GH5 as a B Cam To My S1???

[Mark Romero 2]

Thinking of getting a (used) GH5 as a B cam to my Panasonic S1 for interview situations (or possibly using on a tripod for wedding speeches / events) and also as a somewhat smaller photo / video camera for my 14-year-old son to use for school projects and such.

Right now my sony a6500 is my B cam. The faults of the a6500 are well known, but I think the main concern is that it doesn't have unlimited recording and the LOG format is only 8-bit, and Sony colors...

I do have some pretty decent glass though for the a6500 (like Sony 10-18, the Sony 50mm f/1.8 OSS, which works great as a 70mm-equivalent with some cheapo Meike extension tubes). And since cost is kind of a concern, I'm a bit worried about replicating all that glass for a GH5. 

So I guess I am wondering how easy it will be to mach the V LOG L of the GH5 with the V LOG of the S1.  I know I will lose about two stops of dynamic range 😞

Is the Viltrox II EF to M43 speedbooster adapter viable if I don't really need AF-C? Since for the foreseeable future I will probably be buying EF mount lenses for my S1 and using them on the MC-21 adapter, I could also dual-purpose them (to an extent) to use on the GH5, I guess.

Or is the metabones speedbooster that much better???

And at that point, getting a second S1 used wouldn't be that much more expensive... just real big and heavy. 

Other options:

BMPCC4K:
Bulky, not really a photo camera, still have to use a speedbooster

Fuji X-T3:
Recording time limits. Probably using EF-mount lenses (with lens stabilization) on a Fringer adapter. No real "memory" settings (which i use a lot on my S1 and a6500 cameras).

Other options???

[TomTheDP]

The GH5 is your cheapest and best bet. Of course it can't keep up with the S1 beyond 3200 iso and the dynamic range is more limited. However dynamic range isn't as important for say a close up B cam shot and I am guessing you usually light your interviews. 

The Fuji is a great deal and the image is a step up from the GH5 but the record limits suck for interviews. 

If you can get a used GH5 for under 1k I think its a good option. The 25mm 1.7 might be a good option. The rokinon/samyang 12mm f2 is a good wide angle option if can deal with a manual lens.

The Viltrox is a fine option. Wide open the viltrox is soft that is the one downside. Lens Turbo speedboosters are the best in terms of low budget ones, but they are fully manual. 

Vlog L and Vlog do not match but its certainly closer than SLOG vs VLOG or Vlog vs FLOG or any other log. 

[IronFilm]

As much as I am a fan boy of MFT, I'd lean towards spending the extra for a Panasonic S5 (or a second secondhand S1) over a GH5. 

Because it is smart for all your cameras to share the same mount, and of course you'll get an even closer match in colors between your A and B cam. 
(bit different matter if you were asking about a G7 as your B Cam? As the cost savings there are so huuuuuge)

Also, stop buying EF mount glass. 

[kye]

I second everything that @IronFilm said.

Now is a good time to consolidate to one lens mount as you're selling lenses anyway.  This folds into a lens strategy where you should be able to use the same lenses across both cameras, but without having duplicates, which typically means having the same sensor size.

For example, if you want a variety of shots in your Multicam setup then you want a different FOV from the two cameras.  Typically that would mean having a mid-shot on the A-cam and either a wider shot on B-cam, or a tight shot on the B-cam, and is often done with a 24-70 / 16-35 or 24-70 / 70-200.

If your B-cam was an MFT then you'd either have to have a second 24-70 to get a tighter shot with the crop sensor, or you'd have to use a specialist MFT wide lens like a 7-14mm to get something that was actually wide, but then that's a lens you can't use on your A-camera. 

The other advantage of having cameras of the same sensor size and common lens mount is that everything is a backup for everything else.  If a body dies then you have a second body that can use any of your lenses.  If a lens dies then you have access to every other lens on that camera.

In the spirit of "two is one and one is none" you might consider buying a very cheap third body in case one body dies, which would leave you with a dual-camera setup in that case.  I don't know how you shoot and edit so you could always cut up the interview with B-roll if you only had one camera for the interview, but it's worth considering.  In terms of a third body, something with good 1080p would probably be the way to go, which typically means older and smaller sensor.  In that situation you'd want to get something that required as little extra peripherals as possible, for example, using compatible power solutions, lenses, etc.  That might be where a G7 or something comes into play, where you can use the 70-200 on your main camera and the 24-70 on the backup camera as a mid shot, perhaps positioned further away, or go to 70 and without a speed booster it would be a tight shot.

I'm employing this strategy in my work.  My main setup for travel film-making is a GH5 combined with a Sony X3000 action camera and next trip I will probably buy a GH3 as a second / backup body.  It will take the same lenses, can be used as a second angle if required (either for real-time or time lapses), and if my whole main setup of GH5 goes in the drink (for example) then I can easily replace it with the GH3 and the only overheads of the GH3 will be to carry an extra 3.5mm on-camera mic, USB battery charger and a couple of batteries, and a 14/2.5 lens as replacement to my 17.5/0.95 main lens.  If my X3000 dies then I can use my 7.5/2 lens on the GH5 or on the GH3 to replace the FOV.  I would lose the waterproof abilities of the X3000 but that's the price of a camera dying on a trip.

[IronFilm]

53 minutes ago, kye said:

In the spirit of "two is one and one is none" you might consider buying a very cheap third body in case one body dies, which would leave you with a dual-camera setup in that case.  

Especially as @Mark Romero 2 mentioned weddings, I'd strongly consider getting a third camera. (and with @kye's "two is one and one is none" principle, you ought to have four cameras!)

If you know your specific uses cases well, such as: "I'll only use my B Cam (& C Cam) for wiiide / mid wide shots on a tripod for planned out shots in at least moderately well lit conditions" (which is the case for all interviews, they'll be well lit, and I'd even say for weddings too. As no, wedding are not "extreme low light" scenarios. Not by 2020 standards. Sure weddings demanded "good low light cameras" back in the early 2000's when standards of what is "good at low light" was different. But this is 2020! You won't have troubles using MFT whatsoever for your multicamera setups for the ceremony and speeches. Sure, later in the evening when it gets dark and they're partying, good low light capabilities are beneficial. But by this point in time you're no longer rolling multicamera setups for hours at a time, you're getting B Roll with your A Cam instead for the edit)

Thus you could have your Panasonic S1 as your A Cam, and two secondhand Panasonic G7 for dirt cheap, one with the cheap SLR Magic 8mm and the other simply with the kit 14-42mm lens. (perhaps throw in the cheap Panasonic 25mm f1.7 lens, "just in case". Your total lens investment is still very very minimal, thus doesn't so matter much you're spreading yourself thin across two lens mounts of MFT & L Mount)

[Mark Romero 2]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Also, stop buying EF mount glass. 

Never!!!

In all seriousness, L Mount glass is really expensive. And the fact that EF glass can be used on everything from Sony to Fuji to Sigma to BMPCC4K / 6K 0makes it seem "safe" in case I end up switching bodies again. I know it's a compromise but since AF on the S1 is pretty bad anyways... 

[Mark Romero 2]

52 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Thus you could have your Panasonic S1 as your A Cam, and two secondhand Panasonic G7 for dirt cheap...

I like the whole "dirt cheap" part, but my concern is that it doesn't have unlimited record time and no 10-bit. Seems like the G85, while a step up, also suffers from a recording limit and is 8-bit only.

[IronFilm]

With a little tweak the G7 can have unlimited recording too, google it. 
As for 8bit, again remember the very specific use case we're discussing here: as B & C Cam for wedding ceremonies / speeches. 
This is low budget sh*t which you're going to be using SOOC or near to it. These cameras are just for bulking out the long form edits to give you coverage. 8bit is fine. 

[Mark Romero 2]

32 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

With a little tweak the G7 can have unlimited recording too, google it. 
As for 8bit, again remember the very specific use case we're discussing here: as B & C Cam for wedding ceremonies / speeches. 
This is low budget sh*t which you're going to be using SOOC or near to it. These cameras are just for bulking out the long form edits to give you coverage. 8bit is fine. 

OK, but just to clear up, mostly going to use the cameras for corporate / small business commercials, and just fill in to weddings on the odd job basis.

I guess I just want to make sure I will be able to match the footage with the S1.

I will look in to the unlimited recording trick. Thanks for the heads up.

[Mark Romero 2]

3 hours ago, kye said:

The other advantage of having cameras of the same sensor size and common lens mount is that everything is a backup for everything else.  If a body dies then you have a second body that can use any of your lenses.  If a lens dies then you have access to every other lens on that camera.

Yeah, that is kind of the issue I face right now. Running two parallel systems doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me... unless it will somehow be cost effective to do it.

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

OK, but just to clear up, mostly going to use the cameras for corporate / small business commercials, and just fill in to weddings on the odd job basis.

Again, think carefully about how are you going to be using these B / C Cams on small corporate content shoots?

I've done sound on lots of these types of shoots, and they're almost always single camera shoots. Is it out of lack of confidence you'll not get the coverage from just one camera, or you fear you might miss out on a vital moment in the IV while you're switching up shot sizes on your main cam? Consider how much you might be harming the quality of your work by spreading yourself thin across three cameras vs just having one, and the compromises you're making to ensure the 2nd/3rd angles look good too. 

[kye]

In terms of 8-bit, concentrate on getting it as right in-camera as you can.  All the 10-bit vs 8-bit tests that identified differences (many didn't) only had issues when the image was pushed by a decent amount, so the better you get it in-camera the less you have to push it around and the better the image will be.

Matching colour is a matter of:

• choosing the same colour profiles on all cameras
• setting the WB and exposures properly
• using a colour checker once per setup

You can do your homework and record a colour checker on all cameras in controlled conditions, then make an adjustment to match the lesser cameras to the better one, and make it a preset so you can quickly apply it.  Then when you're working on actual projects all you have to do is tweak slightly, if anything at all.

Yes, I realise that this means you will be shooting a rec709 type profile on your best camera, but this is intentional to match colour profiles, and also it will help you get a good quality image in post.  I use the GH5 as my A-cam and shoot the 1080p All-I 10-bit 422 modes, and just recently I swapped from shooting HLG to shooting in Cine-D.  Extrapolating from the principle of "the less you mess with it the further you are away from the image breaking" I no longer take my 10-bit image and radically push/pull the bits around in the HLG->rec709 conversion, so now when I get my 10-bit Cine-D images out of camera the bits are nice and thick and almost exactly where I'll end up putting them in the final grade.

@Ironfilm makes a good point about using the kit lens on a second / third angle, as the kit lenses are nice and sharp when stopped down a bit, and can also be pretty good when at their longest focal length and wide open, especially if it's an angle you're not going to go to for long or many times in the edit.

[Mark Romero 2]

OK, well taking account in to what @kye and what @IronFilm have brought up...

Maybe a G85 would be good??? half the price of a GH5, no recording limit in 4K, and IBIS

I could pick one up and the kit lens for around $500 or so.

Surprisingly, people are getting between $600 and $700 on ebay for the a6500

So in short it would be swapping better AF and better low light for no recording limit (a6500 has 30-minute limit) and better chance of matching colors with the S1.

[kye]

Swapping AF and low light for unlimited recording and colour matching seems like a good trade-off if you're doing interviews and weddings, especially for a B-camera.

Also WRT low light, the MFT cameras can get very passable low-light performance if paired with a fast lens.  I have above average night vision (I can easily go off-road mountain bike riding with no lights if there's a full moon) but the GH5 and f0.95 lens combo can see in the dark better than I can.
The other low-light advantage of MFT is that on an f0.95 lens it gets the exposure value of T0.95 but a DoF equivalent to a FF at F1.9, so better exposure without the razor-thin DoF.

I'd suggest having a think about the various interview configurations that you might use and then working out what the minimum requirements would be for those setups, in order to avoid buying gear you don't end up using.

[Mark Romero 2]

3 minutes ago, kye said:

I'd suggest having a think about the various interview configurations that you might use and then working out what the minimum requirements would be for those setups, in order to avoid buying gear you don't end up using.

Sound advice.

[TomTheDP]

If shooting in Vlog on the S1, the colors on the G85 aren't really going to be doing you any favor in terms of matching. Of course you could shoot both in CineD. Fast lenses are a good option to workout low light limits on M43 but good fast glass is expensive. Cheaper lenses that are super fast are generally not the most usable wide open. But I guess again the question is do you actually need low light performance for interviews? 

 

[Mark Romero 2]

5 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

If shooting in Vlog on the S1, the colors on the G85 aren't really going to be doing you any favor in terms of matching. Of course you could shoot both in CineD. Fast lenses are a good option to workout low light limits on M43 but good fast glass is expensive. Cheaper lenses that are super fast are generally not the most usable wide open. But I guess again the question is do you actually need low light performance for interviews? 

 

That's a good question.

My thought is the better the low light performance, the less number of lights and light stands I am going to have to schlep along.

And yeah, it seems like I would have to shoot in Cine D to try and get the best match in color.

[Parker]

I have been using an S1/GH5 combo for probably close to two years now, it's a very winning combo, primarily for your same use case, mostly talking head/interviews and corporate work. No need to over think it, I shoot both in V-Log pretty much all the time and they are quite easy to match, typically I use the GHAlex LUT and it looks awesome. 

[Mark Romero 2]

Thanks for the input!!!

If you have any work posted online, would love to see it.

[Parker]

5 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the input!!!

If you have any work posted online, would love to see it.

Sure thing, tons of examples on my vimeo, https://vimeo.com/user16941419/videos 

Pretty much anything two-camera is S1 A-cam and wide, GH5 b-cam, close-up angles. 


But here are a couple random ones if you don't feel like digging. I'm not a pro colorist by any means, most of my projects have very fast turn around so I get them "good enough" and don't always go for a 100% perfect match between cameras, but I don't they look glaringly different or anything, even in higher DR-situations.