Panasonic S5 User Experience

[kye]

On 1/19/2021 at 3:10 AM, BjornT said:

Anyone on here using S1 and S5 together as A and B cam? Pics below had identical camera settings and grade (the tighter shot is the S5 with the Lumix 85mm 1.8 and the wider shot the S1 with the lumix pro 24-70 2.8 at 70mm). Both are shot in Vlog and running latest firmware.

S5 is bluer and a tad brighter overall. I know lens makes a bit of difference but am quite surprised to see such differences considering it is supposedly the same sensor. One can make them match fairly easily in post at least but curious to hear if other people on this forum have noticed as I find very little online.

 

I wonder if this is the WB settings not being consistent?

If you do a custom WB do you still get the same colour temperature differences?

Begin tiny rant...
I see heaps of A vs B camera tests on YT and the WB is different between the cameras and all I can see is that the WB is wrong, so the test is basically useless.  People always say "identical settings and the same lens" (they normally film them one after the other so can re-use the same lens) but to me if the WB doesn't match then they can't be the same settings - WB is a setting!
End tiny rant...

If you did a custom WB and they still didn't match then I'd say that this would be a significant issue, considering that the specific colour temperatures aren't arbitrary, they will be defined in some physics text somewhere.

[BjornT]

No I have not done a custom WB and I never do as I always punch in the kelvin I want so in this case I put both cameras to 5600k manually and they dont match obviously. But maybe you are right and if I do custom WB for each they might match but still means setting same kelvins on both cameras won't match for future shoots which is what I would expect when same sensor.

[zerocool22]

21 minutes ago, BjornT said:

No I have not done a custom WB and I never do as I always punch in the kelvin I want so in this case I put both cameras to 5600k manually and they dont match obviously. But maybe you are right and if I do custom WB for each they might match but still means setting same kelvins on both cameras won't match for future shoots which is what I would expect when same sensor.

Well even the exact same cameras can have different wb. Had to correct a lot of ursa mini footage on set before or get them as close as possible.

[herein2020]

On 1/12/2021 at 3:57 PM, MrSMW said:

Doh, I wrote that before the coffee had kicked in this morning and for some reason was thinking exteriors...and then later thought, don’t be so dumb man, you intend to use the 20mm wide end for your interior bride prep room shots and that’s only just wide enough for stills.

So indeed, you really are looking at a 10mm or similar or not shooting 4K 60P, or even not the S5 at all.

Maybe with all that Canon Glass, R6 is a better option?

I finally got the Rokinon 10mm EF-S lens. I feel like I'm buying more and more glass for a dead mount but its still better than the alternative. I also wasn't sure that the Rokinon would work since the Canon 10mm-22mm EF-S lens that I use on my crop sensor Canon body does not work on the S5 (lens barrel is visible); but the Rokinon does work with no problem. I had a real estate shoot yesterday, and hauling around the GH5 just to do the interior was a pain, not to mention color grading it after and trying to match the S5 and drone footage. 

It looks like its finally time to sell the GH5 and all of my MFT lenses. The S5 is so impressive I am actually thinking about using the money to either get another S5 or an S1.  I feel like the minute I do though Panasonic will announce something even better...you know...like a working AF system that you can only get in their next version.

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, herein2020 said:

feel like the minute I do though Panasonic will announce something even better...you know...like a working AF system that you can only get in their next version.

Same as it ever was!

[kye]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Same as it ever was!

Yeah, tomorrow is the best predictor of tomorrow.

..or to put it another way, things change but not as fast as you'd like.

[MrSMW]

One bit of good news in this bleakest start to a year in my 1/2 century of life is my complimentary Sigma 45mm f2.8 turned up today.

VERY poor show from Panasonic UK/EU in the process of obtaining it. Company boycott territory and if it wasn’t the S5 being the current best option for me, I would have ditched them completely.

As things stand, because of their behavior, I am now sitting it out for a bit and seeing which way the wind blows in regard to my year and what Fuji do.

Looking forward to testing the 45 though and it’s certainly a nice looking lens, well built and AF seems quite snappy.

 

[herein2020]

11 hours ago, MrSMW said:

One bit of good news in this bleakest start to a year in my 1/2 century of life is my complimentary Sigma 45mm f2.8 turned up today.

VERY poor show from Panasonic UK/EU in the process of obtaining it. Company boycott territory and if it wasn’t the S5 being the current best option for me, I would have ditched them completely.

As things stand, because of their behavior, I am now sitting it out for a bit and seeing which way the wind blows in regard to my year and what Fuji do.

Looking forward to testing the 45 though and it’s certainly a nice looking lens, well built and AF seems quite snappy.

 

My 45mm showed up too, about 2 months after buying the S5, but it literally is still sitting on my desk without ever having been mounted on the S5.  The 20-60mm is sitting there beside it. After putting a base plate on the camera, the EF adapter will not come off unless you remove the base plate. One day I'm going to get around to trying out the 45mm and Continuous AF.

It will be interesting to see if  your AF tests with the 45mm yield better results than with the other lenses.

[ntblowz]

Did a shoot with my friend yesterday, he was using sigma 24mm with s5 and mars 300 for livestreaming on good old steadicam.

Definitely miss the look of steadicam, but I suck on balancing it so no go for me..

 

[herein2020]

On 1/23/2021 at 2:16 PM, ntblowz said:

Did a shoot with my friend yesterday, he was using sigma 24mm with s5 and mars 300 for livestreaming on good old steadicam.

Definitely miss the look of steadicam, but I suck on balancing it so no go for me..

 

I loved the idea of the steadycam but it just never worked for me. I could get it balanced, and it was great since it didn't need batteries, or calibration, or apps, etc,  you just grab it and go; but I work outdoors mostly and it can get very windy; I found it pretty much impossible to keep a level horizon when it was windy and so many of the moves that I can effortlessly make with a gimbal seemed impossible to do with the glidecam. I still want to master it one day to have more options on shoots but it will probably never happen. Instead I've gotten much better with the monopod and handheld; thanks to the S5's IBIS and Davinci Resolve's stabilization options I use the gimbal less and less.

[Mark Romero 2]

Is anyone using their S5 on a gimbal a lot??? (Heck, or even hand held a lot???)

I still keep thinking of getting one (as a B cam / gimbal cam to my S1), since the weight of the S1 plus Lumix 24-105 f/4 (or my Canon EF 16-35 f/4 L) makes it such a beast on the Weebill S that my hands get tired real quickly.

I guess my concern would be about how much having a flip-out screen affects the performance on a gimbal, and whether the smaller, lower LCD makes having an HDMI monitor that much more necessary.

Darn... lighter weight and smaller size vs 6K internal and timecode (in future firmware updates) makes choosing between an S5 and another S1 for a B Cam pretty tough.

[herein2020]

16 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Is anyone using their S5 on a gimbal a lot??? (Heck, or even hand held a lot???)

I still keep thinking of getting one (as a B cam / gimbal cam to my S1), since the weight of the S1 plus Lumix 24-105 f/4 (or my Canon EF 16-35 f/4 L) makes it such a beast on the Weebill S that my hands get tired real quickly.

I guess my concern would be about how much having a flip-out screen affects the performance on a gimbal, and whether the smaller, lower LCD makes having an HDMI monitor that much more necessary.

Darn... lighter weight and smaller size vs 6K internal and timecode (in future firmware updates) makes choosing between an S5 and another S1 for a B Cam pretty tough.

I shoot nearly exclusively hand held, on a gimbal, or on a monopod; I hardly ever use a tripod. The flip out screen is so useful it was the sole reason I did not seriously consider the S1 when it came out; I had gotten too used to the GH5's flip out screen. I have the Ronin S gimbal and for low shots it is a lifesaver, handheld is even better and even on a monopod when you are crammed into a corner somewhere and have to raise the camera above the crowd the flip out screen is great then too.

I never use an external monitor for any of my cameras except the C200 when it is locked down on a tripod; all I use are the tools on the S5's screen to pull focus, check exposure, WB, etc. and while not ideal, it gets the job done for me.

When the camera is on a gimbal the flip out screen is so light it doesn't affect it at all. I just balance it like normal with the screen not flipped out, then flip it out as needed during the shoot; it probably helps though that the Ronin S can carry far more weight than the S5.

 

 

[Mark Romero 2]

49 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

I shoot nearly exclusively hand held, on a gimbal, or on a monopod; I hardly ever use a tripod. The flip out screen is so useful it was the sole reason I did not seriously consider the S1 when it came out; I had gotten too used to the GH5's flip out screen. I have the Ronin S gimbal and for low shots it is a lifesaver, handheld is even better and even on a monopod when you are crammed into a corner somewhere and have to raise the camera above the crowd the flip out screen is great then too.

I never use an external monitor for any of my cameras except the C200 when it is locked down on a tripod; all I use are the tools on the S5's screen to pull focus, check exposure, WB, etc. and while not ideal, it gets the job done for me.

When the camera is on a gimbal the flip out screen is so light it doesn't affect it at all. I just balance it like normal with the screen not flipped out, then flip it out as needed during the shoot; it probably helps though that the Ronin S can carry far more weight than the S5.

Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

I think my Weebill s is not as strong as the Ronin s. 

I kind of dread using my S1 on a gimbal due to the weight and the length of the lens plus adapter (canon EF 16-35 f/4 L + MC-21)

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

I think my Weebill s is not as strong as the Ronin s. 

I kind of dread using my S1 on a gimbal due to the weight and the length of the lens plus adapter (canon EF 16-35 f/4 L + MC-21)

Yes, I have a lot of gripes about the Ronin S but I actually tested the C200 on it with the Sigma 18-35mm and it balanced it with no problems; so it definitely is incredibly strong.

I guarantee you that the S5 with the Rokinon 10mm F2.8 EF-S + MC-21 is far lighter than your current setup. I'm looking forward to testing this setup on my next real estate video shoot.

[Trankilstef]

I have come to a conclusion since a few days. As much as I love Panasonic cameras and the brand in general for what they give us in their cameras, I will sell my S1H and my S5 with the lenses. I am so many times in shooting situations that involves no possibility to reshoot the scene or heavy time constraints, and all by myself or in very small team, that I feel like a reliable AF would worth the features I may lose by switching. My current choice would be to buy a Sony A7sIII (2 years after I've left them because of the 8 bit codecs, ergonomics and the constantly delayed A7sIII). 
The Panasonic AF has really improved but still not reliable and predictable as Canon or Sony.
I considered the Canon R5 but the overheating and lack of affordable lenses just makes it hard to consider it. It would have been a great option as I take some stills pictures too professionally ( but not as much a I used to ). So I may end up with the Sony A7sIII and grab a A7IV for stills when it will come out.
I think about this since the end of November but I am now pretty sure I will take the plunge.

Panasonic (S1H but some points are still valid for my S5) : 

+ professional video tools (waveform, shutter angle, synchro scan)
+ more video options (6K, 4K DCI, Super 35 mode, etc.)
+ better ergonomics (button layout and menus)
+ no overheating at all
+ better manual focusing with native lenses (linear mode, choice of the focus throw length, focus clutch on the lens)
+ greatest screen articulation ever
+ anamorphic modes (though I don't use it)
+ world's leading stabilization system
+ ProRes RAW

- worst AF out of the major brands
- Slomo with S35 crop
- lens choice still very limited (not a lot of affordable lenses but it is a new system so...)
- rolling shutter still visible sometimes

Sony A7SIII ( in bold, what makes me want to switch ) :

+ best AF in the industry
+ slomo modes without crop
+ very very large selection of lenses including affordable but still very good ones from Samyang, Viltrox, Tamron, etc.
+ no visible rolling shutter (good for run and gun and post stabilization)
+ gyroscopic datas to stabilize in post (I saw some incredible results of this with their catalyst browse software)
+ no image quality loss when in slomo (even in 120p)
+ ProRes RAW
+ better battery life

- no 4K DCI nor S35 crop mode
- no real anamorphic modes 
- no shutter angle nor synchro scan
- less efficient IBIS (but compensated by the lack of rolling shutter so better post stabilized)

So yeah, I feel like everybody has its needs, and for my needs and my shooting situations, I really need to have more reliable AF and more lenses available. I was waiting for the Panasonic 1.8 primes but they're constantly delayed.
I don't have specific love for any company I just use whatever works for me, but if I would have to choose one brand that I really like it would be Panasonic. So really I'm not very happy to leave but they really need to fix this AF thing, not a problem for everyone but still this is an issue they really need to address.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Trankilstef said:

don't have specific love for any company

Same here, though a certain fondness for Fuji and Olympus.

Re. the AF, just to confirm that you are using native lenses aren’t you as in Panasonic rather than other L Mount?

I just tried my new Sigma 45mm f2.8 and similar to the Sigma 56mm f1.4, night and day difference compared with native.

I’m not tempted to switch to any brand because of that brand, but the new Sony has my eye.

But...and it’s a big BUT, the cost of the body alone would be about the same as a 3 body S5 and 4 prime kit.

For better AF and 4K 120p.

Needs and all that... Well arguably for me the latter is more a want than a need per se and it’s more a question of whether the AF with the S5 is good enough for my needs and the answer is yes, 95% of the time and can I get around that 5%?

Right now, it’s easy to get round that 5% as there’s no work!

If I was going to go anywhere, I think it would have to be Fuji and the XT4 based on my last near 10 years with them up to XT3.

Nikon have failed for me, Leica is just nuts pricing, Canon can go and do one and Sony have had compromises to date I haven’t liked.

If only the A7SIII had been 24mp eh?

[Trankilstef]

55 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Re. the AF, just to confirm that you are using native lenses aren’t you as in Panasonic rather than other L Mount?

I just tried my new Sigma 45mm f2.8 and similar to the Sigma 56mm f1.4, night and day difference compared with native.

Yes I'm using mostly the Panasonic 24-70 f2.8 so yeah I have Panasonic native lenses exclusively. I really noticed the gain in reliability in AF-C since the last few years, but as much as I don't really want to change I would see myself more efficient with a reliable AF. I'm not an AF advocate at all, cause I own a cinema lens kit and tend to use them quite much but I do know that in my workflow a good AF will help me get some shots more quickly and confidently.

 

55 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

If I was going to go anywhere, I think it would have to be Fuji and the XT4 based on my last near 10 years with them up to XT3.

Yes I have had numerous Fuji bodies (X100s, XT-2, XPro2, XT-3 and X100F) and I really like this brand like you. They are the only brand with Panasonic that I can feel connected to in some way.

 

55 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

If only the A7SIII had been 24mp eh?

That was a big issue for me first. But then I looked at my work lately and I really don't have a lot of photography gigs that requires large files or prints. My images ends up 90% of the time on Instagram and other social medias, and even for family, vacation, etc. the 12 MP are not a deal breaker for me. I do feel that it's enough in most situations. So yeah for jobs that will need more MP I would rent and wait til' the A7IV comes out. But for now it's okay the 12MP (for my specific use).

[zerocool22]

2 hours ago, Trankilstef said:

Yes I'm using mostly the Panasonic 24-70 f2.8 so yeah I have Panasonic native lenses exclusively. I really noticed the gain in reliability in AF-C since the last few years, but as much as I don't really want to change I would see myself more efficient with a reliable AF. I'm not an AF advocate at all, cause I own a cinema lens kit and tend to use them quite much but I do know that in my workflow a good AF will help me get some shots more quickly and confidently.

 

Yes I have had numerous Fuji bodies (X100s, XT-2, XPro2, XT-3 and X100F) and I really like this brand like you. They are the only brand with Panasonic that I can feel connected to in some way.

 

That was a big issue for me first. But then I looked at my work lately and I really don't have a lot of photography gigs that requires large files or prints. My images ends up 90% of the time on Instagram and other social medias, and even for family, vacation, etc. the 12 MP are not a deal breaker for me. I do feel that it's enough in most situations. So yeah for jobs that will need more MP I would rent and wait til' the A7IV comes out. But for now it's okay the 12MP (for my specific use).

I did not feel that big of a difference in AF with canon or native panny lenses for photography, which is why I will keep my EF lenses and sell my panny 85mm 1.8  as I can use my EF lenses on a bunch of other cameras(canon, red, panasonic,...) which I cannot say with the L lenses(allthough they are very little which is nice).

[Trankilstef]

7 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

I did not feel that big of a difference in AF with canon or native panny lenses for photography, which is why I will keep my EF lenses and sell my panny 85mm 1.8  as I can use my EF lenses on a bunch of other cameras(canon, red, panasonic,...) which I cannot say with the L lenses(allthough they are very little which is nice).

For photography maybe not huge difference but for continuous video autofocus, there is a big difference.

[TomTheDP]

I’d get the A7s3 if it didn’t have so much video noise reduction.