Nikon could leave camera market

[Andrew Reid]

 

Our buddy is on the money again

I think they are doomed!

And not just in the camera business

https://www.eoshd.com/news/nikon-facing-serious-crisis-in-chipmaking-as-well-as-camera-business/

But in the key lithography business, they are about to lose Intel who account for up to 90% of sales.

Nikon lost half a billion USD so far this year, which is absolutely massive.

Just at a time they need to invest big to save the lithography and camera business, update their tech, etc.

NOT GOOD!!

[MrSMW]

I don’t wish to see them go.

Quite the opposite as I started my career with Nikon and after a gap of nearly 10 years, would have gone back to them.

But others meet my needs better than they do so whilst I may be only one single nail, all the individual nails add up...

Speaking from a camera perspective which is my only interest in the Nikon company.

[Dustin]

Wow Andrew this is incredibly sad! While 2020 has no doubt, been hard on all industries, it would be an absolute shame to see beloved camera companies gone with the blink of an eye. The Kodak reference is spot on, as a 35mm film enthusiast, it’s quite stunning how complacent these huge corporations can become. While the video market may see Nikon’s offerings as out of touch and rightfully so, it would be a shame to see such a historic company become just a relic.

Side note- hope everyone on this forum is surviving well during this pandemic! I purchased an XT3 in August but to be honest, haven’t felt motivated to even shoot occasional clips due to life. 

[RogerRabbit]

It's a shame because their SOOC image for both stills and video is stellar. They just never came up with features that appealed particularly to people, and then they kept diluting their portfolio with odd products that further split their R&D capacity (the Z50?). They spent years releasing crop sensor cameras but only unexciting zooms for them. The Z cameras are great (from what I hear) but their strategy of releasing relatively large and expensive primes killed it. They had an opportunity to take on Fuji and Sony but flunked it and then flunked it again by releasing version II's with incremental improvements.  They occasionally showed inspiration with the J1 series and the DF but they too were eventually failures. 

[mkabi]

I'm sure a lot of us feel the same.

Nikon name is legendary, just as legendary as Canon.

I like the design and look of the Z cams - just the inside don't match the outside. Z6 II & Z7 II should have had more than what they offered - they should've aimed for what the R5 was offering, instead they were offering less than what the S5 was offering.

[independent]

Apple should buy Nikon and bring all their innovative technologies to professional cameras. 

[zerocool22]

Well they had a lot of oppurtunities to destroy canon, sony and panasonic but for some reason they did not bother with decent video specs. So they kinda had it coming.

[Video Hummus]

26 minutes ago, independent said:

Apple should buy Nikon and bring all their innovative technologies to professional cameras. 

This would be an act of business mercy by Apple which is known to be a more ruthless company.

If Nikon exits camera business it will be a clear signal, more than Olypuses departure, that the camera industry is in serious flux. 

[scotchtape]

Whoever was in charge of their video strategy failed miserably. Despite the protestations of a few Nikon fanbois, their video on the Z series just wasn't that good, not to mention the AF at the start.

They had no reason not to release a Nikon A7SIII, unless it's because of some Japanese cultural business agreement.

I was a prime candidate to go with the Z series, I switched to Nikon from Canon for photos and video on the D750 so I had a lot of Nikon gear.

Eventually I used GH5 and A7III for video, and the Z series just never offered anything to compete (for me). AF wasn't great, initial footage all looked over sharpened, external recording is a bit niche in terms of the number of people who aren't interested in that. Why didn't they offer better codecs, better quality IQ, better AF? Why didn't they work on the AF-C for legacy lenses, they're the "first party" makers, they could have killed it for adapting old lenses, imagine vintage Nikon glass with full AF-C...

Not to mention their camera service sucked. After I got the shutter recall done on my D750s, a year or two later it started acting up.  Of course by then they had centralized their services in one city (not mine) and also refused to fix the shutter despite me hardly ever using that particular camera, so basically, their recall borked my shutter, and then they refused to do anything about it. Also loved the camera tech ranting about using a 3rd party battery telling me it was going to destroy my camera.

They tried to cut costs and ended up making one bad decision after another, and they refused to change course. No surprise what's coming next for them... I loved the D750 at the time but I'm not really sad to them punished for their arrogance.

[zerocool22]

20 minutes ago, scotchtape said:

 

They had no reason not to release a Nikon A7SIII, unless it's because of some Japanese cultural business agreement.

 

They could have gone way beyond a7s iii specs. Pro codecs(prores,...) + even some sort of internal raw + Anamorphic mode.

[EduPortas]

Nikon is not a video company. Their forte is and will always be photo gear.

They make very good products in that respect.  A bit more expensive than the usual players, no doubt. But the quality is there.

Let's be honest here guys: Nikon = Japanese ethos. Failing for them means being bought by another Japanese company.

Since they are a part of the umbrella of the massive Mitsubishi group, I HIGHLY doubt we'll ever see a dramatic shift.

At least not as dramatic as Pentax, which by the way still make a very good photo cameras.

[elgabogomez]

Their mirrorless cameras are called Z but lack refinement and exciting new features, there are cinema cameras named “Z” that lack name recognition and service centers around the globe... Maybe a partnership for a Nikon Z cam FM cine ultimate camera!

[aaa123jc]

It's sad to see Nikon is in this current situation. I always love Nikon cameras for stills. 

But I'm afraid it was already too late for Nikon to drastically change its business strategy. Nikon has largely ignored the mirrorless market and sectors for video shooters or hybrid shooters for maybe a bit too long. The z-mount looks promising, but the lens options is far behind Sony. As for features, they are also behind Panasonic, and now Canon and Sony as well.  

[independent]

3 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

This would be an act of business mercy by Apple which is known to be a more ruthless company.

If Nikon exits camera business it will be a clear signal, more than Olypuses departure, that the camera industry is in serious flux. 

Business mercy? It’s Apple’s modus operandus to generate growth by penetrating other markets with disruptive technologies - the way they did with watches, headphones, phones, mp3 players, etc.

In fact, Apple’s growth has come from wearables and services; their phone, computer, and tablet sales have been stagnant.

However, if Apple put their Ax or Mx ARM chips in a full sensor camera, with neural processing, software integration with Prores Raw, lidar-boosted autofocus, etc., they would likely crush the pro photo/video market.

It’s almost a logical move. Apple has already a complete ecosystem for pro photo/video, hardware and software. They’ve had relationships with R3d and Blackmagic, but neither can keep up. 

Let’s put it this way; Apple made $10,000 computers to accommodate professionals. Then they showed how by controlling a codec, an $800 iPad could edit 8k. They put internal 4K 10-bit in an iphone, while that feat had eluded the major camera manufacturers until this year. 

Anyways, Nikon has the infrastructure for rapid integration of Apple’s technologies. If Apple developed a full frame camera with all the technologies and features in the iphone, I’d buy it. 

 

 

[Nerv]

it's too bad, i have a Nikon D3S, D4 and D4S and they are stellar for photography!  I do like the idea of Apple buying them to get into the Pro camera business...but will never happen 😞

 

[barefoot_dp]

3 hours ago, independent said:

It’s almost a logical move. Apple has already a complete ecosystem for pro photo/video, hardware and software. They’ve had relationships with R3d and Blackmagic, but neither can keep up. 

Let’s put it this way; Apple made $10,000 computers to accommodate professionals. Then they showed how by controlling a codec, an $800 iPad could edit 8k. They put internal 4K 10-bit in an iphone, while that feat had eluded the major camera manufacturers until this year. 

Anyways, Nikon has the infrastructure for rapid integration of Apple’s technologies. If Apple developed a full frame camera with all the technologies and features in the iphone, I’d buy it. 

 

 

You're far less cynical about Apple than I am. They won't make/sell anything unless (a) there is mass consumer appeal, and (b) everything about it requires compulsory proprietary integration for both hardware and software. Both of these things are inherently at odds with the professional photo/video production industry.

I know plenty of stills photographers who would be devastated if Nikon went under, but not a single videographer.

 

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, mkabi said:

Nikon name is legendary, just as legendary as Canon.

Yup, and Nikon still has one half of the Camera Duopoly (soon/already a Tripoly? But for now, Nikon sells more ILC than Sony), and Nikon still has the biggest back catalogue of lenses. (and I think if you ignore kit lenses, has sold more F Mount lenses than EF Mount lenses? And has more specific lens models I think than Canon)

I wouldn't rush to hastily write off Nikon, I'm not going to bet on Nikon to be the next company to exit the industry.

One possible gold mine that might turn around Nikons fortunates quickly is the current China vs USA trade war. Because the bans on exports for American companies is leading to Chinese trying to do more in making semi conductors themselves, and Nikon is positioned well to sell equipment & services to those new Chinese factories. 

  

8 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Well they had a lot of oppurtunities to destroy canon, sony and panasonic but for some reason they did not bother with decent video specs. So they kinda had it coming.

So much opportunity squandered, as after all it was Nikon which put HD video first into an ILC!

[Video Hummus]

4 hours ago, independent said:

Business mercy? It’s Apple’s modus operandus to generate growth by penetrating other markets with disruptive technologies - the way they did with watches, headphones, phones, mp3 players, etc.

They already penetrated the camera market with disruptive technology.

4 hours ago, independent said:

they would likely crush the pro photo/video market.

That has tiny potential profits compared to what they have with iPhone and Mac.

If anything they would want to take on ARRI and capture the super high-end where all the money is and they don’t need to acquire Nikon to do that.

18 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

wouldn't rush to hastily write off Nikon, I'm not going to bet on Nikon to be the next company to exit the industry.

I would give that to Panasonic based on the broader company and how they are structuring themselves. Hell, they’ve pretty much said as much “looking for partners” is basically a signal to sell. Nikon could use Panasonic’s Video know-how and chops. Too bad they don’t have any money. 

[Robert Collins]

Part of the problem here is that we are sort of discussing a 'fight over control of deckchairs on the Titanic'. Realistically the ship has been going down for sometime and when a GFX100 medium format camera is being match by a Huawei P40 it apparently sank a while ago...

I remember all the talk about Samsung... bet they are pleased to be out of this market.

Look at how Sony has invested so heavily in this market but it is not as though they are making money (or much in the way of sales.)

[independent]

Incorrect. The market that is “shrinking” is the smartphone market. Everybody already has one, and apple has marginal advantages over the competition. Again, apple hasn’t seen growth here, which is why it’s pivoting in other industries - and succeeding.

The iPhone wasn’t the first smart phone, nor was the iPod the first MP3 player, nor was AirPods the first Bluetooth headphones, nor the Apple Watch the first smart watch, and so on. But they were the most successful because they reimagined existing products. 

The pro camera market has been shrinking not only because so much money/innovation has been put into the smartphone race, but also because of the lack of innovation by Sony, canon, Nikon, etc. 

That’s exactly the kind of good opportunity for Apple. They don’t invent products, they reinvent them.

The key issue is you’re stuck in that same mindset...pro cameras haven’t peaked, the existing companies have peaked.

See also Tesla and the automobile industry.