Panasonic S5 User Experience

[herein2020]

@Mark Romero 2 @MrSMW Ok, so I finally got around to turning focus peaking sensitivity to high and now the focus peaking is almost as good as the GH5 but IMO still not quite as good. At least it shows up now more often than it did before., I think part of the focus peaking issues are due to using EF lenses and the adapter.

[Thpriest]

4 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

@Mark Romero 2 @MrSMW Ok, so I finally got around to turning focus peaking sensitivity to high and now the focus peaking is almost as good as the GH5 but IMO still not quite as good. At least it shows up now more often than it did before., I think part of the focus peaking issues are due to using EF lenses and the adapter.

What settings are you now using? I find the peaking only seems to be visible when recording and not when focussing before recording. A bit weird.

[herein2020]

21 hours ago, Thpriest said:

What settings are you now using? I find the peaking only seems to be visible when recording and not when focussing before recording. A bit weird.

 

I have focus peaking sensitivity set to +2 Display Color Blue and Display While AFS ON.  For some reason the focus peaking works better when the shutter button is half pressed and when the lens switch is switched to MF or the back selector switch is set to MF. While the lens switch is set to AF or the back selector switch is set to C or S the focus peaking barely works or should I say it never works.

Since I don't have CAF with EF lenses my favorite focus peaking setup is to keep the lens switch to AF, the back selector switch to MF and hybrid AF to ON. This lets me get the most out of the focus peaking while still being able to focus by tapping the back of the screen; the only thing I lose with this setup is I can't half press the shutter to achieve AF.

[Mark Romero 2]

22 hours ago, herein2020 said:

 

I have focus peaking sensitivity set to +2 Display Color Blue and Display While AFS ON.  For some reason the focus peaking works better when the shutter button is half pressed and when the lens switch is switched to MF or the back selector switch is set to MF. While the lens switch is set to AF or the back selector switch is set to C or S the focus peaking barely works or should I say it never works.

Since I don't have CAF with EF lenses my favorite focus peaking setup is to keep the lens switch to AF, the back selector switch to MF and hybrid AF to ON. This lets me get the most out of the focus peaking while still being able to focus by tapping the back of the screen; the only thing I lose with this setup is I can't half press the shutter to achieve AF.

Thanks for the tip.

Didn't realize about the difference in focus peaking when doing that setup with Canon EF lenses (I use the EF 16-35 f/4 L on the MC-21 adapter on my S5 and S1).

I think also that setup you mentioned works for other manual focus aids such as punching in with the joystick... at least I remember that there after I changed the back switch from the MF position to AF-S position it wouldn't punch in anymore. Maybe that was just due to a setting somewhere. 

[herein2020]

I found a new quirk that I don't like with the S5, it doesn't seem like it is possible to see how much time is remaining on your memory cards if you are in one of the time limited modes.  This past weekend I had shot all morning and had a shoot that evening so I had no idea how much time I had remaining to record video on the SD cards. I couldn't find anywhere in the main menu, display screen, or the playback screen to show the time remaining.

I finally figured out that if I dropped down to one of the 8 bit modes it would show the amount of time remaining on the video cards. When the 10bit modes are selected the time remaining will only show the time limiter which is 30min.  Unfortunately the time remaining indicator in the 8 bit modes will only show the time remaining for that mode so if you are cutting it close you won't know your cards are getting low until the 30min limiter in the higher quality modes starts dropping for a reason other than the timer.

At the end of the day I discovered I had nothing to worry about, with a 256GB cards in the slots I still had 4hrs of recording time remaining after the morning shoot.

[Thpriest]

I have found that to be a wee bug too. I always have extra cards so it's not really a problem but it does mean I don't really know how much i have shot and how much i have space i have left.

But in general I'm really enjoying the camera and the image.

[herein2020]

18 hours ago, Thpriest said:

I have found that to be a wee bug too. I always have extra cards so it's not really a problem but it does mean I don't really know how much i have shot and how much i have space i have left.

But in general I'm really enjoying the camera and the image.

 

It's definitely a very minor issue, and the good thing is you can drop to an 8bit mode to get a rough estimate. That's another thing that is great about this camera as well; SD cards are so cheap and the video data rates are so low that it's almost a non issue, I have never filled up a 256GB card in one day with the S5.

Personally I hate swapping cards during a shoot so although I have spares I try to get large enough cards so that I never have to actually use them. All of my cameras right now have 256GB cards in them except the C200 which has 1TB CFE cards and 256GB SD cards for the 8bit footage.

The 512GB SD cards are now only $130 which is insanely cheap especially considering the prices of the types of cards required by cameras like the 1DX or the R5.

[Thpriest]

After shooting 3 weddings with the S5 I can say I'm pretty happy with the upgrade to FF over the GH5 and GH5S. I no longer worry about lowlight (the GH5S was always a static camera for me). The image is fantastic and I've only being using Natural (tweaked) so far. I had been worried about the EVF but it seems to be the same as the GH5's and so hasn't been a problem. I'm still adjusting my fingers to the camera and I'm a wee bit slower than usual but that's normal. I've mainly being using the 24-105 f4 and the 50 1.8. I've used the 20-60 a couple of times for some wide shots. I still haven't quite got the balance with the 24-105 and the IBIS, I've had a few jerky moments but I think it'll be ok once I've used it on a few more jobs. Shooting with the GH5 and the 10-25 became like second nature, an extension of me. I haven't got there yet but I see it coming soon. The image is very forgiving as well!

Now I'm looking either for a second S5 or a S1. I think the S1 would be good as it can shoot over 30mins in most settings and has the great EVF and better IBIS but the v90 SD cards and the CFexpress card prices are holding me back. I alway shot dual cards and I'd need to spend 400-500 on 2 128gb cards. That's a lot. The S5 would mean have 2 indentical cameras and batteries which is a plus but filming 10bit for long events is a miss.

Not sure which to go for!

[MrSMW]

If it was my decision, I’d go pair of S5’s as I prefer to use matching kit for all the reasons…except in my case that would be a pair of S1H’s with the S5 moving into the role of static longer stuff mainly.

But with this year as it is, I am still running the ‘mismatched’ pair of S1H and S5.

I did a 10 hour event a few weeks back exclusively with the 24-105 and really liked the combo…except for size. This was hybrid coverage and for the video side especially, handheld throughout, the OIS + IBIS combo was brilliant.

I then did an actual wedding myself! A real actual wedding after 46 postponed/canceled jobs, albeit just a small local affair.

I went with the combo of 28-70 as my primary lens on the S1H and 20-60 on the S5 and shot 95% of the day on the former, the S5 and 20 end only being for a handful of super wide shots. This was a stills only job.

But in approx 2 weeks, I have some proper weddings finally…

A 3 day hybrid job followed by a 2 day stills only event and I have nailed down my kit combo now for these as follows…

On the right hip, pulling video biased duty, is the S1H with Sigma 35mm f2 indoors switching to 65mm f2 out. Because I shoot 4k 50p, these lenses are more like using a 50mm and a 100mm which is the perfect fixed focal length indoor/outdoor pairing for me.

On the left hip, pulling stills biased duty, is the S5 with Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 pretty much all the time except when I need a wide angle when I will switch it for the 20-60.

With another 3 more jobs max the rest of this year, I can’t justify another S1H until next Spring and then the full line up will be:

S1H with Sig 35mm f2, hybrid.

S1H with Sig 65mm f2, hybrid.

S5 with either 20-60, 28-70, 24-105 depending on specific need such as in the hand for occasional wide angle stills or mainly static, unmanned, on a tripod recording up to 30 mins.

There is no place in my bag for the Sigma 45mm f2.8 and probably not the 28-70 either which is a shame as it’s probably the best all round lens after the 24-105, but I prefer primes.

I don’t think I’d use the 24-105 at weddings and really only keeping it in the car as an all purpose backup lens and for personal landscape work in the mountains.

The only potential change to the line up might be if Panny popped out an SH2 or an S5H for sale before the end of March 2022, but otherwise another used S1H it will be and I will run the above combo at least all of ‘22 and ‘23 for three principle reasons:

1: I am sick to death of playing around with various combos of kit which I would have been well past if this year (and last) had not been so shit, ie, the process has been dragged out far too long due to lack of opportunity and lack of finances.

2: Other than being less than stellar with forward and backwards video tracking, there is nothing else I need or want either within the system itself, or from any other manufacturer.

3: I am a big believer in nailing down the most minimalist kit that you can and then getting so familiar with it, using it becomes second nature and gets out of the way of the process of stills and video capture.

OK, I need another coffee, that was a lot of typing on a phone! 

[Thpriest]

I'm glad you've started getting weddings again! What a relief!

I've missed a couple of opportunities to buy a cheap second hand S1 as they were for sale a few hours drive away and I haven't been able to organise that.

But I think you are right that having 2 cameras that are the same has it's advantages, especially cards and batteries. So I'll probably go for another S5 unless I come across a bargain closer to home.

I'd love a S1H but the only one I've seen for sale a reasonable price is in the Canary Islands so once you factor in a flight it's not worth it. 

I agree that a S5H would be excellent. Pretty much an S5 with a fan, filter thingy (no moire) and no filming limits. The S1H2 would be a S1H with eND and 6k 50p, Prores and some internal raw contraption.

I have found the 24-105 to be a very handy video lens. It covers a lot of ground. The 50 1.8 is very nice but it's a shame that they have brought out the 2 longer lenses first rather than say the 85 and 35 or 50 and 24.

I like the look of the Sigma 28-70 2.8 but as I'm mainly shooting video I wonder how well the AFS and linear MF holds up compared to the Lumix lenses.

 

[MrSMW]

Well 2 weddings in approx 2 weeks time, 1 remaining Sep that has not postponed/cancelled and ditto 1 Oct so the absolute max for this year will be 4 from what should have been 30.

Still better than last years 1 single job that actually happened!

The only thing you don’t have really with another S5 is unlimited recording which personally doesn’t bother me, even with a church ceremony as at a convenient point, I just press stop and then immediately start again.

Or you can just drop to 8 bit I think which for something static…??

An S5H with even a modest AF improvement would be killer…except Panasonic Lumix continue to frustrate me in a couple of areas…

The AF, or perception of, is of course their principal Achilles heel.

The negativity and misconception especially on YouTube is so grossly wrong but Panny have done nothing in my eyes to address this.

Which leads into their marketing in general, but especially with YouTube which just cannot be ignored or underestimated these days.

Compared with all the other major brands, they are by far the weakest in the area of marketing.

Add AF to marketing and no wonder their sales are lowest if the big 5.

And then these 4 prime lenses…

85 first was a bit odd.

I would have gone 35, 50, 24, 85…or better still, just launched them all together.

WTF is taking so long?!

Had they been available, I would have bought all 4 and used the pairing of 24 + 50 indoors and 35 + 85 out.

They look visually a bit crap, but the performance is superb, especially for the money.

But I have been driven into the arms of Sigma.

Drop .2 of a stop in aperture, but real world the f2’s are the same.

Looks are a personal thing, but IMO they visually look superb as is the quality of image coming out of them.

The 28-70 gets mixed reviews. It seems the Sony users/reviewers seem to rate it anywhere from average to good but L Mount users as good to excellent.

I love it and use it as a twin prime lens using it only as a 28 or a 70 indoors (takes some self-discipline!) or in APSC crop mode outdoors as a ‘40mm’ or a ‘105mm’ with the crop only being in camera and then in post if you want it (with stills) because of course with raw, you are getting the FF file to work with.

It’s not quite as ‘jewel like’ as the 35mm f2 or 65mm f2, but not far off and the zoom extension is very minimal. I hate externally zooming lenses! 

In conclusion, as I said above, Lumix continue to frustrate me as a company.

On paper and I think in reality, they do have the best pound for pound cameras currently available in the S5 and the S1 line, but they only have themselves to blame sales-wise they are not sitting at the top table with Sony & Canon.

[herein2020]

On 8/10/2021 at 4:55 PM, Thpriest said:

 I've mainly being using the 24-105 f4 and the 50 1.8.

Now I'm looking either for a second S5 or a S1. I think the S1 would be good as it can shoot over 30mins in most settings and has the great EVF and better IBIS but the v90 SD cards and the CFexpress card prices are holding me back. I alway shot dual cards and I'd need to spend 400-500 on 2 128gb cards. That's a lot. The S5 would mean have 2 indentical cameras and batteries which is a plus but filming 10bit for long events is a miss.

Not sure which to go for!

I find myself using those exact same two lenses the most as well. I use the Sigma EF 50mm 1.4 for lowlight, detail shots, and shallow DOF shots, I use the 24mm EF 2.8 Prime lens for all gimbal work, and I use the EF 24-105mm for everything else. All of that gets cropped by a factor of 1.5 when filming 60FPS which I frequently do.

I'm with you on the media as well, it is so annoying to have mismatched cards or bitrates at 400mb/s requiring 2x+ more expensive media. The footage from the S5 more than meets the needs of my type of client.

As far as shooting over 30min, the S5 still has the 8bit modes to shoot longer, and they really are good enough for most situations. I shot with the GH5 and only 8bit for years; as long as you nail the WB and exposure 8bit is plenty for most situations. I do also love the VLOG, if you haven't tried it yet you really are missing out; its incredible how much you can push and pull the LOG footage in post even though it is compressed.

With my Davinci Resolve workflow, I can grade VLOG footage in seconds.

[TomTheDP]

On 8/10/2021 at 4:55 PM, Thpriest said:

After shooting 3 weddings with the S5 I can say I'm pretty happy with the upgrade to FF over the GH5 and GH5S. I no longer worry about lowlight (the GH5S was always a static camera for me). The image is fantastic and I've only being using Natural (tweaked) so far. I had been worried about the EVF but it seems to be the same as the GH5's and so hasn't been a problem. I'm still adjusting my fingers to the camera and I'm a wee bit slower than usual but that's normal. I've mainly being using the 24-105 f4 and the 50 1.8. I've used the 20-60 a couple of times for some wide shots. I still haven't quite got the balance with the 24-105 and the IBIS, I've had a few jerky moments but I think it'll be ok once I've used it on a few more jobs. Shooting with the GH5 and the 10-25 became like second nature, an extension of me. I haven't got there yet but I see it coming soon. The image is very forgiving as well!

Now I'm looking either for a second S5 or a S1. I think the S1 would be good as it can shoot over 30mins in most settings and has the great EVF and better IBIS but the v90 SD cards and the CFexpress card prices are holding me back. I alway shot dual cards and I'd need to spend 400-500 on 2 128gb cards. That's a lot. The S5 would mean have 2 indentical cameras and batteries which is a plus but filming 10bit for long events is a miss.

Not sure which to go for!

Why would you need v90 cards? V30 works fine for me in all the recording modes including 4k 60p and 6k.

[herein2020]

3 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Why would you need v90 cards? V30 works fine for me in all the recording modes including 4k 60p and 6k.

In the GH5 with V30 cards I could not shoot ALL-I, it would fail to record after about 30s or so; all other modes I didn't have that issue.

[MrSMW]

On 8/11/2021 at 11:06 PM, Thpriest said:

But I think you are right that having 2 cameras that are the same has it's advantages, especially cards and batteries. So I'll probably go for another S5 unless I come across a bargain closer to home.

I just took my own advice.

I didn't want to buy another S5 but after running some final tests today ahead of what will be this season's weddings which stands at 4 remaining from what should have been30 (if they all happen and they all say they are going ahead so...) I came to the conclusion that the ZV1 is not up to it's role.

I won't bore you with why, but I'm beginning to go off this camera for anything really, - photo, video and especially audio.

OK, it's not meant to be a pro bit of kit but cash-strapped times and all that.

The main problem is that when you have an S5 and an S1H in the stable, anything the ZV1 produces is not going to compare, but the fact is, it's a gulf not a gap.

Decided to just push the button on that second S1H as prices are so good right now...except the last one for sale in all of the EU it seems, has gone. That's anything 'like new/excellent' under 2500 euros, all sold 😞

Bugger.

So another (used) S5 it is, purely for the static role of ceremony, speeches, entrances and exits and with the 24-105mm f4 because on a tripod, is the only place I feel this combo is a good match ergonomically.

Nope, didn't want an S1, - that would mean 3 different bodies. S1R ditto.

Sigma don't have anything camera-wise that fits my needs and Leica at this time in my life, are beyond my budget even though would be a nice itch to scratch one day...

The ultimate deciding factor for me was I could cobble something together and transplant audio from the pocket recorders and lav mics etc, but I'd rather...after closing on 2 years of next to fuck all, at least get the 4 highest quality sets of results ahead of next years full on season.

 

[Thpriest]

where were you seeing those S1Hs? I'd really like an S1H!

I rented the S1 last weekend. I liked it's weight but it's true I only used it when everyone was dinning. For the rest of the wedding I used the S5. I don't know if it'd get tiring using it all day.

[herein2020]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I just took my own advice.

I didn't want to buy another S5 but after running some final tests today ahead of what will be this season's weddings which stands at 4 remaining from what should have been30 (if they all happen and they all say they are going ahead so...) I came to the conclusion that the ZV1 is not up to it's role.

I won't bore you with why, but I'm beginning to go off this camera for anything really, - photo, video and especially audio.

OK, it's not meant to be a pro bit of kit but cash-strapped times and all that.

The main problem is that when you have an S5 and an S1H in the stable, anything the ZV1 produces is not going to compare, but the fact is, it's a gulf not a gap.

Decided to just push the button on that second S1H as prices are so good right now...except the last one for sale in all of the EU it seems, has gone. That's anything 'like new/excellent' under 2500 euros, all sold 😞

Bugger.

So another (used) S5 it is, purely for the static role of ceremony, speeches, entrances and exits and with the 24-105mm f4 because on a tripod, is the only place I feel this combo is a good match ergonomically.

Nope, didn't want an S1, - that would mean 3 different bodies. S1R ditto.

Sigma don't have anything camera-wise that fits my needs and Leica at this time in my life, are beyond my budget even though would be a nice itch to scratch one day...

The ultimate deciding factor for me was I could cobble something together and transplant audio from the pocket recorders and lav mics etc, but I'd rather...after closing on 2 years of next to fuck all, at least get the 4 highest quality sets of results ahead of next years full on season.

 

 

 That's pretty cool that you are using the S5 in so many different roles, when you have completed a wedding with the S5 I'd love to see the results.  I tried the S5 for a few photos because I'd love to stop hauling around my 5DIV for shoots that are 90% video, but the S5 feels so awkward and foreign to me in photo mode that I am still hauling the 5DIV to every shoot that has a chance of needing images.

 I need to do an actual fashion or modeling or event shoot complete with different flashes, remote triggers, and lens setups to see if I can get used to the S5 for photos but my 5DIV literally feels like an extension of my own arm so its hard to even try anything else especially with the client standing there waiting for the next shot.

[Thpriest]

The 3 weddings I have done with the S5 have been in a tweaked natural profile. I'm going to try Cine D this weekend to see how it looks.

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, Thpriest said:

The 3 weddings I have done with the S5 have been in a tweaked natural profile. I'm going to try Cine D this weekend to see how it looks.

I'm surprised you have not tried LOG yet, its fantastic. The WFM makes exposing it so easy and Davinci Resolve makes color grading it just as easy.

[Thpriest]

Spanish weddings are very chaotic affairs! The reasons I haven't used VLOG is that having to be extra careful with exposure is difficult (think extreme sun and shade) and I prefer to not have to adjust every clip in post. Nobody pays enough for that here.