iPhone 12 Pro Max - "ProRAW" and 5 axis IBIS

[Andrew Reid]

Pretty amazing

https://www.eoshd.com/news/iphone-12-pro-max-marches-into-enthusiast-and-pro-photography-territory-with-new-apple-proraw-lidar-dolby-vision-and-large-sensor/

[Emanuel]

Yes, it is... Pity they don't implement 4K 120fps already available on the new ASUS, though : X

 

[p@a]

Good news for democratizing video acquisition. Apple mentions the Xfactor show using iPhones while in confinement to make ends meet.

[sanveer]

Why do you think Apple chose the 10-bit Dolby Vision over the 10-bit HDR10+? Do you think they've improved their video quality further? Slightly more dynamic range and maybe multi frame 10-bit? Apple seems to be be hiding some features and some tricks of the processor too. Maybe they will announce them later or they were trying to make all the phones appear similar (instead of actually 2 completely different generations of smartphones, based on camera alone). 

[Geoff CB]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

Why do you think Apple chose the 10-bit Dolby Vision over the 10-bit HDR10+? Do you think they've improved their video quality further? Slightly more dynamic range and maybe multi frame 10-bit? Apple seems to be be hiding some features and some tricks of the processor too. Maybe they will announce them later or they were trying to make all the phones appear similar (instead of actually 2 completely different generations of smartphones, based on camera alone). 

Possible answer, Dolby paid them. I'm someone who thinks the Dolby Vision workflow is incredible, doing HDR and SDR in single grading pass is witchcraft but their system pulls it off,  only problem with it is it is proprietary and expensive. 

[Nerv]

its funny but last i checked i thought glass was the most important part of a good image.  why buy Zeiss Master Primes when you can use the plastic lens of a smartphone. it will be a sad day when processed images of a phone will mimic pro equipment...

[newfoundmass]

These specs always sound good, but when a client actually sends me video from their iPhone to use in a project it always looks soft. Granted, they're not professionals, but I've never really been blown away by video shot on any phone. 

[Yurolov]

I think if the results aren't world-beating for this iteration, they will be very soon. The dangerous thing for the camera industry is that the biggest player has now set its sights on the enthusiast market and has marked its intention to go after it, and 100% apple will not lose this battle as it can crush the japanese companies very easily.  

[John Matthews]

Am I the only one saddened by AI? What ever happened to a good-old-fashioned camera? I don't want camera's inventing the experience, regardless the quality increase. I know you're going to say: "cameras already do that!" However, there's such a thing as the heavy-handed approach and the subtle approach- I prefer the latter. I'm actively trying to find ways to eliminate the smart phone completely from my life while others are trying to further (and willingly?) addict themselves.

[Anaconda_]

57 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

I'm actively trying to find ways to eliminate the smart phone completely from my life while others are trying to further (and willingly?) addict themselves.

But then how will you put your photos on Instagram? What's the point in taking them if you can't get loads of likes.

[zerocool22]

There is massive value in these smartphone camera's though, it fits your pocket. Its truly a pocket camera, battery life is amazing, low weight, sharing your photo's is fast and easy and you have it always on you.
For taking pictures of the kids during the day nothing is easier, or when doing a hike or climbing a mountain, you do not want to carry any more weight then you should. People are cutting their toothbrush in 2 to save weight, think about how many toothbrushes you are carrying along when you are hiking with a dslr/mirrorless, battery and a lens. 

Allthough I do not see them replacing any pro shoots, imagine walking into a set, everybody is looking at you. And you flop out an iphone instead of an actual camera. Besides quality there is always the perceived value of customers when you set up an alexa/RED any big camera.

[zerocool22]

I think chivo earned a pretty penny for this one. 

[zerocool22]

Allthough it was not great. Looks like on the video side they are still some years behind mirrorless/dslr's and cinema camera's. 

[BenEricson]

23 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

I think chivo earned a pretty penny for this one. 

I guess the camera does actually matter! 😬

[zerocool22]

1 minute ago, BenEricson said:

I guess the camera does actually matter! 😬

Offc it does, Deakins also stated a couple of times that he would shoot a smartphone if they asked for it. But I bet he wont get any nominations for best cinematography if he uses one. Or even better, he might pull it off and win. 

[John Matthews]

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

There is massive value in these smartphone camera's though, it fits your pocket. Its truly a pocket camera, battery life is amazing, low weight, sharing your photo's is fast and easy and you have it always on you.
For taking pictures of the kids during the day nothing is easier, or when doing a hike or climbing a mountain, you do not want to carry any more weight then you should. People are cutting their toothbrush in 2 to save weight, think about how many toothbrushes you are carrying along when you are hiking with a dslr/mirrorless, battery and a lens. 

Allthough I do not see them replacing any pro shoots, imagine walking into a set, everybody is looking at you. And you flop out an iphone instead of an actual camera. Besides quality there is always the perceived value of customers when you set up an alexa/RED any big camera.

Reminds me when air-conditioned computer server rooms at universities were getting replaced with a small beige box in the 90s. University presidents were probably thinking they got scammed big-time! Customers will probably always prefer the bigger camera.

Remember (in stating the obvious):

1. The human hand will not change in size. Phones will be awkward to use.
2. The human eye will not suddenly see more. Other than their size advantage to fit in small places and their carry-everywhere nature, their resolution will be matched by a proper cinema camera.
3. The human ear will not suddenly hear more or better. Phones again are awkward for audio.
4. The story is and will always be king... no one cares about great quality crap (but I can think of a few films where this is not true).

[Geoff CB]

2 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

I think chivo earned a pretty penny for this one. 

That really did not look good to me. Pretty scenery sure, but the image itself didn't blow me away. Overly sharpened with a high shutter speed, surprised he didn't use an ND on it. 

[sanveer]

7 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Possible answer, Dolby paid them. I'm someone who thinks the Dolby Vision workflow is incredible, doing HDR and SDR in single grading pass is witchcraft but their system pulls it off,  only problem with it is it is proprietary and expensive. 

Interesting argument and I agree with you. Dolby seems to have very little penetration,  and only seems to be encouraged by corporates that take something in return to promote propreitory and semi monopolistic standards.

 

2 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Allthough it was not great. Looks like on the video side they are still some years behind mirrorless/dslr's and cinema camera's. 

Maybe there is a sweet spot between sensor size and computational photography, where images have enough detail, and (non artifical)  sharpness to make them look good on large monitors, TVs and screens. With the right algorithms, dynamic range, lowlight and other things can be compensated for/improved substantially on smaller sensors. But there is this strange softness, lack of detail and even dullness that smaller sensors have. Some of that may obviously have to do with optics (glass vs plastic lenses, and small sized lenses, in general). 

I am guessing that sweet spot is very close to the 1/1.33" 108MP Nonacall Samsung sensor (creating 12MP images) and the 1inch 20MP sensor found in many Sony point and shoot cameras (RX100 series). Also, if someone like DXO Mark tested smartphone lenses for MP counts, it could help understand what's causing the lack of detail, in the final image. 

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, BenEricson said:

I guess the camera does actually matter! 😬

Looks very mobile video like, regardless of the super expensive lenses and very large lighting setup (and reflectors) used. 

[Trek of Joy]

I'm going to upgrade from my 2-year-old XS max to the Pro. HDR image looks great without the sun in the frame - which is especially tough on the small phone sensor. The new processor and Lumafusion/FCPx will be nice for editing h265 from my drone and a7s3 on the go. Any camera/video improvements are welcome since I do use my phone a lot for social content creation. Stabilization could come in handy as I'm tired of carrying a phone gimbal. Raw without using a 3rd party app is nice. But the hardware means more to me, and this looks like a real upgrade compared to the 11.

I do wish they moved to a USB-c connector though. Not a dealbreaker since I already own lightning stuff, but would be nice to standardize everything across the lines.

Chris