piss off 4/3 users.

[Mark Romero 2]

20 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Otherwise made up my mind and it's ZV1.

I think that's a good choice.

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I think that's a good choice.

I think so Mark. At least I know what I am giving up and believe it’s my best option for my needs.

Good price, under 600 euros.

[herein2020]

On 11/30/2020 at 11:32 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Out of curiosity (and totally off topic), I wonder what couples EXPECT to pay in your area? Been a LLLOOONNNGGGG time since I last shot a wedding (that was stills on film, just to give some perspective of what "long time" means).

In my area (FL) couples seem to expect to pay whatever is left over after the photographer, venue, vacation rental, baker, caterer, officiant, DJ, flower shop, and limo driver have gotten paid so around $500USD - $1100USD for a 6-8hr wedding. To add insult to injury I've had clients tell me they spent $3K on the photographer and $800 is all they have left for video. My recommendation to them is to set up their iPhone on a tripod, my lav mics setup alone is more than that.

 

@MrSMW beyond the AF issues, how does the 85mm F1.8 perform for photography and non AF video? I still kind of wish I could use native lenses but don't feel like I'm missing much.

[Mark Romero 2]

Yikes...

I think I could deal with the 6 to 8 hour wedding, but I would tell them to bring me their SD cards and they can edit themselves. 

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

 beyond the AF issues, how does the 85mm F1.8 perform for photography and non AF video? I still kind of wish I could use native lenses but don't feel like I'm missing much

Well, at this point in time, it’s pretty limiting what I can do as all work is still cancelled and it’s only work that really shows the true capability.

That being said, pretty superb. My only ‘criticism’ would be I would have preferred an aperture ring and all metal construction, but on the positive side...

A full set of identical 24, 35, 50 and 85mm lenses with the same filter size.

They are compact and light.

Optically superb, silent, very fast AF.

Designed specifically for hybrid use.

And just touching in the AF thing again, it’s ONLY the walking towards and walking away that is not 100% and I have really only tested in sunny, backlit conditions as I have tried to replicate my real world working conditions.

For everything else, the AF was fine pre-firmware. I shot 3x hybrid commercial jobs without issue. OK, the occasional mis focus but that might have been me getting to grips with the kit as much as the tools.

For stills alone, absolutely no need to question this system. Contrast detect tends to be a fraction slower than phase and the gap widens with burst shooting, but it is accurate. I haven’t had a single OOF picture that wasn’t me.

In other news, my ZV1 arrived yesterday and looking forward to testing it later today. It just needs to pass the walking towards and from test in backlit outdoor lighting...which will be interesting at 100fps because eye and face tracking doesn’t work...but we will see. I think it will still beat the S5 in this specific regard and if so, earns it’s place in my kit.

[MrSMW]

Face tracking works very well as expected in 4k 25p on the little Sony, but 1080 100p is dreadful.

Revising my plan from shooting 1080 100p to 1080 50p in order to keep the face tracking!

Just in case anyone is interested 😉

Just need to work on matching Sony 1080 50p footage to Panasonic 4K 50p on the same timeline...

I appreciate it's not going to look 'the same' but I only need to get around 10 sequences in the ballpark/as close as so not too worried.

One day, I'll just have to get a Sony A7Siii but at around 7x the price (with no lens), it will have to wait until 2022!

Or maybe by then, we will have a FF PDAF Panasonic...

[Trankilstef]

23 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Or maybe by then, we will have a FF PDAF Panasonic...

I don't think this will come at tall. But what may come in the next generation of S bodies is a very powerful chip fully dedicated on AF, because as some article have pointed out, the contrast detect AF is very powerful dependent. So with the increase of power the AF has improved recently. So one of the solution would be to dedicate an entire chip only to control the AF. The more power, the more accurate and fast this will be.

[herein2020]

12 hours ago, Trankilstef said:

I don't think this will come at tall. But what may come in the next generation of S bodies is a very powerful chip fully dedicated on AF, because as some article have pointed out, the contrast detect AF is very powerful dependent. So with the increase of power the AF has improved recently. So one of the solution would be to dedicate an entire chip only to control the AF. The more power, the more accurate and fast this will be.

I don't think we will ever know if Sony is refusing to let Panasonic use the technology or if Panasonic truly thinks what they have can be superior one day. When a camera maker is dependent on their competitor for their imaging sensor that can't be a good situation.

[zerocool22]

So finally received the sigma mc 21, so I took the s5 out of the box. I set up shutter angle, everything in V-log.  mov c4K 25fps to C1, mov C4K 50fps to C2.

- About V-log: do you guys all shoot in V-log, are do you create a custom profile with contrast and noise reduction down? Looks like I get quite a bit of grain in V-log (coming from blackmagic film log)

- I left stabilization on default with IS boost on a fn button to toggle between those if needed. On screen it isnt that clear to me what mode is on the body sign is default I guess and the same symbol without "body" is the IS boost I guess.

- But I noticed you can only access the high speed stuff on the S&Q dial. I see the options are very limited mp4 1080p 8bit. But does quality go down the higher the framerate? What is the max setting you would use? Looks like 150fps is the fastest full frame option. So I guess I stick with that.

- Did not test any of the AF functions that much yet, but what settings work best?

- I often shoot manual lenses, but double tapping the screen is a bit annoying for getting the magnifier glass for checking focus, is there a other option where it turns on with a fn button or while focussing?

 

 

Thanks!

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

So finally received the sigma mc 21, so I took the s5 out of the box. I set up shutter angle, everything in V-log.  mov c4K 25fps to C1, mov C4K 50fps to C2.

- About V-log: do you guys all shoot in V-log, are do you create a custom profile with contrast and noise reduction down? Looks like I get quite a bit of grain in V-log (coming from blackmagic film log)

- I left stabilization on default with IS boost on a fn button to toggle between those if needed. On screen it isnt that clear to me what mode is on the body sign is default I guess and the same symbol without "body" is the IS boost I guess.

- But I noticed you can only access the high speed stuff on the S&Q dial. I see the options are very limited mp4 1080p 8bit. But does quality go down the higher the framerate? What is the max setting you would use? Looks like 150fps is the fastest full frame option. So I guess I stick with that.

- Did not test any of the AF functions that much yet, but what settings work best?

- I often shoot manual lenses, but double tapping the screen is a bit annoying for getting the magnifier glass for checking focus, is there a other option where it turns on with a fn button or while focussing?

 

 

Thanks!

- I always shoot in VLOG, when color grading are you using a LUT or doing manual primaries correction? I've stopped using LUTS for primaries and get much better results simply grading by hand. In DR I create 3 nodes (primaries, curves, false color), I use the primaries node to set the Lift, Gamma, and Gain, I set Saturation to 90%, and I set Contrast to 1.17. I then fine tune the image in the curves node and check skin exposure using a false color LUT in the false color node.  I've attached a screen shot from a recent fashion show, showing before and after.  I have never had a BM so I don't know if the attached image has more grain than a BM in the same situation so I will let you be the judge of that. 

What really impressed me about the attached image is that I was able to recover the white balance. Someone turned on a very warm spotlight right as the show started and I did not have time to adjust the WB (the joys of shooting fashion shows). 

-For IS, with the Sigma adapter attached for some reason most of the modes get disabled for me and it doesn't seem to give me the option to turn off body IS. My Canon EF 24mm has lens IS and I haven't tested which is better, so I've just left everything at their defaults and it seems to all work itself out. 

-For S&Q I never use it, I shoot everything in 4K and mostly at 60FPS, I feel like all of the modes in the S&Q options are going to require that I deliver at 1080P so I haven't experimented with the modes.

-I don't use AF at all, since I can't use continuous AF with the adapter I just use hybrid AF.....so half press the shutter to get focus then MF from there.

-Depending on the lens the magnifier will automatically come on when you set the dial to MF and start turning the focus ring as long as you are not already recording. In the menus you can set the center button of the focus selector dial to magnify when in MF so that's how I have mine set. Some of my lenses like the Canon 24mm-105mm don't automatically magnify when I turn the focus ring but the EF Sigma 50mm does as long as the selector is in MF.

[PannySVHS]

@herein2020 great job on that shitty lights footage, nice grade! It looks like it was from an italian cinema masterpiece. Compliments to you but the camera as well.

The S1, S1H, S5 cameras are image quality wonders in the form factor of a prosumer camera. Hard to believe my eyes whenever I grade the footage coming from my S1.

[Mark Romero 2]

18 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

- But I noticed you can only access the high speed stuff on the S&Q dial. I see the options are very limited mp4 1080p 8bit. But does quality go down the higher the framerate? What is the max setting you would use? Looks like 150fps is the fastest full frame option. So I guess I stick with that.

Unfortunately, on S5 and S1 (and I assume S1R), anything above 50p / 60p is shot in S&Q mode so you get lower bitrate and avchd. Only the S1H has the ability to record in higher bitrates when shooting above 50p / 60p.

One of the things that kills me is that while Sony has an S&Q mode with low bitrates similar to the S5 / S1, it also has higher bitrates (100Mbps) for 1080p 120fps. I haven't compared the two side by side (some people say it looks like 720p upscaled to 1080p on the Sony cameras). But still, can't see why one can't get at least 100Mbps for 1080p 120fps.

18 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

- I often shoot manual lenses, but double tapping the screen is a bit annoying for getting the magnifier glass for checking focus, is there a other option where it turns on with a fn button or while focussing?

There's a couple of ways to do it, but you might have to dig around to set it up correctly. You have the focus mode switch on the back (AF-S, AF-C, MF), and I think if you set the switch to MF and press the AF On button (the button in the center of the switch), it will go in to magnify. Now, you have your choice of picture-in-picture magnify, or magnify the full screen.

If you are using an electronic lens (With AF???) then you should have AF+MF. You CAN punch in by rotating the focus ring, but you have to do it while pressing the AF-On (either using a dedicated button for AF-On or pressing the shutter halfway down - if you still have af tied to the shutter). It is a little bit tricky since the shutter button can be tripped pretty easily. If I am shooting waist level and using the lcd screen then I am using back-button focusing, and I guess if I were looking through the EVF I would probably tie the halfway-shutter to activating AF.

I don't know if you are using a manual focus lens with electronic contacts (like a Laowa or Voightlander??? Do they have electronic contacts???) and do the same AF+MF and rotate the focus ring and press the AF button whether they will punch in or not.

[Mark Romero 2]

18 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

- About V-log: do you guys all shoot in V-log, are do you create a custom profile with contrast and noise reduction down? Looks like I get quite a bit of grain in V-log (coming from blackmagic film log)

I shoot in vlog if it is bright and contrasty. Otherwise I use 709-like.  I usually turn sharpness, saturation and contrast down. In resolve if using vlog I generally use fashion low contrast LUT or use a cst to go in to arri log c / arri gamma and from there in to rec 709 via Arri log to rec 709 lut.

PLEASE BE WARNED: I am NOT a master grader by any stretch of the imagination and 99% of the time I am just trying to "clean things up" when having to deal with mixed lighting temperatures and tints.

[herein2020]

14 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

@herein2020 great job on that shitty lights footage, nice grade! It looks like it was from an italian cinema masterpiece. Compliments to you but the camera as well.

The S1, S1H, S5 cameras are image quality wonders in the form factor of a prosumer camera. Hard to believe my eyes whenever I grade the footage coming from my S1.

Thanks, I feel the same way, it is just so easy to work with and the WFM always seems to say everything is within range. I shot a swimsuit shoot against a rising sun, no fill light not even a bounce and I was able to get the model's skin tones up to the low end of the IRE skin tones range without losing color while retaining the highlights in the background.....truly impressive, and DR is handling the footage so well, even the H.265 4K60FPS footage, that I stopped wishing I had raw to work with. Even after color grades, titles, adjustment clips, transitions, Fusion work, etc.....it still plays smoothly especially in the DR17 beta.

For me, Its even harder to believe that they are excellent stills cameras as well; in many ways better than my Canon 5DIV (flash sync speed, aspect ratio guide lines in camera, focus points edge to edge, intervalometer, integrated wireless flash trigger, etc.).  I need to dedicate a photo shoot one day to just using the S5, but I haven't had time. 

[zerocool22]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:41 PM, herein2020 said:

- I always shoot in VLOG, when color grading are you using a LUT or doing manual primaries correction? I've stopped using LUTS for primaries and get much better results simply grading by hand. In DR I create 3 nodes (primaries, curves, false color), I use the primaries node to set the Lift, Gamma, and Gain, I set Saturation to 90%, and I set Contrast to 1.17. I then fine tune the image in the curves node and check skin exposure using a false color LUT in the false color node.  I've attached a screen shot from a recent fashion show, showing before and after.  I have never had a BM so I don't know if the attached image has more grain than a BM in the same situation so I will let you be the judge of that. 

What really impressed me about the attached image is that I was able to recover the white balance. Someone turned on a very warm spotlight right as the show started and I did not have time to adjust the WB (the joys of shooting fashion shows). 

-For IS, with the Sigma adapter attached for some reason most of the modes get disabled for me and it doesn't seem to give me the option to turn off body IS. My Canon EF 24mm has lens IS and I haven't tested which is better, so I've just left everything at their defaults and it seems to all work itself out. 

-For S&Q I never use it, I shoot everything in 4K and mostly at 60FPS, I feel like all of the modes in the S&Q options are going to require that I deliver at 1080P so I haven't experimented with the modes.

-I don't use AF at all, since I can't use continuous AF with the adapter I just use hybrid AF.....so half press the shutter to get focus then MF from there.

-Depending on the lens the magnifier will automatically come on when you set the dial to MF and start turning the focus ring as long as you are not already recording. In the menus you can set the center button of the focus selector dial to magnify when in MF so that's how I have mine set. Some of my lenses like the Canon 24mm-105mm don't automatically magnify when I turn the focus ring but the EF Sigma 50mm does as long as the selector is in MF.

Gotta say, I hope they all got fined for not wearing any masks. Pretty weird sight for 2020.

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Gotta say, I hope they all got fined for not wearing any masks. Pretty weird sight for 2020.

I agree, but there are no restrictions or mandates in my area, only if you go inside of an establishment must you wear a mask and even that varies from city to city. 

[IronFilm]

Ditto, no restrictions whatsoever in my country either. 
(except recently a requirement was brought in for mask wearing on public transport)