Fuji GFX 100 loses to Huawei P40 Pro Plus smartphone for dynamic range

[Andrew Reid]

Have smartphones overtaken the best medium format cameras for dynamic range?

This is a comparison that should worry everybody in the camera industry.

Full blog post:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/fuji-gfx-100-loses-to-huawei-p40-pro-plus-smartphone-for-dynamic-range/

[keessie65]

Samsung left camerabusiness because they moved to mobile phones with cameras. Now Huawei is the big winner 😉

[joenyc]

Wow. Does it work with moving subjects?

[Video Hummus]

Isn’t the smartphone just doing auto-magic photo bracketing? Which could be done manually with the GFX 100, albeit with a lot more work. Seems kinda unfair to the GFX 100 merely on a technical standpoint (not on a user experience standpoint). Which means the smartphone took more than one photo, perhaps up to 5, compared to the GFX 100’s 1 RAW.

It’s surprising to me camera companies have not embraced this “in camera” processing more, even for special “auto” modes where the user just wants the camera to do everything.

Regardless, this is a good example of why camera sales have plummeted in the consumer market. It all comes down to the user experience and the smartphone, in this case, clearly provided the better user experience. If you were to repeat the test and bracket 3 RAW photos from the GFX 100 the results would be superior.

[Andrew Reid]

Yes of course it's multiple frames at different exposes fused together. Tap the shutter button and it's done for you, by a neural network no-less, with AI. And certainly more than just 3 frames fused together, due to the speed of the sensor.

The GFX 100 burst isn't fast enough for this to work.

It does show that small, fast smartphone sensors can overcome shortcomings like dynamic range, with computational photography.

They have never been able to beat a medium format camera, massive 44x33mm sensor with 100 megapixel before.

The Huawei is the first to do this.

[Andrew Reid]

The medium format level dynamic range seems to extend into portrait / aperture mode as well on the P40 Pro Plus... which is very unusual for a smartphone.

The depth map computations AND the multiple frame merges all done at once in a fraction of a second.

Here's the result...

[JayCole]

Since this is definitely the result of the smartphone combining multiple images, competing with this in stills is a matter of bracketing.

For video, I imagine there may be various schemes. Picture a big ugly Franken-Camera with a main sensor and a smaller secondary sensor to grab the highlights. Something like an A7s iii with a NEX riding in a ‘sidecar’. Unwieldy, complicated, and totally uncompromising; exactly the king of thing that is at home on a film set.

I am also reminded of Fuji’s old multi-size pixel sensors in the Nikon-bodied Finepix line. They were stills only, but they were claimed to be magic sauce by many wedding photogs in the mid 2000s.

[zerocool22]

What about video DR? As there is prolly not any bracketing taking place, the non smartphones might have the upperhand again.

[MrSMW]

The camera industry should respond by having phone tech built into the camera.

I have always thought that we are heading towards one multipurpose device so the above comment is not that ridiculous.

[Snowfun]

37 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The camera industry should respond by having phone tech built into the camera.

The RED Hydrogen tried... unfortunately the camera module never appeared and it all rather fizzled out. 

[MrSMW]

Ah. Maybe if a more mainstream manufacturer tried the outcome might be different.

I have always quite fancied a high end phone with lens attachment and grip etc, but then the cost wasn't that different from am equally capable compact which in itself, is more convenient.

But it's an inevitable fact that tech in phones is closing the gap on 'large glass' camera/lenses so the 'answer' for the industry is on the skills side, - being able to offer something that tech cannot compensate for.

[Stab]

Impressive. 

And how is it for video? 

Probably cannot do all these tricks on the fly in video mode yet and still look great. But... Give it a couple of years and it will be able to. 

Computational cameras are the future. And everyone will have an alexa micro in their hands in a couple of years. 

With probably a lot of tools that aid regular folks to make better shots. 

[Nerv]

Again, the lens is the most important part of an image

[Video Hummus]

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The GFX 100 burst isn't fast enough for this to work.

Perhaps a FF camera then. Why can’t Sony do this in their A9? 20fps too slow?

They can do it, the camera companies are just purists when it comes to taking photos it seems 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Nerv said:

Again, the lens is the most important part of an image

Respectfully, it’s not.

The lens is just one part of the equation.

You can put great glass on a shit camera and it’s still a shit camera just as a shit lens on a great camera is still a shit lens.

A great photographer with an average camera will always out-shoot a complete muppet with uber-expensive kit.

I will put skills before kit every time.

But phones, some of them are looking a bit good and I’m one of those people that went to just using my phone over a camera...but gone back to camera despite the ‘inconvenience’.

Can’t deny the capability of some phones these days in the right hands however. There’s some great stuff in another thread on this forum.

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, Stab said:

Impressive. 

And how is it for video? 

Probably cannot do all these tricks on the fly in video mode yet and still look great. But... Give it a couple of years and it will be able to. 

Computational cameras are the future. And everyone will have an alexa micro in their hands in a couple of years. 

With probably a lot of tools that aid regular folks to make better shots. 

Yes it does all the tricks on the fly. Video dynamic range is very similar to the stills mode.

Doesn't shoot hybrid LOG gamma like the Xperia 1 II though.

[Nikkor]

This only shows that PC raw conversion softwares are getting old, generally speaking they suck at handling HDR, no matter if it's from a 16bit sensor or multiple exposures..

[nickname]

How do the 100% crops look? 

[Wan Taquddin]

I think modern phone sensors actually use single shoot, but with varying exposure time, eg quarter pixels exposed for +1ev, another quarter pixels exposed for -1ev etc. Therefire much less ghosting compare to traditional bracketing. Then HDR-processed by smartphone's powerful ISP. If the scene is bright enough eg daylight, bracketing still used in tandem to further increase DR.

[Andrew Reid]

31 minutes ago, Wan Taquddin said:

I think modern phone sensors actually use single shoot, but with varying exposure time, eg quarter pixels exposed for +1ev, another quarter pixels exposed for -1ev etc. Therefire much less ghosting compare to traditional bracketing. Then HDR-processed by smartphone's powerful ISP. If the scene is bright enough eg daylight, bracketing still used in tandem to further increase DR.

Thanks for the explanation.

It's a 50MP Quad Bayer sensor in the phone, almost 1" size.

Quad Bayer can use Dual ISO in one exposure, the pixels at different exposures are merged in the 12MP shot.

Also it is RYYB. The yellow diodes let in more light than traditional Green ones with bayer sensors.

Then there is neural network and AI processing side.

And probably a very high speed readout in some modes with multiple frame merges.

Smartphones are leading the way for camera technology at the moment.