Who is going modular? C70, Komodo, BGH1, ZCam, etc...

[kye]

Seems like lots of new affordable modular cinema cameras have come out, with some cool specs like 4K120 or 4K60 10-bit, etc....  or even just getting FF video without a crop, overheating, or crippled codecs.

So, who is going modular?

How are you finding the transition?

My most recent acquisition was a BMMCC and my first modular setup, and I found that getting used to having a separate monitor, needing multiple batteries, cables and cable management, as well as having to rely on a rig just for ergonomics were all a bit of a PITA actually.  Plus, despite the BMMCC being really small, and paired with a tiny monitor, the whole rig gets large pretty quickly.

and considering that we can't talk about modular cameras without showing awesome pictures of rigs, here's the BMMCC in my sunset configuration:

[PannySVHS]

Lovely, now put some Zeiss Tevidons to use with it and show off this beauty with some tasty 60fps CDNG Raw!:)

Is the HDMI a full size port? BMMCC is one of the vintage cameras like the Sony F3 which have risen in prices again over the last months. There is some mojo to them as many have stated before on this forum. I personally would have loved a 60p variante of the BMCC 2.5K!

[herein2020]

I used to think modular was the way to go since the rig could get so small, but after seeing how much was needed to make it usable I now know hybrid meets my needs better.
 

Also, I saw you included the C70 in your modular list....in my opinion it is too complete to be considered modular. With the C70 you can just add a lens and batteries then go shoot.

[zerocool22]

Setup times are important, putting a monitor on your camera when you pull it out of your backpack does take some time and you might loose a cool shot + its not fun, I would rather be tempted to leave the camera at home/hotel. Putting it away in your backpack with the monitor still attached it might hurt the sdi/hdmi connector.

But I do really like the komodo, if I did this thing full time  I would def get one. And get a bunch of other cameras as well.

[barefoot_dp]

I went Z-Cam earlier this year.

I was planning to go with the UMP G2 but then Covid happened and all my work dried up so that went on hold. When it started up again, I decided to grab the Z-Cam E2-S6 instead as it covered a lot of the same bases (my prerequisites were Prores, 4K100p, Internal ND & v-mount power option) for a lot less money. It was also a small, lightweight package that I didn't have to spend half a day prepping/packing/charging/rigging before a shoot. This was important for me as when bookings started to come back, they were a lot different and instead of being multiple-day crewed shoots plus travel they mostly became local half-day affairs with no other crew. I needed something where I could instantly say yes when I'd get called and asked to do a 3-hour shoot the following morning, and still know it would be worthwhile and effortless and that I could get everything prepped in time easily. The camera sits on my desk or shelf and when I have a small shoot, I just put a battery on the charger the night before and then I'm good to go for about 6 hours of shooting - no other prep required.

While the camera has served its purpose for this - especially once I had a decent handheld rig - It has its shortcomings. The eND kit which I ordered in May is still backordered so I'm stuck with rectangle filters for now (in a Tilta mini matte box). Some of the controls are clunky. Audio is a pain - the mini-XLR breakaway cable I have does not fit when using my v-mount plate, so I've got a Zoom H5 due this week, which I plan to mostly use a mixer & pre-amp (rather than purely as a recorder).  I've had a few producers ask me what camera I shoot with and they've never heard of the Z-Cam - though luckily this didn't lose me any of the jobs because most of the work lately is local and I'm in a regional market so I'm often their only option (unless they want a hybrid shooter who can't do sound or lighting).

The image is fantastic though. I don't shoot charts or do tests, but for actual in-the-field performance it is great - there's never been a time when the image quality has been the limiting factor in any way - and there's not many cameras under $10K where that can be said.

[KnightsFan]

I also got a Z Cam E2M4, though somewhat unwillingly if I'm honest. I got it for the image quality, frame rate options, and wireless control. If such a thing existed, I might have gotten a DSLR-shaped E2*. However, the benefit of the boxy shape is it's easier to balance on a gimbal, and I do intend to swap out the mount for a turbomount at some point, which is a useful modularity. I also really appreciate the NPF sled, which lasts forever without the bulk and extra accessories for V mount. The other aspect that I really like are the numerous 1/4-20 mounts. I generally use the camera pretty bare, but I have a NATO rail on either side and can slip on handles in 2 seconds for a wide, stable grip. A DSLR would need a cage for that.

Most of the annoyances with DSLR-shaped camera come down to photo-oriented design, not the than non-modular design. Lack of easy, locking power connectors, lack of timecode, fiddly HDMI D ports, incomprehensible menus, lack of NDs--all could be solved while maintaining a traditional DSLR shape, and some camers do come along with some of them from time to time.

On the other hand, cameras like the FS7 and C100 are packed with nice features, but I really don't use any of them apart from ND's and they just make for obnoxiously large bodies that are even harder and more expensive to use. My perspective though is from narrative shoots where we spend more time on rehearsals and lights than anything else, so we're never concerned with setup times for the camera.

 

*before anyone mentions the GH5S, the E2's image is much nicer in my opinion and has way more video perks.

[kye]

On 11/6/2020 at 6:26 PM, PannySVHS said:

Lovely, now put some Zeiss Tevidons to use with it and show off this beauty with some tasty 60fps CDNG Raw!:)

Is the HDMI a full size port? BMMCC is one of the vintage cameras like the Sony F3 which have risen in prices again over the last months. There is some mojo to them as many have stated before on this forum. I personally would have loved a 60p variante of the BMCC 2.5K!

Yes, full sized HDMI port.  

It's funny - I have four cameras and (IIRC) all / most of them have full-sized HDMI connectors.  Canon 700D, Canon XC10, GH5, and BMMCC.  Of course, this is pure coincidence.

Yes, I'm told it has heaps of Mojo, but I'm yet to really get to the bottom of that.  

On 11/7/2020 at 5:36 AM, herein2020 said:

I used to think modular was the way to go since the rig could get so small, but after seeing how much was needed to make it usable I now know hybrid meets my needs better.
 

Also, I saw you included the C70 in your modular list....in my opinion it is too complete to be considered modular. With the C70 you can just add a lens and batteries then go shoot.

Same for me - its crazy that the BMMCC is so much smaller than the GH5 and yet rigged up its considerably larger.

The C70 is an odd one.  I suspect that most people that invest that amount and shoot with something that big would add a cage / monitor / audio something anyway, thus it's kind of modular by use rather than by design.  Technically you're right, although a C70+lens+mic would be as large as my BMMCC rig!

On 11/7/2020 at 3:17 PM, zerocool22 said:

Setup times are important, putting a monitor on your camera when you pull it out of your backpack does take some time and you might loose a cool shot + its not fun, I would rather be tempted to leave the camera at home/hotel. Putting it away in your backpack with the monitor still attached it might hurt the sdi/hdmi connector.

But I do really like the komodo, if I did this thing full time  I would def get one. And get a bunch of other cameras as well.

Setup times are important, absolutely.  I saw a great video of some folks that went to Antarctica with a top-of-the-line cinema setup (something like a C700 or Venice with a huge all-in-one cine zoom) and they didn't want to have to rig up while standing on a beach with the penguins, etc.  Their solution (not new) was to get a hard equipment case that could be modified to fit the rig in its fully assembled state.  They used the case for accessories during the travel legs, but once they were on the ship they reconfigured it to house the assembled rig (IIRC it was minus the matte box) and then used that for going ashore.  Then they just put the matte box on the front, put it on the tripod and they were off to the races.

For my purposes I keep my setup (GH5 + Rode VMP + wrist-strap) in one hand the whole time and then I can turn it on and hit record during the motion of raising it up to my face, where the other hand does manual focus and I get the shot.  I've included a number of shots in my final edits that were time stretched out to a couple of seconds because the time between my acquiring focus and when the moment ended was under 10 frames, and sometimes only a couple of frames.

The Komodo does look pretty cool.

22 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

I went Z-Cam earlier this year.

 

4 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

I also got a Z Cam E2M4, though somewhat unwillingly if I'm honest.

Z-Cam is interesting.  I've watched a number of reviews and sample footage from Sidney Baker Green on YT (https://www.youtube.com/user/sidneybakergreen) who has a Z-Cam and is a pretty good colourist.  His take on it was that the image is pretty good, but the product isn't that refined yet and has small foibles, and the user experience isn't that great with things like the manuals not being kept up-to-date and support really being via user groups.

I've really liked the images I've seen from them.  Assuming they continue and get more refined over time they look like a pretty good brand.

 

[barefoot_dp]

2 hours ago, kye said:

Z-Cam is interesting.  I've watched a number of reviews and sample footage from Sidney Baker Green on YT (https://www.youtube.com/user/sidneybakergreen) who has a Z-Cam and is a pretty good colourist.  His take on it was that the image is pretty good, but the product isn't that refined yet and has small foibles, and the user experience isn't that great with things like the manuals not being kept up-to-date and support really being via user groups.

I've really liked the images I've seen from them.  Assuming they continue and get more refined over time they look like a pretty good brand.

 

Yeah it's definitely got a "start up" feel to the company. However the good side of that is that they are constantly improving the camera through firmware updates. It's actually a better tool now than when I bought it.

 

[TomTheDP]

10 hours ago, kye said:

Z-Cam is interesting.  I've watched a number of reviews and sample footage from Sidney Baker Green on YT (https://www.youtube.com/user/sidneybakergreen) who has a Z-Cam and is a pretty good colourist.  His take on it was that the image is pretty good, but the product isn't that refined yet and has small foibles, and the user experience isn't that great with things like the manuals not being kept up-to-date and support really being via user groups.

I've really liked the images I've seen from them.  Assuming they continue and get more refined over time they look like a pretty good brand.

 

My biggest worry with Z-cam is if the company went under. Otherwise they are super responsive to problems and the Facebook group is very quick to respond. 

Compared to say blackmagic I feel like they are more on top of the wants of their customers. They already have an internal E-ND option out where as blackmagic still has yet to put anything like that out. Unlike other camera companies they are giving us the full capabilities of the Sony sensors everyone is using. Also the Z-cam doesn't take 23 seconds to boot like the komodo lol. 


But yeah I would say the C70 is easily more compact. You don't actually really need anything to shoot with it. On the other side if you are going to use an external monitor (maybe because you want to see something in bright sunlight), something like the Z-cam or Komodo makes more sense. 

btw I am an owner of the E2 S6 and original E2. 
 

[barefoot_dp]

5 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

 Also the Z-cam doesn't take 23 seconds to boot like the komodo lol. 
 

I think a lot of people are going to buy the Komodo, and a lot of people are going to regret it.

I'm sure the picture is fantastic, but - even compared to the very similar Z-Cams - it just doesn't seem to tick the boxes people actually want or need. It was designed as a B-Cam and all those people thinking they can use it as an A-Cam and that it offers a small convenient package similar to a mirrorless will quickly (within about 23 seconds 🤣) find out they are mistaken.

I think people are going to scramble for it just because of the Red name, without actually thinking it through or comparing it to other options, or asking themselves if it actually suits their needs.

[kye]

5 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

I think a lot of people are going to buy the Komodo, and a lot of people are going to regret it.

I think a lot of folks out there don't really mind if something is hybrid or MILC or even DSLR, they just want a small(ish) package that can be hand-held or put on a gimbal, and have 10K for a complete setup.

In this sense there's things like the Komodo, BGH1, C70, as well as the DSLR form factor with things like S1H, Canon 1DX line, etc.  Lots of options around to choose from.

[TomTheDP]

Yeah the Komodo is definitely for a specific crowd. I’d love to have global shutter. Hopefully GS comes to low end cameras, the motion is so beautiful. 

[zerocool22]

On 11/9/2020 at 10:00 PM, barefoot_dp said:

I think a lot of people are going to buy the Komodo, and a lot of people are going to regret it.

I'm sure the picture is fantastic, but - even compared to the very similar Z-Cams - it just doesn't seem to tick the boxes people actually want or need. It was designed as a B-Cam and all those people thinking they can use it as an A-Cam and that it offers a small convenient package similar to a mirrorless will quickly (within about 23 seconds 🤣) find out they are mistaken.

I think people are going to scramble for it just because of the Red name, without actually thinking it through or comparing it to other options, or asking themselves if it actually suits their needs.

Lets hope so, I want to get a good deal.