Z6 - full frame budget hybrid king?

lebigmac · December 29, 2020

It's great to have a lively discussion here now and I would like to narrow it a bit down to the original purpose of this thread. This was, basically: Is the Z6 a good contender for making videos (in a 50% hybrid* usage scheme) considering the second hand price around 1000€ (in average 300€ below a used A7iii) ?
I got virtually no feedback on video work experiences with the Z6 from the EOHD crowd, that's likely because - I assume - that very few of the professionals and enthusiasts on this forum have considered it at all.
I bought it anyway, for a 1000€, and I'll continue to share my experiences here. Until this point, my impression is that this camera was not designed with videographers in mind, and it seems to be more of a marketing decision to promote it otherwise. But I'll see. I'd be happy to read more from others who owned it/could compare it.
Moreover, it is worth discussing alternatives. Focus on budget, from what was mentiones here, I'd say:
- S1 (1500 €) - very capable, but slightly out of price range and maybe too heavy for a 'carry around' hybrid?
- A7sII (1000€) - wouldn't a A7III for € 1300 preferable, what about the orig. A7s (~500€)?)

*8bit would be enough if the camera is portable, delivers natural colours out of the box in a standard profile, offers nevertheless sufficient DR flexibility for contrasty scenes with a flat profile, and is useable up until 6400. Think of, what a small agency does (not a commercial ad production company), i.e. interviews, presentation of locations and physical products + reportage (covering public events, gatherings, demonstrations, hand held).

kye · December 29, 2020

I thought quite a few folks here liked the images from the Z6 but maybe the timing wasn't right for people to actually get one. Certainly, the colour from Fuji on their latest cameras is very nice, and the eterna colour profile is very nice indeed.

MrSMW · December 29, 2020

If the II model had been launched as the original, it would have been a lot more popular, but then the same could be said for a lot of kit, but for many, the original Z6 just underwhelmed (compared with certain other options).

Had something like the II been launched a couple of years back, I probably would have gone with it but it was only the lack of 4K 60 and twin card slots that put me off. The lack of 10 bit also, but that would have been my compromise.

Well it’s still 8 bit, internal anyway and folks are waiting on the 4K 60, so still losing customers I suspect.

Anyway, original Z6 at what are now much lower than launch prices...I like the look of the thing, the size, the weight, the lenses. Tried one briefly, but preferred the XT3 in every way except the lack of IBIS and the XT4 fixed that.

So it’s not for me personally, but that shouldn’t put anyone else off and if you like it, great, go create with it!

Video Hummus · December 29, 2020

1 hour ago, kye said:

I thought quite a few folks here liked the images from the Z6 but maybe the timing wasn't right for people to actually get one. Certainly, the colour from Fuji on their latest cameras is very nice, and the eterna colour profile is very nice indeed.

It's kinda odd indeed. The Z6II is a pretty solid camera. However, the Z6II is the camera Nikon should have released from day one. 8-bit internal only is not a deal breaker since Nikon has great color, imho. Also, the whole ProRes fiasco felt half-baked and l'm sure left a sour taste in many peoples mouths waiting for it.

lebigmac · December 29, 2020

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

If the II model had been launched as the original, it would have been a lot more popular, but then the same could be said for a lot of kit, but for many, the original Z6 just underwhelmed (compared with certain other options).

Well, apart from the 4k60p option, my understanding is that there's not a big difference in video capabilities between mark I and II. Raw option is line skipped on both devices, I think.

SteveV4D · December 29, 2020

It is impossible to take Nikon seriously for video. Its an extra, nothing more. I give them credit for allowing external BRAW recording; something other manufacturers should seriously look into. Yet Nikon have not given video the full attention that other manufacturers like Fuji, Panasonic and even Canon have done. That's their choice and for better or for worse, its one they will have to live with.

Oddly, its Nikon that got me into Mirrorless video with their first DSLR that shot video. It was poor quality 720p, but it got me hooked.

IronFilm · December 30, 2020

3 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

Oddly, its Nikon that got me into Mirrorless video with their first DSLR that shot video. It was poor quality 720p, but it got me hooked.

You're not the only one!
First DSLR I owned: Nikon D50
First HDSLR that I used: (my GF's) Nikon D90

Evgeniy · January 6, 2021

Nikon is amazing if you do both photos and video. Beautiful image and great handling. If you're only interested in video there are better options, unless you don't mind using external recorder.

lebigmac · January 8, 2021

On 12/27/2020 at 12:26 PM, lebigmac said:

Maybe, the Z6 is not everyones priority here, but I'll leave my evolving observations here to whom it may concern:

- Surprisingly bulky and quite heavy, the weight is distributed towards the left side, which makes it outspokenly unbalanced and difficult to hold it with one hand over an extended period of time. Moreso with manual lenses & adapter.
- The hand grip is not not thought out designed. It's not 'high' enough for a normal sized hand. That is why you'll find a lot of used models where the coating is damaged next to the grip. It's because you find yourself clawing your fingernails into it.

Grip and weight distribution is MUCH better on the A7 or the NX1.

- Focus peaking works very well, esp. in the great EVF. However, there is no way to toggle it on and off with the press of a button. You are entitled to assign the focus peaking menu to a function button, but you'll have got through this menu every time then, which results in about four clicks to put it on or off. This is quite annoying.
- You can't use zebras while focus peaking is on.
- The on screen spirit level is placed in the center on the screen, with a huge fat black ring around it. You literally don't see anything else of the picture, when it's on.

There is a dedicated video mode on that camera, however:
- Exposure lock only works in stills mode, but not in video mode! There is - however - another way to lock exposure, which also works in video mode, by pressing and holding the jog dial (or a function) button. This might be convenient for stills, but not while filming
- The only way to set the shutter speed in video mode is "M", in all others, the camera choses 'something' that can't be altered.
- There is 24p but no 1/48

After a little more into the menu, one correction and more observations:
- You can actually lock exposure properly, other than stated above. This one is set in the video tab of the menu (not in the general function buttons setting) - in the video tab you'll find a separate menu with the option to assign a few functions to some buttons.
- In stills mode, there a several options for auto exposure: matrix (whole area), center weighted, spot and highlight weighted. In video mode, however, you are limited to: matrix, center weighted and highlight weighted, means, that there is no way to measure an specific area other than than the center.
- You can attach an usb-cable to the camera and to the computer, and it is possible to drag files from the camera with it. The camera is not a proper USB drive on Nikon cameras, which means you can't put files on the camera card directly. This means, you'll definitely need an (cfexpress) card reader (which costs around another 60€) in order to update the camera with a new firmware.
- You can charge the battery while it's inside the camera with the help of the usb-cable. But you'll need a really powerful usb charger for that (5V, 15W). My Ipad charger didnt work, for instance.

FHDcrew · May 30, 2022

Well it’s 2022 now, and seems like I’m the only person using this camera for video. Everyone likes to use a Sony a7sIII or a Canon R5C. The Z6 provides an interesting feature set for those who cannot afford a more expensive option. At an affordable price it has what I call the “triple Goldilocks” featureset. That is, this camera is full frame, has 10 bit 4k, and has very respectable phase-detect autofocus.

This camera desperately needs an external recorder. Without one the camera seems pointless for video. You lose both 10 bit and log, a big smack in the face. The internal files lack dynamic range. I’ve gotten decent results with the neutral picture profile and the contrast dialed down a tad, but lighting needs to be optimal. Highlight rolloff is terrible and I’d honestly prefer Sony A7iii 8 bit because we at least have somewhat useable log.

However, if you do hook up an external recorder, you are in for a treat. You get full frame 10 bit 4k. You get a really nice log profile with solid DR, great highlight retention, and a gentle rolloff. You can pick up a Ninja V plus a used Z6 body for sub $2000. This puts you in similar territory to the S5, but you get better autofocus that I think is very useable with the right lenses.

N-log grades quite well in post. It responds well to overexposure. For interview shots I put middle gray at 50 IRE instead of the recommended 35 IRE. For run and gun I just look at my scopes and make sure the image is overexposed by a good amount without clipping.

For grading, Nikon’s 3D LUT is horrendous. It’s better than nothing, but it seems to ruin the solid highlight rolloff of N-log. You also get a purple tint thrown in for free. It is much better to use the color space transfer in Davinci Resolve. This gets you clean, accurate color. If you overexpose the shot, a great way to bring things back is to use Resolve’s HDR panel by setting it’s color space and gamma to rec2020/N-log. Then use the “global” slider to bring your exposure down. You don’t have to use any other HDR wheels, just adjust your exposure here. Then go back to your primaries in a new node, and grade as normal. Voila!

There is a hidden feature of this camera. With an external recorder you can get beautiful over sampled 1080p. By default the 1080 is pixel binning trash. Looks like an EOS R. But set your record setting to 4k, and then in the HDMI settings select 1080p. Now it’s downsampling the full sensor readout further, to output a 1080 signal. This works with the Ninja V, giving you easier times in post and 1/4 file size. It also opens the option to use the lovely Atomos Ninja Star. I just bought that thing. Paired with the oversampled 1080 hack, this is a killer combo. You still get the full frame 10 bit log, good autofocus, and detailed image. But now you have a tiny external recorder that sips through battery and adds little weight to the camera. The camera feels more compact and is much lighter. For me I’m happy with a clean 1080p image, and slo mo is rare for my work. As such, this setup works well…if you can manage to find a ninja star. I could fit a whole day shooting onto a 256GB CFast card, no problem. I use the ninja star most often. When I need 4k or slow motion, I switch to the Ninja V.

The camera landscape has changed since I got it. When I bought the camera, if I wanted the aforementioned features and internal 10 bit, I would have been forced to pick up the overheating Canon R6, which was out of my price range. I could have sacrificed autofocus and gotten the Panasonic S5. That camera is better in every way, except for the autofocus and it’s micro hdmi. The Z6 has a somewhat better mini HDMI. I could have also sacrificed sensor size to get a Fuji XT4. That honestly would have been a good option, I sometimes wish I went that route.

Nowadays, if you can afford a Canon R6 or A7iv (and can get decent glass and lighting equipment so your stuff doesn’t look crappy) I would get it over the Z6. I’m not a fan of being tied to an external recorder, and the Ninja V adds too much weight for me.

However, if you can’t seem to afford a R6 or an A7iv, and you want one of the best full frame images WITH GOOD AUTOFOCUS, a used Z6 and an external recorder is worth considering.

FHDcrew · May 31, 2022