R5 freezing during recording with Atomos Ninja V *MAJOR PROBLEM*

[npc1386]

Hello all, I posted this on Reddit but figured I'd give it a shot here too to see if anyone else is experiencing similar problems.

My Gear for these tests: 

• Canon R5
• Canon EF-RF filter adapter
• Atomos Ninja V with AtomX 1tb SSD and Zlir 4k60p HDMI cable
• Sigma EF 24-70mm 2.8
• Sigma 35mm 1.4
• Canon EF 85mm 1.8

VIDEO SHOWING PROBLEMS DURING RECORDING TO NINJA V

VIDEO SHOWING PROBLEM WHEN USING COMPUTER SCREEN AS MONITOR (NOT RECORDING)

I'm pretty much at the end of my rope and ready to return my R5. One of the main reasons I preordered this camera was for the incredible AF technology (both for video and stills) as well as my investment in EF glass. The overheating issues basically force me to record to a Ninja V for anything longer than 15-20 min, so needless to say it's disappointing to see Canon employ a fragile micro HDMI 2.0 connection rather than mini or full size HDMI 2.1 (helping future-proof and allow more external recording options). It's clear they didn't want to mess with sales of their higher end cine line. I can deal with using an HDMI lock to prevent damage to the camera, but that connection needs to be rock solid and reliable delivering data to the external recorder.

THIS FREEZING / DROPPING AUDIO DOES NOT HAPPEN DURING INTERNAL RECORDING. You're probably safe if you plan to primarily shoot stills with this cam and shoot some light video internally. I'd say I'm 80/20 video/stills, so this camera was meant to replace my Panasonic GH5, which has been 100% reliable since day 1.

I use an AtomX 1tb SSD that I format in the Ninja V before each shoot. I have tried MANY different settings, multiple HDMI 2.0 cables, recording to the Ninja with card in and card out of the R5, Sigma EF and Canon EF lenses, OS / IS on and off, etc. The problem persists. After waiting months for my R5 to arrive, what I'm left with is a $5000+ camera system that cannot be relied on for any professional work.

My plan is to contact Canon and direct them to this thread, and if no solutions can be offered I'll be returning my camera. If this is happening to anyone else, please let me know! And for anyone planning to use a Ninja V with Servo AF & EF glass, consider this a warning!

Canon has not yet answered me, thinking I'll try calling this week. 

[herein2020]

12 hours ago, npc1386 said:

Hello all, I posted this on Reddit but figured I'd give it a shot here too to see if anyone else is experiencing similar problems.

My Gear for these tests: 

• Canon R5
• Canon EF-RF filter adapter
• Atomos Ninja V with AtomX 1tb SSD and Zlir 4k60p HDMI cable
• Sigma EF 24-70mm 2.8
• Sigma 35mm 1.4
• Canon EF 85mm 1.8

VIDEO SHOWING PROBLEMS DURING RECORDING TO NINJA V

VIDEO SHOWING PROBLEM WHEN USING COMPUTER SCREEN AS MONITOR (NOT RECORDING)

I'm pretty much at the end of my rope and ready to return my R5. One of the main reasons I preordered this camera was for the incredible AF technology (both for video and stills) as well as my investment in EF glass. The overheating issues basically force me to record to a Ninja V for anything longer than 15-20 min, so needless to say it's disappointing to see Canon employ a fragile micro HDMI 2.0 connection rather than mini or full size HDMI 2.1 (helping future-proof and allow more external recording options). It's clear they didn't want to mess with sales of their higher end cine line. I can deal with using an HDMI lock to prevent damage to the camera, but that connection needs to be rock solid and reliable delivering data to the external recorder.

THIS FREEZING / DROPPING AUDIO DOES NOT HAPPEN DURING INTERNAL RECORDING. You're probably safe if you plan to primarily shoot stills with this cam and shoot some light video internally. I'd say I'm 80/20 video/stills, so this camera was meant to replace my Panasonic GH5, which has been 100% reliable since day 1.

I use an AtomX 1tb SSD that I format in the Ninja V before each shoot. I have tried MANY different settings, multiple HDMI 2.0 cables, recording to the Ninja with card in and card out of the R5, Sigma EF and Canon EF lenses, OS / IS on and off, etc. The problem persists. After waiting months for my R5 to arrive, what I'm left with is a $5000+ camera system that cannot be relied on for any professional work.

My plan is to contact Canon and direct them to this thread, and if no solutions can be offered I'll be returning my camera. If this is happening to anyone else, please let me know! And for anyone planning to use a Ninja V with Servo AF & EF glass, consider this a warning!

Canon has not yet answered me, thinking I'll try calling this week. 

Get an S5...problem solved (except no AF and no 4K120FPS).  My Canon R6 experience was equally bad: 

 

Compared to my Panasonic S5 experience:

 

But I do think you got a bad R5, probably something wrong with the HDMI port.  I do think if your mixture is 80% video 20% photography the R5 is not the best option but that's just my opinion. In Canon's world they would want you to buy the R6 and the C70 for that mixture.

[npc1386]

Hi! Thank you for the reply. I'm so frustrated with this mess after spending so much $$ (over 5k), that the s5 is exactly what I'm thinking. 

Off topic I know, but do you have any experience adapting EF lenses to the S5? The one major thing holding be back is my huge investment in EF glass and Canon's amazing autofocus on the R5/R6. 

I know I won't get the same continuous autofocus in video (and L mount lenses are out of the question). I'm curious how fast / accurate adapted lenses would be for stills.  

 

*edit* Just popped into your S5 thread and I see that you are adapting EF glass. How accurate can I expect the autofocus to be with stills? How's the EVF compared to the R6?

[herein2020]

9 minutes ago, npc1386 said:

Hi! Thank you for the reply. I'm so frustrated with this mess after spending so much $$ (over 5k), that the s5 is exactly what I'm thinking. 

Off topic I know, but do you have any experience adapting EF lenses to the S5? The one major thing holding be back is my huge investment in EF glass and Canon's amazing autofocus on the R5/R6. 

I know I won't get the same continuous autofocus in video (and L mount lenses are out of the question). I'm curious how fast / accurate adapted lenses would be for stills.  

 

*edit* Just popped into your S5 thread and I see that you are adapting EF glass. How accurate can I expect the autofocus to be with stills? How's the EVF compared to the R6?

The spot AF is great with the adapter, so it is fine for stills as long as the subject is not moving. You will lose continuous AF with the adapter even for stills so that's something to keep in mind.  I know everyone slammed the EVF on the S5 but it seems fine to me. I picked up the EOS R in the store a few times and looked through the EVF and the lag was horrible. I'd rather no lag than a higher resolution EVF and I don't really see a lag in the S5 EVF. 

I'm still using my 5DIV for photography so I don't really use the EVF on the S5 since I only use it for video.  If I were to use the S5 for photography I'd get a second one with no cage and a battery grip because the grip to me is not as comfortable as my 5DIV. The one thing I will say about the R6 is it felt awesome to hold, the S5 actually feels better to hold with the cage than without because it adds size to it.

 

 

[herein2020]

21 minutes ago, npc1386 said:

Off topic I know, but do you have any experience adapting EF lenses to the S5? The one major thing holding be back is my huge investment in EF glass and Canon's amazing autofocus on the R5/R6. 

I will admit as much as I'm used to the lack of AF (after using a GH5 for years), it still bugs me a bit with the S5.  I know native lenses would solve that, but I'm like you, I have a large investment in EF glass and its really nice to be able to swap lenses between my C200, 5DIV and S5. 

So even though continuous AF is non existent, no overheat timer, dual card video recording, VLOG, etc. etc. far outweighs the R5's superior AF for me. Funny thing is, everyone raves about Canon's AF yet when I tried using the R6 to film a dance group the AF was terrible, I had to switch back to MF because it kept jumping to audience members in the background.

[npc1386]

Thanks again for the advice! For photography, I agree that the AF jumps around a lot on the R5 and wasn't very good at "predicting" what subject I wanted to focus on. Maybe it's because I'm so used to center point spot AF on my 5d mk ii. With the 5d I'd just lock on at the center point with a half press and then reframe if needed. 

I use EF glass on my GH5 via Metabones adapter (mostly use MF for video work), but I've tried AF for stills and it's not great. The camera seems to do a lot of hunting back and forth before it locks on, and even when it locks on it was always a little bit off. I could get better stills using MF. but it's obviously not convenient for anything moving around fast. 

What REALLY impresses me with the R5 is the continuous AF for video. It's amazing to lock on to a subject with a super shallow DOF (say 50mm 1.4) and watch it stay dead on when pushing forward / pulling back. The eye AF is equally impressive for portrait stills and for video. I didn't have much luck with animal eye AF in my limited testing. For example, the R5 could not find a bird @200mm.

I'm thinking that the S5 is nearly half the price of the R5, and I already have the Ninja V (hello 5.9k ProRes raw!). In addition to that, as much as I love the AF on the R5, I need something I can rely on for professional video. 

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, npc1386 said:

Thanks again for the advice! For photography, I agree that the AF jumps around a lot on the R5 and wasn't very good at "predicting" what subject I wanted to focus on. Maybe it's because I'm so used to center point spot AF on my 5d mk ii. With the 5d I'd just lock on at the center point with a half press and then reframe if needed. 

I use EF glass on my GH5 via Metabones adapter (mostly use MF for video work), but I've tried AF for stills and it's not great. The camera seems to do a lot of hunting back and forth before it locks on, and even when it locks on it was always a little bit off. I could get better stills using MF. but it's obviously not convenient for anything moving around fast. 

What REALLY impresses me with the R5 is the continuous AF for video. It's amazing to lock on to a subject with a super shallow DOF (say 50mm 1.4) and watch it stay dead on when pushing forward / pulling back. The eye AF is equally impressive for portrait stills and for video. I didn't have much luck with animal eye AF in my limited testing. For example, the R5 could not find a bird @200mm.

I'm thinking that the S5 is nearly half the price of the R5, and I already have the Ninja V (hello 5.9k ProRes raw!). In addition to that, as much as I love the AF on the R5, I need something I can rely on for professional video. 

If I were in your shoes I would also consider the S1. With the new firmware coming soon it will also do 5.9K ProRes raw externally AND it will do 5.9K internal (not sure of the internal codec yet). The problem with the S5 and an external recorder is the mini HDMI port. The problem with the S1 for me is having to buy the VLOG license key and the screen does not tilt and flip. If you could find a lightly used S1 with the VLOG key already installed that might get you everything you want for a very good price and just add the EF adapter. You will get a nicer EVF, higher res screen, full HDMI port and 5.9K internal for the same price or cheaper than the S5.

The S1 also already has the AF from the S5 with the latest S1 firmware and I can tell you that the AF for photography with the EF lenses that I have tried on the S5 is almost instant. Of course I haven't done extensive testing since I don't use it for photography, but for the few images I have taken with it the AF seems to be the same speed as my 5DIV. You will definitely be giving up Canon's DPAF and Canon's excellent focus peaking system, so it really comes down to what is important to you.

[npc1386]

Thank you! I definitely have a lot to consider. I wish they stuck with full size HDMI on the S5.

[Video Hummus]

R5 doesn’t really even have HDMI in my opinion. It’s not a matter of if the micro hdmi will fail but when. I wouldn’t touch it.

Also, if you will be recording any kind of long from critical content then the R5 is the wrong tool. Buy the S5 with the dual recording slots and unlimited recording. You can still do long from on R5 if you are happy with the 4KLQ output (frankly I am for the few times I will need it).

[npc1386]

The nice thing about the S5 would be 5.9k ProRes raw recording with my Ninja V, but again...micro HDMI!

Looks like if I want full size HDMI, I'll have to pay $500 more for the S1 or $2000 more for the S1H. The S5 is also year newer with some updated tech. Ugh.

[Video Hummus]

1 hour ago, npc1386 said:

The nice thing about the S5 would be 5.9k ProRes raw recording with my Ninja V, but again...micro HDMI!

Looks like if I want full size HDMI, I'll have to pay $500 more for the S1 or $2000 more for the S1H. The S5 is also year newer with some updated tech. Ugh.

I was shocked Panasonic put micro on the S5.

Your options are kinda limited at the $2000 price point for newer camera bodies.

There is always Sony. Can’t speak to adapted EF glass performance on Sony bodies. 

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, npc1386 said:

The nice thing about the S5 would be 5.9k ProRes raw recording with my Ninja V, but again...micro HDMI!

Looks like if I want full size HDMI, I'll have to pay $500 more for the S1 or $2000 more for the S1H. The S5 is also year newer with some updated tech. Ugh.

I'm not really convinced the S5 has newer tech, smaller yes, but same sensor and many of its features are outdone by the S1 (no recording limits in any modes, top screen, etc.) I really think it will come down to if you will use the external monitor a lot. I noticed in your original post you seemed to be mainly using it to try to workaround the R5's limitations....since the S5 has no such limitations you may not even need to use the HDMI port. I don't even own an external recorder and have never felt the need for one. 

I did just notice the S1 uses two different types of memory cards which to me is another strike against it, But also for photography the S1 has a 1/320s flash sync speed which is great if you do a lot of sunset shoots like I do whereas the S5 has a 1/250s flash sync speed. I think you just need to lay out the spec sheets for the R5, S1, and S5 side by side and figure out what is most important to you...of course there's always Sony as well but I know next to nothing about Sony's models except that I don't want one.

[npc1386]

If it weren't for the HDMI issues I'm having with my R5, I probably would hold on to it as it checks the most boxes for me. I spoke to someone at Canon today, and they're planning to get back to me tomorrow. I absolutely hate the idea of sending in a brand new camera for repair, so I'm hoping they'll be willing to offer an exchange for a new body even though I purchased from Best Buy (who will hit me with 15% restocking fee if I try to return / exchange). 

Raw over HDMI sure is enticing with the Panasonic models.. Does anyone know if raw over HDMI is even possible with the R5 / R6? I'm wondering if they're limited by hardware or software. 

ProRes raw @ 5.9k seems like a great alternative to Canon's 8k CRM files. I think the S5 will be my backup option if things can't be resolved with the Canon--for nearly half the price I can pick up the S5 and shoot with it for a couple years. With the way tech is advancing, I'm sure in two years time we'll have a whole slew of new options available! 

Sometimes I wish I were a sound guy 🤑

[npc1386]

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

I noticed in your original post you seemed to be mainly using it to try to workaround the R5's limitations....since the S5 has no such limitations you may not even need to use the HDMI port. I don't even own an external recorder and have never felt the need for one. 

To answer your other point, I actually love using the Ninja V on controlled sets. ProRes 422 and HQ are great codecs--all I, easy to edit, comply with most distribution requirements, etc. And SSD's are relatively cheap per gb as far as storage goes. In addition to that, the Ninja V is easy to view in direct sunlight and has plenty of great features just for monitoring. Coming from a GH5 with full size HDMI, I question the use of micro HDMI in any professional or semi professional camera. 

For on the go b-roll and gimbal work it's definitely nice to have high bitrate all-I options internally.

[herein2020]

20 minutes ago, npc1386 said:

To answer your other point, I actually love using the Ninja V on controlled sets. ProRes 422 and HQ are great codecs--all I, easy to edit, comply with most distribution requirements, etc. And SSD's are relatively cheap per gb as far as storage goes. In addition to that, the Ninja V is easy to view in direct sunlight and has plenty of great features just for monitoring. Coming from a GH5 with full size HDMI, I question the use of micro HDMI in any professional or semi professional camera. 

For on the go b-roll and gimbal work it's definitely nice to have high bitrate all-I options internally.

If you purchased from BestBuy you should just try to take it back immediately. I purchased the R6 from BestBuy and kept it for almost two weeks....took it back told them it overheated too much and got a full refund, no restocking fee. I don't know if the cashier just forgot to charge it, or if the fact that I said it was defective meant there was no fee, but I think it's worth a try.

As far as the R5 and raw over HDMI, I highly doubt Canon will ever allow that, this is the same company that put a fake overheat timer in their cameras then released the C70 two months later, I don't see them ever allowing raw to leave those two cameras.

[npc1386]

Thanks for the tip, I do have extended returns until January, but their website says digital cameras are subjects to 15% restocking fee if the package is opened. Perhaps it being defective will make a difference. I'll see what Canon says tomorrow and I can always try to return to BB. 

Re: raw over HDMI--I'd guess the same unless the folks at Magic Lantern can work their...magic

It looks like the C70 doesn't have any form of raw, internal or external. I suppose I'll need a C500 mk ii if I want it all!

[Emanuel]

Have you tried such mod/trick/workaround?

https://www.eoshd.com/news/magic-lantern-users-create-practical-canon-eos-r5-overheating-timer-workaround/

 

Forum discussion follows here:

 

[gt3rs]

Did you run in to overheating or just afraid based on the huge fuss about it?

Do you feel that your audience will see the difference between HQ and non HQ mode, maybe an A/B test?
As I did not encounter the overheating issue yet.... I feel that having the non HQ mode is more than enough in case it happens. My usage is probably different than yours so it could possibly be that the R5 is not good for you.

To me it does not make too much sense to buy an R5 for using it with an external recorder. You buy an hybrid to have a small package. 

I would get the camera fixed or replaced anyhow.

 

[Video Hummus]

 

3 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Do you feel that your audience will see the difference between HQ and non HQ mode

The quality of the 4KLQ is a tad overblown. Is it worst? Yes, it is. But after some smart sharpening and after YouTube or Vimeo mangles and compresses it for delivery (YouTube more so) the mode is similar to HQ mode on the same delivery platform. You still have to watch out for lowlight and moire issues though.

I wouldn’t have bought the R5 pre 1.1.0 update. After the update it is an a good hybrid camera from Canon with some issues to work around.

I am a bit worried about the delays in the clog3 and lower bitrate RAW update as those two changes will further improve the hybrid-ness of this camera.

3 hours ago, gt3rs said:

To me it does not make too much sense to buy an R5 for using it with an external recorder. You buy an hybrid to have a small package. 

I agree. Part of the reason I settled with the R5 after the firmware update is that it had a internal RAW 8K mode. It is essentially a specialist mode for me to be used when it makes sense. It also takes gorgeous 45MP photos and is just a bit better than the A7RIV for me. Also, all the legacy EF glass goodness and native adapters. 

[npc1386]

11 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Did you run in to overheating or just afraid based on the huge fuss about it?

Do you feel that your audience will see the difference between HQ and non HQ mode, maybe an A/B test?
As I did not encounter the overheating issue yet.... I feel that having the non HQ mode is more than enough in case it happens. My usage is probably different than yours so it could possibly be that the R5 is not good for you.

To me it does not make too much sense to buy an R5 for using it with an external recorder. You buy an hybrid to have a small package. 

I would get the camera fixed or replaced anyhow.

 

I didn't test internal footage long enough to run into overheating, but I hate the idea of setting up for an interview and having to worry about it around the 25min mark.

Re: HQ vs non HQ 4k, no, 90% of the time it won't matter as most of our work ends up living on YT, Vimeo, etc. We also do documentary work and I'm sure our distributor would like the highest quality possible--the HQ downscaled from 8k is definitely a HUGE improvement over regular 4k, and this would likely be noticeable on a larger screen.  

For all B-roll and on-the-go footage I'd be shooting internally. For interviews and any other situations where the camera is on a tripod recording for 20min+ I'd use the external recorder. 

A very nice rep in the cinema department at Canon got back to me today. They ran a bunch of tests using similar equipment to mine and concluded that it is likely my particular camera causing this problem.  I believe it's my HDMI port. Waiting to hear back on next steps now. 

I know we can't ever have it all (unless you want to drop big bucks on a high end cine camera), but I think the R5 would be perfect if it had a full size HDMI port, clog 2 / 3, some form of Cinema RAW light, and was able to send a raw signal over HDMI. It seems that clog 3 and Cinema RAW light might be in the pipeline, but I do wish Canon were more transparent about this.