Michael1 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Maybe someone can clear this up, because I am not seeing how Black Magic's sensor is Super 35 size. Width of Super 35 = 24.89mm based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35_mm_film Width of BMPC Sensor = 22.12. Which width is correct for Super 35? Thanks! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Cunningham Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It's unfortunately a transposition of the common acceptance of loose or sloppy definitions found in the DSLR world, making the mistake of applying it to an actual standard. Super 35, the buzzword for Full Silent App, is 24.89mm across, period. It's more accurate to say it's an APS-C sensor, but that's not sexy and it doesn't make an immediate connection to movie making. Their marketing department makes the leap that since Super-35 falls smack in the middle of the 8mm of slop, er, variation present in the APS-C spec, therefore an APS-C sized format, that APS-C also equals Super-35, which is wrong. A goose and a duck are both water foul but a goose is not a duck. BMD isn't alone or unique in making this improper correlation. Almost none of the chips with the label "Super 35" are actually the proper size. They're all within the APS-C "zone" however. They should just say "35mm" but it doesn't have the same impact without the "Super" attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Width of Super 35 = 24.89mm Width of BMPC Sensor = 22.12 Close enough for a PR release. Sean Cunningham 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablogrollan Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Close enough for a PR release. I agree. Nevertheless, those are silly lies, the consumer is not stupid and Blackmagic should know better. It's closer to traditional 1.85 35mm format, which is not use for a long time. Nothing to do with APS-C either, which sports a much taller sensor. In my opinion, it is more like a beefed up M4/3 sensor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Well, yes, They are not technically identical in size, but really, come on, they're all about the same size really, and will work the same in the field. Some people are more strict about terms, like those who get angry when 3890X2160 is called 4K, I am just not one of those people, I find that for most people describing the BM sensor as s35 gives them an appropriate estimation of its size, while saying it's 22.1mm wide would not get much understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Cunningham Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I agree. Nevertheless, those are silly lies, the consumer is not stupid and Blackmagic should know better.... As I said, it's not a Blackmagic phenomenon. And do you think "consumers" of the Sony F65 are smarter? It's close but no cigar, and perhaps making it exact just isn't possible. Worse is they claim it's more like shooting 65mm. Marketing departments are often without shame for all of these cameras. It's closer to traditional 1.85 35mm format, which is not use for a long time. Nothing to do with APS-C either, which sports a much taller sensor. In my opinion, it is more like a beefed up M4/3 sensor... The spec is based on horizontal size, not vertical, at least in a motion picture context. It may not have even been in their mind but my point is it's a spec with a lot of slop and "consumers" seem very used to and okay with this and more of these consumers versus high end shooters are who the camera is being marketed to. It's within a decimal of the Canon 7D's sensor size: All APS-C variants are considerably smaller than 35 mm standard film which measures 36×24 mm. Sensor sizes range from 20.7×13.8 mm to 28.7×19.1 mm. Each variant results in a slightly different angle of view from lenses at the same focal length and overall a much narrower angle of view compared to 35 mm film. This is why each manufacturer offers a range of lenses designed for its format. ...so, it doesn't matter what you consider the size to be, it's an APS-C sized sensor in reality. In that world, if 35mm film were as loosey-goosey they would be perfectly fine claiming Super 35. It's being maybe a little pedantic calling them out on it but that kind of "close enough" would have made any product DOA if it were designed for film production. Film standards are rigid to hundredths of a millimeter. They don't change for decades and when they do it's a big deal because it affects more than just the fellow shooting the pictures. The GH2 is an actual "beefed up" MFT sensor. That one mm makes a difference when planning on certain purchases. 8mm of variation (APS-C) is a lot. I find that for most people describing the BM sensor as s35 gives them an appropriate estimation of its size, while saying it's 22.1mm wide would not get much understanding. That depends on who's talking. Someone who's spent a lot of time working with motion picture film should be quite comfortable with the 22.1mm figure. Say that to them and they'll know, "oh, it's close to Super 35". When you say something is Super 35 size that says to them, "oh, it's 24.89mm" or "oh, it's .980 inches" and that gives them the wrong impression. Telling someone who isn't familiar with film production that it's Super 35 will either send them to google or they'll assume, "oh, it's APS-C" size, if they're more initiated. That's the trap. Those that really understand what Super 35 is know what it is specifically and what it has always been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I agree. Nevertheless, those are silly lies, the consumer is not stupid and Blackmagic should know better. It's closer to traditional 1.85 35mm format, which is not use for a long time. Nothing to do with APS-C either, which sports a much taller sensor. In my opinion, it is more like a beefed up M4/3 sensor... Close enough for a PR release and close enough for me, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael1 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Thanks for the responses guys! I'm a bit disappointed with Black Magic on this. Their sensor is over 11% smaller than the Super 35 they make such a big deal about on their website. Two or three percent, OK. But 11%? Geez! It makes we wonder what else they are fudging the numbers on. Does the battery really last for 90 minutes of shooting? :rolleyes: I think it is always better to over deliver than under deliver. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Cunningham Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Canon does the same thing with the C300, for instance. On the C500 they're well over the size of Super 35, not quite as big as RED but they're still calling it a Super 35 CMOS. Sony does it on the FS700. And the F3. And the F5. And the F55. And the F65. Even Arri calls the Alexa a Super 35 sensor at 23.76mm across (though they have a new "Open Gate" mode on some models that can open up beyond the viewfinder's view to record 3.5k with the full 28.17mm sensor width). So, don't be so hard on BMD. Everybody's doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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