Beautiful 4K Blackmagic Production Camera footage from James Miller

[theSUBVERSIVE]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned or tested is the global shutter. I think this is where 4K Production camera will blow the GH4 out of the water with it's rolling shutter. Really, this is the main reason I would go with it over the GH4 in my opinion. A good example being: shoot hand held with a very long lens. It will be a mess of jello-vision on the GH4 but look normal on the Production camera. The 4K production camera will also look a lot better when stabilized too. I don't know, I kind of feel like the GH4 and the Black Magic Production camera 4K are going to be used in entierly different situation. Even though they are both going to be very nice and inexpensive 4K cameras, one of for DSLR shooting/run-n-gun while the other might be better suited for film work. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

I think that only in a few specific situations the global shutter will matter that much, even more considering that the full readout should also help provide some improvements for the GH4. For once, if you use OIS, handheld should not be a problem. The main situation in which the global shutter will really matter is fast motion, pans, etc. In those more extreme tests for the rolling shutter it will show whereas the BPC will have none. But I agree, they do have very different purposes.

[austinmcconnell]

 

To be fair, this is two completely different angle setups at two completely different focal lengths, probably using two completely different lenses at completely different focus points. Not very scientific of a test.

 

I could make a GH1 look like it has better resolution than a RED if asked. 

 

Image sharpness, lighting, focus, lens quality, etc. can all make or break an image regardless of resolution. 

[JHines]

come on guys.  the image below is shot with what looks like a lens that is twice the focal length.  obviously the framework on that derelict pier is going to ping more on the image below - it fills twice the amount of imaging area!.  and the image on the bottom appears to me to have seen less subtle sharpening in post.  

 

Finally, depending on the lens and the light source the edges of the framework are going to bleed differently due to the contrast differences between sky and framework.  

 

Those grabs are less than worthless in the debate

Yes the lighting is different. Yes the composition is different. Yes the focal length and compression is different so I applaud you for letting us know all of this. Despite your points, EVERY shot in the BMC4K shot looks inherently softer than anything in the Genesis piece which both were primarily shot with the same Canon 70-200 2.8 IS II lens. That wasn't the only shot I could have used as an example but it was telling to me because I regularly shoot ocean landscapes myself.  Both of these pieces were shot on clear days with light winds. Shooting at longer focal lengths near the ocean typically brings out a milkiness in the image due to sea mist in the air, especially when compressing an image at 200+mm. The BMC shot should have had the advantage being that it was shot 4K and not at 200mm but the 5D3 image just pops even though it was shot at a much longer focal length. Also, in the winter time the air is typically much clearer and less humid than during the summer when there's more humidity, which would again give an advantage to the BMC 4k image.  

 

I'm not alone in thinking this piece was a bit underwhelming with its technical quality but maybe it was the quality of the ND filter affecting the image more than anything. Maybe there was more pollution in the air or something.  Looking forward to Jame's 1DC-BMC4K comparison. Thinking the 1DC will be a clear winner.

[austinmcconnell]

Yes the lighting is different. Yes the composition is different. Yes the focal length and compression is different so I applaud you for letting us know all of this. Despite your points, EVERY shot in the BMC4K shot looks inherently softer than anything in the Genesis piece... 

 

This is the weirdest sentence. It's like a loopable logical fallacy. 

 

Change the word 'despite' to 'because of' and it'll make sense.  :lol:

[TBEagle2]

How can people rag on a camera with just one video. I personally like these two better than this one.

[Oliver Daniel]

I'm not overly impressed with James MIllers Blackmagic video. Thats not to say its a very capable camera, but minus the global shutter, I much prefer the more filmic image of the BMCC and BMPCC. 

[Homerus]

I'm not that awe struck either, but I'm not judging that fast. That being said, I've never found many video's made with the BMCC 2.5k or BMPCC that I liked. 5D is a different story. This is, I think, the main difference:

 

BMCC: Made to look like film

 

5D RAW: 25 frames of actual photographs (which is what the 5D was build for)

 

It's just personal preference

[thedest]

I think that the main problem is the way that the "pros" grade the footage. They always grade the videos with a soft look, a lot of glow and washed out colors. It looks like they like to recreate that old damaged-film look.

 

I dont know, maybe thats because im young, but I dont like things that look old. Whats the point of buying a high end camera if all of your videos will look like that? I understand doing that once in a while, to create a "look", but every time? And when you are "reviewing" a camera, you need to show its potential, and the videos posted by those guys are not the best way to do that.

 

Here is an example. This first image was graded by James Miller. Most people wouldnt buy a camera that creates that kind of look.

 

 

And here is the same video graded by me. Why cant they post videos with natural looking colors and sharp details?

 

[mtheory]

Let's not forget that James is a master grader who made 5D H264 footage look incredibly film-like long before RAW showed up, so I suspect the softness and the muted colors in this latest video are very much intentional, and result of his grade.

 

I remember seeing him being dissed around on various forums for his 'aggressive' visual style, so perhaps he decided to scale back in response? I hope it is only temporary, as I very much love his visual approach, which he perfected with Genesis. 

 

As for BM4K, I am still on the original NAB-date pre-order but will reserve my judgement until RAW update comes out.

[Andrew Reid]

come on guys.  the image below is shot with what looks like a lens that is twice the focal length.  obviously the framework on that derelict pier is going to ping more on the image below - it fills twice the amount of imaging area!.  and the image on the bottom appears to me to have seen less subtle sharpening in post.  

 

Finally, depending on the lens and the light source the edges of the framework are going to bleed differently due to the contrast differences between sky and framework.  

 

Those grabs are less than worthless in the debate

 

Not to mention they are comparing 720p streaming on Vimeo, when they should be comparing the 4K prores to 5D's 1080p raw.

 

Madness!

[Andrew Reid]

Let's not forget that James is a master grader who made 5D H264 footage look incredibly film-like long before RAW showed up, so I suspect the softness and the muted colors in this latest video are very much intentional, and result of his grade.

 

They're intentional and the time of year has a lot to do with it. Trust me the UK in Winter does not look like Australia's gold coast!!

[thedest]

Not to mention they are comparing 720p streaming on Vimeo, when they should be comparing the 4K prores to 5D's 1080p raw.

 

Madness!

 

Your point is correct. But the users are also correct.

 

They are not talking about the amount of detail, they are talking about the PERCEIVED detail. To get a nice looking image you have to know how to ballance the amount of detail captured and the amount of local contrast (sharpening).

 

Most people still use 1080p displays. In my 4k display, I can clearly see the difference in the amount of detail between the 4k prores and a 1080p video, but once you watch both videos on a 1080p display, the difference is not that big. Why? Because if you have a lot of detail and you dont add LOCAL CONTRAST (some people call it sharpening), your detail wont be noticeable.

 

So its totally fair to say that, on a 1080p display, a 1080p raw video from a 5D can "LOOK" more "detailed" than that 4k ProRes video. In reality it wont have more detail, but this detail will be hidden by the lack of local contrast.

 

I dont like oversharpening, but that video is too soft. I know that its a UHD video, but the average person watching that video wont be impressed. And we make videos for the average person.

[CaptainHook]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned or tested is the global shutter. I think this is where 4K Production camera will blow the GH4 out of the water with it's rolling shutter. Really, this is the main reason I would go with it over the GH4 in my opinion. A good example being: shoot hand held with a very long lens. 

 

James Tonkin's video shows rolling shutter (or lack of) pretty well i think.. And my video that was also posted in this thread has a TON of shots at 200mm shoulder rig with no IS enabled. :)

 

They're intentional and the time of year has a lot to do with it. Trust me the UK in Winter does not look like Australia's gold coast!!

Pros and cons, the summer sun right now here in NZ is BRUTAL and HARSH and Australia is not too different. We have no layer of smog helping to soften our skies like LA or London. :P

[JHines]

Not to mention they are comparing 720p streaming on Vimeo, when they should be comparing the 4K prores to 5D's 1080p raw.

 

Madness!

Where have you seen the 4K prores original file of this entire piece? Madness that I can't watch an imaginary 4K prores file of the entire piece (not one clip from the entire edit uploaded to wetransfer) that you seem to have watched. Read what thedest has posted, he actually comprehended and fully understood what I had to say. 

[Leica50mm]

And that's with an Otus?  Wow, i'll take my 1DC any old day . I love this camera!

[Leica50mm]

Compare it with this video he shot at 1080 with Canon 1DC Zeiss Otus  and a Atmos Pro Res recorder :

[JHines]

Compare it with this video he shot at 1080 with Canon 1DC and a Atmos Pro Res recorder :

Looks incredibly detailed. This was shot on a much cloudier day and with way more swell in the ocean, making for much mistier conditions yet it still looks night and day sharper than the BMC4K piece. 

[dahlfors]

I'm not sure if people are noticing or not, that the BMC video has very narrow depth of field on almost every shot. So you're mainly looking at footage where the majority of the image isn't in focus. Additionally, being a 720p vimeo video.

 

Not the video I'd pick for trying to judge "perceived sharpness"...

[Ernesto Mantaras]

 

Where have you seen the 4K prores original file of this entire piece? Madness that I can't watch an imaginary 4K prores file of the entire piece (not one clip from the entire edit uploaded to wetransfer) that you seem to have watched. Read what thedest has posted, he actually comprehended and fully understood what I had to say. 

 

 

Yet you started this thing by comparing a 720p video from the BMPC and a 1080p video from the 5D. At least rethink your arguments over a new comparison either having them both at 720p or both at 1080p and see how it holds up.

[TBEagle2]

Not to mention they are comparing 720p streaming on Vimeo, when they should be comparing the 4K prores to 5D's 1080p raw.

 

Madness!

The uncrompressed download is madness!