Administrators Andrew Reid Posted February 11, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 11, 2014 The media presentation for the GH4 by Panasonic mentions a "Canon 7D successor" along with detailed specs.20MP sensorISO 100-12,800 (25600 extended)1/8000 shutterQuiet shutter modePhase detect AF, 19 area8fps continuous shootingBuffer size - 15 raw, 126 JPEG3.0" 1040k dot LCD (touch screen) - not articulatedWeather sealed (as original 7D)910g weight Oddly the camera is mentioned as needing an optional transmitter for WiFi. That's something I'm expecting Canon to build into the 7D Mark II itself like on the 6D. To have the document mention specifics like weight and dimensions is quite interesting. Where did they get the info from?Read the full article here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Long ago we heard something about a RAW video burst mode, or some other innovative video feature. If they put 4GB of ram on it, they could give it 8 seconds of rull res burst, that would be sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHines Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 "Since then Canon have moved video pros onto their own dedicated line (Cinema EOS) and left advanced amateurs to a sea of crocodiles." Bahahaha! So true. The 5D3 raw video image quality with Magic Lantern will not be bested by Canon for another 2-3 years, count on this. Hopefully their Cinema line goes out of business so they can actually provide value to normal people that don't spend 16 grand on a 1080p 8-bit shooting camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted February 11, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted February 11, 2014 Can't see a Canon sensor doing 24fps+ bursts at full res, can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Interesting. Panasonic didn't show this to me in their very detailed media presentation. I have never seen any camera company mention an unannounced camera in a media presentation and I have seen many over the past 6 years. I think this is pure speculation from Panasonic. I'd be pretty conservative if I had to guess what the 7D II would bring, but I'd at least expect a step up in AF and buffer size. This is 70D territory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-robert Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Canon could do almost anything possible, if they wanted. They just don't care enough for this segment. john_d 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mend Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Since I wasn't there to hear the context in which Panasonic presented this chart, I can only speculate. But as a visual aid, the chart seems intended to make the GH4 look competitive relative to semi-pro APS-C cameras. If this was indeed the intention, then it behooves Panasonic to lowball the 7D Mk II's specs, as doing so emphasizes the "superiority" of their product. In a sense, I agree with Andrew; a small part of me hopes Canon will surprise me, but my larger, rational part knows that the 7D Mark II is destined to underwhelm. Perhaps they'll throw in 60p or something, but Canon clearly wants to leverage those of us with lens investments to move up to the C series. Why would they give me the 10:2:2 codec and high frame rates I want when they have more expensive gear to sell? For DSLR filmmakers, I think the GH4 could actually be a turning point. It's an impressive package, and it might be enough to pull some people from Canon, but I'll reconsider the issue after NAB. Anyway, I think these specs are pure speculation, as I alluded above. Perhaps Panasonic has inside information, but Canon runs its own factories, so the normal supply chain chatter might not apply. But that point aside, I just can't see why Canon would make the 7D Mark II described in these specs. It would be 99% the same camera as the 70D. I mean, perhaps Andrew's right, and they'll basically release a 70D with better build, a bigger buffer, a CF slot, some other bells and whistles, and "7D Mk II" slapped on the front. That could push people toward FF bodies. But man, it's just asking for a PR beating. For every customer they convert to a 6D or 5D Mark III, there will be four or five articles that puzzle over Canon's uninspired and overdue follow-up. I'd be truly surprised if Canon didn't at least put in a new autofocus system, or increase the frame rate to 10. Matching these specs would be too little after too long a wait, from both a stills and video perspective. It's like Microsoft removing the Start menu and Start button in Windows 8. If you're too transparent about trying to herd your customers, sometimes there's a fallout-- like the fact that almost-dead Windows XP somehow gained more market share in January than Windows 8/8.1 did. Canon is a pretty diverse company, and it can afford to piss off certain customer segments. But a 7D II that matches these lowly steps would be too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mend Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Interesting. Panasonic didn't show this to me in their very detailed media presentation. I have never seen any camera company mention an unannounced camera in a media presentation and I have seen many over the past 6 years. I think this is pure speculation from Panasonic. I'd be pretty conservative if I had to guess what the 7D II would bring, but I'd at least expect a step up in AF and buffer size. This is 70D territory... Yes, I got long-winded, but you cut right to the reason I think these specs are BS: "This is 70D territory." A 7D Mark II with these specs has literally no reason to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Btw, this looks like a slide where they compare the photographic capabilities (shutter life). I saw a slide of that too (excluding the 7D successor). Keep in mind that most media are focusing on the photographer. Most photography websites/magazines know sh*t about video. Even the technical product manager from Panasonic Europe admitted to having to do a crash course video specs to do the presentation. Video is never a big point in presentations of new dslrs / compact system camera's. Mostly just a mention of 'it does 1080p at XX fps'. Of course Panasonic GH is an exception since it's the most 'hybrid' of all camera's, and the GH4 presentation was pretty detailed (and the one in Japan probably more than the European one) but still... I'm pretty sure the 7D II will be very photography orientated. Canon can't even make a killer video dslr, just a few improvements and they cannibalize their own Cinema EOS system... Sure it the 7D II will be better than the first. Maybe it'll have 60 fps, maybe they'll finally get rid of the moire. Probably some fancy AF like the 70D. But raw or 4:2:2? How can they with camera's like the C100 and C300 costing that much. It's a dead end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damphousse Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Btw, this looks like a slide where they compare the photographic capabilities (shutter life). I saw a slide of that too (excluding the 7D successor). Keep in mind that most media are focusing on the photographer. Most photography websites/magazines know sh*t about video. Even the technical product manager from Panasonic Europe admitted to having to do a crash course video specs to do the presentation. Video is never a big point in presentations of new dslrs / compact system camera's. Mostly just a mention of 'it does 1080p at XX fps'. Of course Panasonic GH is an exception since it's the most 'hybrid' of all camera's, and the GH4 presentation was pretty detailed (and the one in Japan probably more than the European one) but still... The video market is tiny compared to the DSLR market. And I'm sure most of the cameras Canon sells cost less than $1,000. Also I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe a $1499-$1999 GH4 has anything more photographically than my $300 refurbished T3i. The average consumer simply does not drop $1499-$1999 on just a camera body. 4K video is nice and all but my girlfriend has a T3i and she NEVER uses it to shoot movies. She shoots movies with her iphone. And even then she doesn't do that that often. What the average consumer is going to see when they look at this camera is a very expensive camera that has a smaller sensor and fewer megapixels than the $300-$400 camera they have in their hands right now... That makes nice movies. This is not going to be a mass market item. I love the camera. I'm on pins and needles waiting to see what price point it comes in at. But I don't think this is going to save Panasonics photography business. They are not going to move units like Canon and Nikon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_d Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Canon could do almost anything possible, if they wanted. They just don't care enough for this segment. This is so true. Canon is letting Sony catch up and beat them. Canon doesnt care for this segment and this mk2 isnt a necessary upgrade. When 4K becomes the rage (seeing as the Samsung Note 3 can shoot 4K), Canon needs a 4K camera in the 3K pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticPictures Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Great, a weather-sealed 70D. Where's the closest ATM machine? No doubt, Canon is neglecting video and have been for a while. It's much more cost effective for them to rely on Magic Lantern to make their devices sexy. What they don't realize though is that if they keep shunning videographers with their more affordable offerings, Magic Lantern will move on to greener pastures. The only way this camera will get my attention is if they improve the codec. Give us ProRes or perhaps even H265. Now that would be a splash. Not possible though, methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I don't really think Canon has to be very disruptive or give us 4K for the 7D mk II to be a good camera. Just few minor improvements and it will be. -eliminating aliasing & moire -the all-I 90mbps code -1080p 60p -a headphone output -the perfectly usable dual-pixel technology -Canon's always-impressive low-light abilities -maybe a crop-mode/ peaking... I believe these specs are all very reasonable and expected (except peaking maybe) And if so, it will be a camera capable of professional-level sports photography and professional-level videography under 2k USD. Couple that with the usual expansion of the the buffer and memory slot speed, you will also be able to record 14bit 444 raw when you need it to. Pretty good value/investment for idie filmmakers I believe. This is all speculation though and maybe they'll do something stupid like line-skipping or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 And these are not the 7D mk II specifications I believe. Since they are exactly the original 7D specs except for the 2 more megapixels & the touchscreen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticPictures Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I don't really think Canon has to be very disruptive or give us 4K for the 7D mk II to be a good camera. Just few minor improvements and it will be. -eliminating aliasing & moire -the all-I 90mbps code -1080p 60p -a headphone output -the perfectly usable dual-pixel technology -Canon's always-impressive low-light abilities -maybe a crop-mode/ peaking... I believe these specs are all very reasonable and expected (except peaking maybe) And if so, it will be a camera capable of professional-level sports photography and professional-level videography under 2k USD. Couple that with the usual expansion of the the buffer and memory slot speed, you will also be able to record 14bit 444 raw when you need it to. Pretty good value/investment for idie filmmakers I believe. This is all speculation though and maybe they'll do something stupid like line-skipping or so. 1080 60p, headphone jack, and focus-peaking are deal-breakers, in my opinion. They simply must be there. From there we can talk about the codec. If they don't want to go 4K so as not to cannibalize the cinema line, they have to give us at least 100mb/s. That's still only half of what the GH4 will be providing. As for low-light and moire/aliasing - 7D mark II will need to best the GH4. I'm comparing to the GH4 because from all indications, the two cameras will be in the same class and price point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted February 11, 2014 Author Administrators Share Posted February 11, 2014 4K is very disruptive. How many of you are still shooting in 720x480? 1080p is yesterday's news I'm afraid, at least as far as the market is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 4K is very disruptive. How many of you are still shooting in 720x480? 1080p is yesterday's news I'm afraid, at least as far as the market is concerned. It is very disruptive, but what I am saying is that Canon does not have to be very distuptive to make a good camera. I believe the 7D successor can be a very good camera if they improved the 1080p quality with the few specs I mentioned earlier. Certainly not all of us want or need 4K and 1080p it's not yesterday's news. It's a cliche statement but lets remember Arri's Amira & Alexa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticPictures Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 4K is very disruptive. How many of you are still shooting in 720x480? 1080p is yesterday's news I'm afraid, at least as far as the market is concerned. It's sad to think that we've moved on to 4K without making an earnest effort in optimizing the image of 1080p - a standard so many have told their stories in - especially since it's technically possible to do so. Canon has no excuses. Germy1979 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius22 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The auto focus looks great, even if the video sucks. At the end of day, people are going to buy it because it's a Canon. Moreover, photography people could care less about video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 At the end of day, people are going to buy it because it's a Canon. . True. And that doesn't have mean a bad thing. I would buy a Canon camera over a Blackmagic/panasonic one even if they're better- if the difference is not big enough. It's mainly because I live in Egypt, and as Canon is a huge company they are extremely existent in the market here, I can find service, advice, repair, a huge amount of accessories and a great sale and re-sale value. That applies to nearly all countries outside the UK, US, etc. It may not be as important for you guys in the UK and US and I imagine if I lived there I would use BM/Panasonic/Sony instead of Canons, but I unfortunately don't. When a C300 failed on me a couple of months back (it was weirdly working but wouldn't respond any record button) I immediately made a phone call and found professionals answering me politely. a day after they picked the camera up from my house, a day after they dropped it off, perfectly working. Truly remarkable really given where I am. I can't imagine having a blackmagic fail on me here, Oh God! :D I just can rely on Canon. Disappointed by their marketing-model and line-up but, I can trust them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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